Help me understand the whole Meszaros deal...

[Daily Special]

this from HF report:

"Meszaros also had a key role for the Slovaks at the WJC20, although, surprisingly, he struggled during that tournament."


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[swiftwin]

Speaking of senators first-rounders, anybody have any idea what happened to Jakub Klepis? I know he was traded for Varada. But last I heard, he wasnt doing so well...

 

[flyercide]

So basically my question is why in god's name did he fall to 23 overall in that draft? Did he show up to the combine overweight? Did his attitude piss people off during the interview process? What's the deal? Every year there is always a great talent that falls for various reasons (skating, size, attitude) but there just doesn't seem to be any logical explanation on Meszaros not getting picked earlier in a so-so draft.

nice post. i can think of one explanation... tunnel vision. the teams already had a list made of players they planned to pick or wanted in the first round.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

He wasn't considered outstanding in any area, really. The book at the time was that he was a poised, intelligent player but not really gritty, not overly skilled, and not particularly big. The thinking from a lot of people at the time was that he lacked upside as a result. I remember someone comparing him to Radislav Suchy - smart and serviceable, but more of a depth player. Obviously his abilities were very under-rated by almost everyone at the time. Especially his grit and defensive intensity.

I think this pretty much nails it (no surprise given who wrote it). I think it is fair most teams liked Meszaros, but there was always someone on the board they loved. I'm sure his name was mentioned often, but got passed over because some head scout was passionate about another prospect (including many of those mentioned).

Really, I've been very surprised by how solid Meszaros has been. He is mature well beyond his years and there is no real weakness to his game. I think his upside is that of a #1/#2 d-man on the top pairing, which is major turn around given a month ago I was advocating sending him to Bingo. Hell, they've paired him with Redden of late and he has looked at home. He made fade a bit, but we've seen enough to know he will be a big part of the Sens top 4 over the next 10 years.

As to Havlat, he was seen as soft and one-dimensional by many NHL scouts and fell accordingly. Actually, it's not the first time CSB was RIGHT when it comes to Europeans. Havlat was rated right after the Sedins by CSB amongst Euros, but fell much further behind the likes of Rita, Koltsov, Safranov, Cerada and Kuleshov. If only Gms would have given more weight to CSB. Interestingly, Hossa was similarly rated high by CSB (ranked 2nd to Jokinen amongst Euros in his draft year), but in other rankings (Hockey News etc.) was ranked behind the likes of Riesen and several other North Americans in the 20's. Thankfully the Sens disagreed.

 

[Grizz MacArthur]

Speaking of senators first-rounders, anybody have any idea what happened to Jakub Klepis? I know he was traded for Varada. But last I heard, he wasnt doing so well...

Good point - he was drafted 16th overall by the Sens in the 2002 draft, which will reportedly go down as one of the worst draft years in memory. He was traded to Buffalo for Varada and a 5th round pick, then traded to Washington for Mike Grier. His numbers have so far been very unimpressive in North America, and it doesn't appear as though he'll turn into a regular NHL contributor.

I don't think the drafting of Klepis is really a black mark on the Sens drafting record, however, because the 2002 draft is considered to be a weak year. It doesn't appear many of the players drafted after Klepis will be stars in the NHL at this point. The Sens drafting of Meszaros, Volchenkov and Havlat in the 20's along with their other late round steals (Alfredsson, Rachunek, Salo) makes their scouting staff one of the best in the NHL.

 

[sk84fun_dc]

Speaking of senators first-rounders, anybody have any idea what happened to Jakub Klepis? I know he was traded for Varada. But last I heard, he wasnt doing so well...

He was traded from Sabres to the Caps for Mike Grier during the Caps firesale at the end at the 03-04 season trade deadline. Currently playing for Hershey Bears (Caps AHl affiliate) after playing for the Caps old affiliate, Portland Pirates, last season. He was one of many that struggled under the defensive system Army had them playing last season. New affiliate, new coach, tons of opportunity for the future in Washington if he can upgrade his defensive game from what I have heard.


http://stats.theahl.com/stats/player.php?id=159

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid=62529

 

[BlueAndWhite]

I don't think the drafting of Klepis is really a black mark on the Sens drafting record, however, because the 2002 draft is considered to be a weak year. It doesn't appear many of the players drafted after Klepis will be stars in the NHL at this point. The Sens drafting of Meszaros, Volchenkov and Havlat in the 20's along with their other late round steals (Alfredsson, Rachunek, Salo) makes their scouting staff one of the best in the NHL.

Alexander Steen, Cam Ward and Hannu Toivonen would have something to say about that.

As well, it appears that Gordon, Grebeshkov, Paille, Bergenheim and Babchuk are more promising at this point than Klepis. Those are just the first rounders.

Players like Matt Stajan, Matt Lombardi and Jarett Stoll are already solid NHL players.

It seems that many drafts are categorized as being weak, when in reality they are not.

2002 has already given us Rick Nash, Kari Lehtonen, Jay Bouwmeester, Joni Pitkanen, Keith Ballard, Steve Eminger, Alexander Semin, Joffrey Lupul and P.M. Bouchard from the first 15 selections.

 

[Grizz MacArthur]

Alexander Steen, Cam Ward and Hannu Toivonen would have something to say about that.

As well, it appears that Gordon, Grebeshkov, Paille, Bergenheim and Babchuk are more promising at this point than Klepis. Those are just the first rounders.

Players like Matt Stajan, Matt Lombardi and Jarett Stoll are already solid NHL players.

It seems that many drafts are categorized as being weak, when in reality they are not.

2002 has already given us Rick Nash, Kari Lehtonen, Jay Bouwmeester, Joni Pitkanen, Keith Ballard, Steve Eminger, Alexander Semin, Joffrey Lupul and P.M. Bouchard from the first 15 selections.

Do you really want to get in who the Leafs could of drafted over the years? It's clear the Leafs scouting staff pales in comparison to the Sens. The 2002 draft was very top heavy but wasn't and won't ever be considered a deep draft. I believe Lombardi and Stoll were re-entrants to the draft as well in 2002. I will admit the Leafs did a good job in picking Stajan in the 2nd round though - he's a real nice player.

Also, you refer to Gordon, Grebeshkov, Paille, Bergenheim and Babchuk - do you think any of those players will become stars in the NHL? I thought not.

 

[The HW]

Do you really want to get in who the Leafs could of drafted over the years? It's clear the Leafs scouting staff pales in comparison to the Sens. The 2002 draft was very top heavy but wasn't and won't ever be considered a deep draft. I believe Lombardi and Stoll were re-entrants to the draft as well in 2002. I will admit the Leafs did a good job in picking Stajan in the 2nd round though - he's a real nice player.

Also, you refer to Gordon, Grebeshkov, Paille, Bergenheim and Babchuk - do you think any of those players will become stars in the NHL? I thought not.

This isn't a pissing match, and there was no suggestion that the Sens were slighted in any way. B&W did rightly suggest that there was some decent talent mined from the '02 draft.

Klepis just hasn't worked out. I'm glad we got rid of him when he had value, because his stock has really fallen over the years -- he was never really hyped in the first place, I don't think.

 

[NyQuil]

Do you really want to get in who the Leafs could of drafted over the years? It's clear the Leafs scouting staff pales in comparison to the Sens.

His point was that the 2002 draft wasn't as bad as it appears, not that the Leafs have a fantastic drafting record. Let's not jump to bashing the Leafs without due cause.

When it comes to that particular year, Toronto did get the better player(s).

Often we don't know the true value of a particular draft year for at least 5 years.

 

[bert]

Ottawa took Kaigorodov in the 2nd round if he does come over to North America that should make up for the Klepis selection.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

Do you really want to get in who the Leafs could of drafted over the years? It's clear the Leafs scouting staff pales in comparison to the Sens. The 2002 draft was very top heavy but wasn't and won't ever be considered a deep draft. I believe Lombardi and Stoll were re-entrants to the draft as well in 2002. I will admit the Leafs did a good job in picking Stajan in the 2nd round though - he's a real nice player.

Also, you refer to Gordon, Grebeshkov, Paille, Bergenheim and Babchuk - do you think any of those players will become stars in the NHL? I thought not.

He wasn't criticizing the Sens drafting, he was jointing pointing out there are several solid prospects from that draft, including many of the players you referenced above. Eaves, Meszaros, Gleason and Lee may never be 'stars' either, but that won't mean they're busts. Same goes for those five prospects - all solid players teams would take ahead of Klepis at this point without hesitation.

It's ok if Klepis wasn't a great pick by the Sens - partly due to the Sens drafting record - which is unquestioned - and partly due to the fact they moved Klepis for Varada, which was a good deal.

 

[Grizz MacArthur]

His point was that the 2002 draft wasn't as bad as it appears,

In my eyes, 2002 was clearly a weak draft year - it appears at this point to be the worst draft since 1999 (which perhaps is almost as bad as 1996). Is the 2002 draft any better than the 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004 or 2005 draft? I don't think so, which would make it a weak draft, no?

 

[Bileur]

IIRC Klepis was litterally one of Havlat's best friends back home, I think that influenced their selection.

 

[Epsilon]

Funny that with all this talk about Klepis, he just scored his first NHL goal.

 

[swiftwin]

Funny that with all this talk about Klepis, he just scored his first NHL goal.

Yea, when I saw that, the first thing I thought of was this thread. He was on the shootout too.

 

[Ismellofhockey]

I think what illustrates MS's point best is Atlanta. Remembering an HF article before the draft interviewing Don Waddell (Holly?) the article stated that when no one on the board jumped up at them, they went with a player who had an exceptional attribute, in this case Valabik (not a surprising pick when you look at Atlanta's draft history).
A lot of teams didn't see anything extra special in Meszaros, he was a "safe" pick.
You can't really blame Buffalo, Stafford looks like a good pick too, Atlanta is high on giant defencemen, Minnesota went with the hometown boy who was also supposedly more offensively gifted (one of their needs), Gainey in Montreal had addressed size and character up the middle as an organisational weakness and large gifted centres don't grow on trees either... every team had its reason.

 

[Greg7]

It is positively shocking to me that scouts didn't see anything special about Meszaros. I'm no scout, but even after only his first four or five games in Vancouver last season it was painfully obvious that he was an excellent defenseman. I have absolutely NO clue how he ever got a label as soft or not physical enough, that's just plain weird. He must have gone through a major transformation over the summer after being drafted; it just astounds me that he didn't go higher.

I believe it when I'm told that scouts didn't see anything special (what else can I believe?), but it really knocks my socks off. It's not like I saw him three years after being drafted when he'd grown a whole bunch as a player, I'm talking about a few months after his draft. Heavy shot with a great release, an obvious command of the game when he's on the ice, physically imposing, aggressive, strong, mobile, fantastic first pass... really the only complaint I had was his occasional positional errors in his own zone and running out of position to hit. I thought he was one of the best 3 or 4 defensemen in the WHL last year, and there were plenty of great dmen. I was shocked he went so low after first seeing him in Vancouver, and I'm still shocked. Even the best talent evaluators mess it up sometimes, it's just so strange that all of them messed up on the same guy.

 

[Spezza]

IIRC Klepis was litterally one of Havlat's best friends back home, I think that influenced their selection.

Yep, thats right I remember reading about that too.

 

[Grizz MacArthur]

Funny that with all this talk about Klepis, he just scored his first NHL goal.

I told you the Senators knew how to draft.

 

[Don Draper]

In my eyes, 2002 was clearly a weak draft year - it appears at this point to be the worst draft since 1999 (which perhaps is almost as bad as 1996). Is the 2002 draft any better than the 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004 or 2005 draft? I don't think so, which would make it a weak draft, no?

At the time it was seen as a weak draft, but talent has definitely come out of it already. It doesnt matter whether it compares to the drafts around it, you judge a draft by the talent that comes out of it. If there is talent, you cant specify a draft as weak by comparison, its just not as strong. 96, VERY WEAK, 99 very weak, 02 middle of the road.