Hellebuyck is on his way to win his 3rd Vezina in 6 years

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Care to expand?
The fans were very happy to have him in our system.
He chose to not even try to play for the team when there was a clear path to a key role this year or next.
Instead he worked his way to the AHL for a team headed for a rebuild.
Go check with our roster and see if they agree with this weird assessment.

He wanted to have a chance to play in the NHL. Your team wouldn't even commit to the appearance that he'd get a chance in the NHL. They were so completely against it.

Pittsburgh said they'd give him a legit shot to play in the NHL, and they kept their word when he made their team to start the season. Seems pretty straight forward.

 

[Johnny HFBOARDS]

He's the best regular season goalie in the league but this year he must show that he has what it takes in the playoffs, too.

Actually I heard he's gonna mail it in and be on the Stanley Cup champ team, weird but true.

 

[Johnny HFBOARDS]

Decent chance to be the best American goalie of all time

Nice stat but that's like being the hottest Denny's waitress...

 

[PhilJets]

He’s hard to view as one of the best goalies ever.

His playoff stats suck and he’s always played for a great defensive team that inflates his stats. Some of these analytical websites don’t even have him with the best goaltending analytics this year. His counting stats are amazing and that’s why he’ll win it.

One of the best of his era, sure.

Really?

 

[Xerloris]

That's crazy, how many cups does he have in that time frame?

 

[Thechozen1]

He wanted to have a chance to play in the NHL. Your team wouldn't even commit to the appearance that he'd get a chance in the NHL. They were so completely against it.

Pittsburgh said they'd give him a legit shot to play in the NHL, and they kept their word when he made their team to start the season. Seems pretty straight forward.

What’s straight forward is teams shouldn’t make any guarantees. Players need to earn their opportunities. He saw the competition in front of him and took his skates and stick elsewhere.

 

[BattleLevel]

He’s hard to view as one of the best goalies ever.

His playoff stats suck and he’s always played for a great defensive team that inflates his stats. Some of these analytical websites don’t even have him with the best goaltending analytics this year. His counting stats are amazing and that’s why he’ll win it.

One of the best of his era, sure.

Admittedly, I’m not the most familiar with goalie analytics as some people on this board. Which stats have him rated outside the best?

 

[ijuka]

Admittedly, I’m not the most familiar with goalie analytics as some people on this board. Which stats have him rated outside the best?

He's pretty clearly the best overall goalie in the league judging by various goalie stats, traditional or advanced. You'd need to seriously stretch it to argue someone else over him right now.

 

[cneely]

He’s hard to view as one of the best goalies ever.

His playoff stats suck

HIs playoff challenges are overstated. He's had a couple of bad years, but he's also had years of .922 (17 games) and .931 (8 games).

Overall, despite 2 really bad years, including last year, his career numbers in the playoffs are .911 and 2.85 GAA. Room for improvement for sure, and not up to his regular season numbers, but they certainly don't suck.

Bobrovsky, for example, is a career .905 in the playoffs.

 

[Jets4Life]

I thought a Russian would pull this out first to be honest. Amazing for helle and he unbelievable. But he now needs to win something big.. a best on best Olympics or Stanley Cup. Add that to the resume and we got hof thread next.

In fairness, he was the best goalie in the 4 Nations Cup, and would have been the USA MVP, had the US won in the final, so it's encouraging. I agree that Helle has to come up big in the playoffs too. He did have success earlier in his career, in the 2018 and 2021 playoffs, and actually put up better numbers than Binnington in 2019, when the Blues won the Cup.

The last couple of years have been hard to watch him be pedestrian in the playoffs.

 

[cneely]

It’s a figure of speech. I don’t need to deal with the grammar police. I see that’s what you want to do, so you know you’re fighting a losing battle when you can’t address the substance of the argument and need to try to parse one freaking word you didn’t like.

The substance of the argument is whether or not he's always played for excellent defensive teams that "prop up his stats".

He hasn't.

 

[Czechboy]

In fairness, he was the best goalie in the 4 Nations Cup, and would have been the USA MVP, had the US won in the final, so it's encouraging. I agree that Helle has to come up big in the playoffs too. He did have success earlier in his career, in the 2018 and 2021 playoffs, and actually put up better numbers than Binnington in 2019, when the Blues won the Cup.

The last couple of years have been hard to watch him be pedestrian in the playoffs.

Why do you think he becomes pedestrian?

 

[WATTAGE4451]

Until he has that play off success. He isn't in that class ......this is the year he has to do it.

Its kinda ironic that this same argument would be used against hasek his entire buffalo career when he carried bad and mediocre sabres teams to the playoffs.. And when hasek actually won 2 stanley cups with detroit he wasnt even that good anymore and didnt have much to do with those cups being on loaded teams.

 

[WATTAGE4451]

So you’re gonna bring up five years ago to nitpick one word in my post and ignore that he’s played on a very good defensive team with excellent system structure the last few years?

He dwarfs everyone else this year in counting stats, yet not the analytics (some he does, as they vary). That’s because the analytics account for that he plays in a cozy setup for a goaltender.

This year. The majority of his career he has played for terrible defensive teams.

Ge also is leading the league in gials saved above average although thompson has better gsaa/60 but has played less games.

 

[WATTAGE4451]

Admittedly, I’m not the most familiar with goalie analytics as some people on this board. Which stats have him rated outside the best?

Hes just talking crap. Helly leads the leaghe in goals saved above average. Only thompson has a better gsaa/per 60 minutes among goalies playing more than 8 games but thompson has played 14 less games which is very relevant since helly has carried much greater workload.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

He's had an up and down playoff career. The last two years have been exceptionally bad, so he does need to rebound.

 

[Romang67]

You’re arguing semantics, and I’m not going to get into the weeds on this.

Yes, we agree the years where his stats weren’t that good and he didn’t contend for the Vezina other than one year five years ago he played on a meh defensive team. The past two years, that most definitely is not the case.

No, I'm not arguing semantics. If your argument is that he's been propped up by a great defensive team his entire career, it's pretty crucial that he has actually played for a great defensive team his whole career. Not just the last two seasons (something that's still EXTREMELY debatable).

Rejecting your premise isn't arguing semantics. If Hellebuyck had played for a great defensive team his entire career that propped up his stats, his career would be less impressive. Hellebuyck hasn't played for a great defensive team his entire career. For years, he played behind one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

 

[MardyBum]

Why do you think he becomes pedestrian?

The team infront of him certainly hasn't helped the last two years. They basically gave Colorado a free pass to the slot every second minute, and Colorado also got a ton of free traffic to the net leading to a bunch of tips/screens and rebound goals. There's a reason every Jets media person screeched like a 7 year old after the Schenn trade.

Hellebuyck is one of the best goalies in the league because of the way he reads the play, predicting what will happen and being in place to make the stop. He's rarely swimming out there. Colorado took all of that away and the rest of the team (and the coach) did nothing to take it back.

Hellebuyck was bad, the Jets team and their head coach were atrocious.

The idea he "can't get it done" though is weird, he swept McDrai in one of the most lopsided(for the Oilers) sweep in recent NHL history.

Who was the last goalie to win a cup for a team that was one of the worst performing teams in the entire playoffs (which the Jets were the last 2 years).

 

[MardyBum]

Hellebuyck's first Vezina was in 19-20.

They were the WORST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE in terms of xGA and high danger corsi against over a 3 year span.

Their PK also had the highest xGA/60 and second highest HDCA/60 over that span.

Even in 18-19 when they made the playoffs, they were in the bottom 10 for xGA, and their PK was in the bottom 10 of the league in xGA/60 and 11th worst in HDCA/60.

Sure, Bowness came in and instituted team defense to a level the Jets hadn't played at since 17-18, but that's how the Jets went from middle bubble team to one of the best teams in the league (in the regular season). Good to great defense, with the best goalie.

The idea he's had even a "good" team in front of him defensively his entire career is laughable. This is the 4th year he's had that in his career.

 

[Romang67]

Hellebuyck's first Vezina was in 19-20.

View attachment 994101

They were the WORST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE in terms of xGA and high danger corsi against over a 3 year span.

Their PK also had the highest xGA/60 and second highest HDCA/60 over that span.

Even in 18-19 when they made the playoffs, they were in the bottom 10 for xGA, and their PK was in the bottom 10 of the league in xGA/60 and 11th worst in HDCA/60.

Sure, Bowness came in and instituted team defense to a level the Jets hadn't played at since 17-18, but that's how the Jets went from middle bubble team to one of the best teams in the league (in the regular season). Good to great defense, with the best goalie.

The idea he's had even a "good" team in front of him defensively his entire career is laughable. This is the 4th year he's had that in his career.

The shift in perception of the post 2018 Maurice led Winnipeg Jets in order to downplay Hellebuyck's career has really been something to behold. I'm looking forward to when it goes far enough to become "well actually, Kyle Connor and Patrick Laine were pretty good defensively."

To be clear, it's a very small group of people who act like the Winnipeg Jets have been good defensively for his entire career. But boy are they loud about it.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

He wanted to have a chance to play in the NHL. Your team wouldn't even commit to the appearance that he'd get a chance in the NHL. They were so completely against it.

Pittsburgh said they'd give him a legit shot to play in the NHL, and they kept their word when he made their team to start the season. Seems pretty straight forward.

It was 3 games that he played before being banished to the AHL on a team no where near the playoffs.
He would have gotten a chance at games here they just weren't going to commit to a guaranteed top 6 role this year.
Which obviously he didn't get in Pittsburgh either.
Then after the trade he said it had nothing to do with playing guarantees and it was more a "feeling" he got.
The change of tune/story left a bad taste in Wpg fans mouths.
Anyways his stock is dropping this year and Yager's has risen so we'll take the guy who's less of a drama queen.
There was a clear path to a 2C role on the best team in the league so far this year and he didn't take it so that's on him.
Realistically a rookie player shouldn't be making these demands.
He wasn't a top 1-2-3 pick.
Full time role in year one was pretty unrealistic thinking on his part.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Whatever this diversion is, could one of you please explain the connection to this thread or move on?

(I'd prefer the latter, but I'll take the former.)