The Players' Tribune: "Hell and Back" by Marc Savard

[tony d]

Cooke was a despicable player, guy ruined the career of Marc Savard. A guy who was a pretty good playmaker during his time and could have been so much more.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

I think one week after ending Savard's career he elbowed McDonagh of NYR in the head on NBC.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/savard-not-ready-to-make-up-with-cooke-just-yet


Except when you're wrong.


On Hfboards, apparently it's protocol I say "Yeah well a team that employs Brad Marchand shouldn't be talking..." because that's what people tell us Penguins fans even though we don't like Matt Cooke at all, but don't just flat out lie when you can literally google that bit of news.

Cooke did reach out.

Also, nothing has changed. Blindsided hits still happen, hits to the head are still a regular part of the game with little to no consequences.

If you say so.

There is also an article titled 'Marc Savard: I Never Heard From Matt Cooke' but carry on.

Perhaps Cooke could have made further effort after the initial hit if he were such a decent human being (he isn't).

Cooke is at the lowest level of scum in NHL history. He is not alone but he is right at the trashiest bottom.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I think one week after ending Savard's career he elbowed McDonagh of NYR in the head on NBC.

I'm pretty sure it was a different suspension. He got 4 games for a hit from behind on Tyutin, promptly came back and gave McDonagh a blatant elbow to the head. That's when he got the 10 game suspension.

The guy is absolutely one of the dirtiest, ******* players in the modern era.

 

[DMR]

Sad read. But this is much bigger than Matt Cooke. It's been the culture of hockey for many decades. There a lot of "respected" players that were far more predatory in headhunting than Cooke. I wonder if Scott Stevens ever apologized for careers he ruined.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

Savard did end his own career...not Cooke. The Cooke hit was bad (and legal at the time) but Savard lying to the team and doctors is what caused him to have to retire. People may not like this line of thinking but Savard admitted in the article to not being 100% when he came back. He knew it but still decided to play even tho he knew there was a risk. If he sits out until he was 100% maybe the Hunwick hit doesn't end his career. Maybe he's still playing today.

Still defending the Cooke hit, eh?

Legal or not, it was a dirty, headhunting hit. Whether it was the final blow, or what Savard did afterwards to finish himself off, the hit itself still was a dirtbag move, and I don't wish to see any player from any team laying on the ice after a hit like that.

Not going to argue or defend Savard on this because I shouldn't need to.

 

[Burgs]

They may even care...It's just that their careers are over as soon as they stop playing like that. These are the types of guys who make their living on that edge.

But actually Cooke did not have to play like that. He was a very good 3rd line winger who scored 12-15 goals each season, and was an excellent PKer. It would have been smarter for him to focus on those parts of his game and cut out the headshots, if only selfishly to avoid losing salary from suspensions. But he never did clean up his act until he was basically forced to. I guess he himself also believed he had to play dirty to stay in the league because that's how he was raised as a player. And the league never really stopped him or really anyone else since.

Cooke injuring others is still on him, and Savard has every right to be bitter about it. But the problem is much bigger than those two. Cooke and players like him played in an environment that fostered this behaviour. And the league still hasn't learned **** in that regard. Yeah they curbed the head-hunting spree that was all the rage back then. So today players will crosscheck heads, slewfoot and slash hands with near zero repercussions instead.

 

[Number8]

Savard did end his own career...not Cooke. The Cooke hit was bad (and legal at the time) but Savard lying to the team and doctors is what caused him to have to retire. People may not like this line of thinking but Savard admitted in the article to not being 100% when he came back. He knew it but still decided to play even tho he knew there was a risk. If he sits out until he was 100% maybe the Hunwick hit doesn't end his career. Maybe he's still playing today.

Thats a hell of a statement to make. No one knows if Savard would ever have been able to play and take any kind of hit without a similar outcome. What we do know is that Cooke's cheap headshot ("legal" at the time or not argument ignores Cooke's clear intent to lay an indefensible shot to a vulnerable player) caused aignificant damage.

Also, have some compassion and re-read his comments on knowing nothing but hockey and finally recognizing his dream of reaching playoffs let alone a chance to reach the Holy Grail.

Easy for those who aren't in that position to say "I wouldn't have done that". Not so easy to say or do if you're actually in that position, I'd imagine.

 

[Pancakes]

I'm also a Pens fan and I don't like Cooke or what he did. I especially find his style frustrating because he was good enough to not play that way. He's not Tom Sestito or some hack goon like that. Guy could score 10-15 goals a year, skate well, pk, hit, you name it. He was a solid solid bottom six guy.

He could have played without the dirty stuff. He didn't. It's sad for him and sad for Savard too.

Thing is there's ways to be dirty and frustrate the other team without crossing a line. Ryan Kesler is a good example of that. He hacks and whacks and talks trash, but he never puts guys out of commission for a while. He just irritates the hell out of them. That's how guys like Cooke should operate. Agitate, talk trash, whack and hack, but just don't target a guy's head or knees. Just don't do that. Don't take away their ability to play or their quality of life.

 

[The Panther]

Sad read. But this is much bigger than Matt Cooke. It's been the culture of hockey for many decades. There a lot of "respected" players that were far more predatory in headhunting than Cooke. I wonder if Scott Stevens ever apologized for careers he ruined.

The only Stevens hit (that I'm aware of) which I don't like is the Kariya one. That's for two reasons: 1) Kariya was a smaller, elite-level player (though, I suppose Stevens was elite, too), and 2) that hit was a bit late -- Kariya didn't have the puck anymore.

But as far as the mechanics of the hit, I have no problem with it.

Otherwise? I can't think of another Stevens play that was targeting smaller guys or elite players. For a guy who played on the edge for 22 seasons, you'd think we'd recall him laying out Gretzky or Lemieux or Selanne or whoever. I do not remember that happening, unless it resulted from incidental contact.

Another thing: Stevens regularly stood up to the big guys. He went toe-to-toe with bigger players like Lindros, and never backed down from a challenge. If he went a bit over the line and the bell rang, he answered it.

None of this applies to Matt Cooke. He was a non-elite player who targeted better players than him. There were countless such incidents, not just one in 22 years. And he was almost Claude Lemieux-ish in his ability to get in trouble and then run from it, refusing to answer for his actions.

 

[Barrie22]

The only Stevens hit (that I'm aware of) which I don't like is the Kariya one. That's for two reasons: 1) Kariya was a smaller, elite-level player (though, I suppose Stevens was elite, too), and 2) that hit was a bit late -- Kariya didn't have the puck anymore.

But as far as the mechanics of the hit, I have no problem with it.

Otherwise? I can't think of another Stevens play that was targeting smaller guys or elite players. For a guy who played on the edge for 22 seasons, you'd think we'd recall him laying out Gretzky or Lemieux or Selanne or whoever. I do not remember that happening, unless it resulted from incidental contact.

Another thing: Stevens regularly stood up to the big guys. He went toe-to-toe with bigger players like Lindros, and never backed down from a challenge. If he went a bit over the line and the bell rang, he answered it.

None of this applies to Matt Cooke. He was a non-elite player who targeted better players than him. There were countless such incidents, not just one in 22 years. And he was almost Claude Lemieux-ish in his ability to get in trouble and then run from it, refusing to answer for his actions.

Stevens targeted lindros's head also in the same way as kariya.

 

[egelband]

Cooke never even tried to reach out to Savard. In fact, he probably has already framed this on his wall. Disgusting player.

Savard was a truly passionate, and among the elite playmakers of his time. Very sad to have it taken away by Cooke.

It's endlessly shocking that the l ague doesn't get rid of players who intentionally look to injure fellow professionals. It's just insane.

 

[egelband]

I'm also a Pens fan and I don't like Cooke or what he did. I especially find his style frustrating because he was good enough to not play that way. He's not Tom Sestito or some hack goon like that. Guy could score 10-15 goals a year, skate well, pk, hit, you name it. He was a solid solid bottom six guy.
He could have played without the dirty stuff. He didn't. It's sad for him and sad for Savard too.

Thing is there's ways to be dirty and frustrate the other team without crossing a line. Ryan Kesler is a good example of that. He hacks and whacks and talks trash, but he never puts guys out of commission for a while. He just irritates the hell out of them. That's how guys like Cooke should operate. Agitate, talk trash, whack and hack, but just don't target a guy's head or knees. Just don't do that. Don't take away their ability to play or their quality of life.

Well said. There's a very clear line between being a dick out there and being dangerous. No one reasonable cares about a face wash or a whack. It's the guys who go out on a shift only looking to make a big hit regardless of the flow of the game. Those are the problem. It's a quirk of hockey where that's possible. Needs to be fixed.

 

[The Panther]

Stevens targeted lindros's head also in the same way as kariya.

Perhaps you missed my point. Stevens hitting Lindros is fine with me, or Lindros hitting Stevens. Those are two big, strong guys who always play a physical style. They both hit each other, and they dropped the gloves on each other a couple of times.

My only issue with Stevens on Kariya is that Kariya was a much smaller, non-physical type of player. Fans have different opinions on this, but I personally don't like it when tough guys put punishing hits on small guys, especially small guys who are elite and who aren't themselves physical. Don't get me wrong -- there's nothing wrong with standing up Kariya or rubbing him out on the boards or whatever, but I think the 2003 hit by Stevens was overboard.

However, the only reason I pointed that out was as the exception to the rule -- generally, I don't recall players like Stevens going after smaller, less physical players with dangerous checks. But Matt Cooke is different. He always went after more talented players than he, and often went after guys who weren't physical. And he would often run away after doing so when challenged by enforcers.

As someone pointed out, there's a "classy" way to be a super-pest in hockey, and then there's the classless Cooke way.

 

[Barrie22]

Perhaps you missed my point. Stevens hitting Lindros is fine with me, or Lindros hitting Stevens. Those are two big, strong guys who always play a physical style. They both hit each other, and they dropped the gloves on each other a couple of times.

My only issue with Stevens on Kariya is that Kariya was a much smaller, non-physical type of player. Fans have different opinions on this, but I personally don't like it when tough guys put punishing hits on small guys, especially small guys who are elite and who aren't themselves physical. Don't get me wrong -- there's nothing wrong with standing up Kariya or rubbing him out on the boards or whatever, but I think the 2003 hit by Stevens was overboard.

However, the only reason I pointed that out was as the exception to the rule -- generally, I don't recall players like Stevens going after smaller, less physical players with dangerous checks. But Matt Cooke is different. He always went after more talented players than he, and often went after guys who weren't physical. And he would often run away after doing so when challenged by enforcers.

As someone pointed out, there's a "classy" way to be a super-pest in hockey, and then there's the classless Cooke way.

Yeah i just don't see it that way. Big, small, skilled or goon doesn't matter to me. Its the dirtyness of the hits that bother me.

Kariya was less dangerous of a hit to me and more legal then anything. Still a shoulder to the head, but at that time of the league it was a beautiful hit which did and still does grace top 10 plays for how good of a hit it was.

Lindros i have more of a problem with, it was a deliberate elbow straight to the head.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

I'm also a Pens fan and I don't like Cooke or what he did. I especially find his style frustrating because he was good enough to not play that way. He's not Tom Sestito or some hack goon like that. Guy could score 10-15 goals a year, skate well, pk, hit, you name it. He was a solid solid bottom six guy.

He could have played without the dirty stuff. He didn't. It's sad for him and sad for Savard too.

Thing is there's ways to be dirty and frustrate the other team without crossing a line. Ryan Kesler is a good example of that. He hacks and whacks and talks trash, but he never puts guys out of commission for a while. He just irritates the hell out of them. That's how guys like Cooke should operate. Agitate, talk trash, whack and hack, but just don't target a guy's head or knees. Just don't do that. Don't take away their ability to play or their quality of life.

Exactly. One thing to agitate. Pests are annoying.

Cooke had intent to injure written all over his career and that is his legacy. He should have carried himself differently.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Stevens targeted lindros's head also in the same way as kariya.

I agree that of his biggest hits, only the Kariya and Lindros hits are the ones that I would call dirty.

Stevens was a predatory and devastating hitter but 99% of the time he hit solidly to the body with his skates on the ice. Those hits are still legal today, even with head contact.

He doesn't belong anywhere near the same conversation as Cooke, who was a predatory cheapshot artist.

 

[Curufinwe]

Stevens was a career headhunter. The idea that Lindros and Kariya were the only guys he nailed in the noggin is laughable.

 

[Guardian17]

That was hard to read, thanks for posting this.

 

[Barrie22]

I agree that of his biggest hits, only the Kariya and Lindros hits are the ones that I would call dirty.

Stevens was a predatory and devastating hitter but 99% of the time he hit solidly to the body with his skates on the ice. Those hits are still legal today, even with head contact.

He doesn't belong anywhere near the same conversation as Cooke, who was a predatory cheapshot artist.

No both those hits now, especially the lindros one gets 5+ games. And that is as a 1st time offender. Direct contact to the head with the elbow and even a extending the arm with a follow through.

 

[egelband]

Stevens was a career headhunter. The idea that Lindros and Kariya were the only guys he nailed in the noggin is laughable.

Yep. I never liked how he was revered for injuring others.
Hitting is fine when it's for a hockey play. Like two players chasing a puck. Or a defender lining up a puck carrier who takes a hit to make a play.
But hitting unaware players to hurt them is just garbage.
It's certainly a fine line. But these guys are very aware of what they're doing.
I'm glad it has become more of a topic. Next step is getting the predatory hits out of the game.

 

[Baemon Severson*]

Stevens was a career headhunter. The idea that Lindros and Kariya were the only guys he nailed in the noggin is laughable.

You seem upset

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

I hate Matt Cooke.

The league was ridiculous with him. It was clear that during this play, he was deliberately trying to injure Savard. You have to step in and punish Cooke. The hit may have been legal, but it was a clear attempt to injure. Blindside, all head, and it caused a huge injury for Savard.

He also should have been thrown out of the league for good. How many injuries did he have to cause for the NHL to realize that he just wanted to take out knees and heads?

 

[The Panther]

This is how I would dish out penalties for 'targeting the head' hits in pro-hockey:

1st time -- suspension (min. 5 games)

2nd time (within a 10-year period) -- automatically double the 1st time (so, min. 10 games)

3rd time (within a 10-year period) -- automatic one-season suspension

4th time (within a 10-year period) -- banned from the NHL permanently

______________

Things that (re-)occur outside of the 10-year window are at the discretion of the League.

 

[redfzn]

You seem upset

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