Player Discussion: Heinola Thread

[jungles]

I thought he looked good against the Leafs, personally. Certainly good enough for a 7th defenseman, but not sure what his ceiling is. Would love to see more offense out of him at this level.

 

[scelaton]

That's fair to say. Heinola is 90% projection of his skill set at his point.

Plenty of guys in his archetype can struggle early before becoming top 4 guys after several years.

He has a long way to go in our end to be a guy we can trust to play in the playoffs.

Agree with most of this, except I wouldn't be too quick to agree that he is over-hyped. The Heinola fans here have simply expected (for longer than necessary) that he be given a fair chance to sink or swim with regular minutes and special teams play, given his pedigree and demonstrated talent in development. There is no reason he should not be given a run of 15+ games with the injuries on LD and our team in a safe playoff position. Let's just see how he does now that the he's got his opportunity.

There was never a need to over-hype his potential or decry his small size (unless the Tiny Heini posters are projecting their own, um...inadequacies)

 

[Puckatron 3000]

(unless the Tiny Heini posters are projecting their own, um...inadequacies)

It's a fair critique though, who wants a half-assed defenseman?

 

[scelaton]

It's a fair critique though, who wants a half-assed defenseman?

Good point. Around here, sometimes it seems like the bigger the ass, the better.

 

[DeepFrickinValue]

Jets are first overall. They can afford to play the hell out of him to figure out what they have got.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Jets are first overall. They can afford to play the hell out of him to figure out what they have got.

They kind of have to, if Fleury misses any games and with Stan's injury.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Agree with most of this, except I wouldn't be too quick to agree that he is over-hyped. The Heinola fans here have simply expected (for longer than necessary) that he be given a fair chance to sink or swim with regular minutes and special teams play, given his pedigree and demonstrated talent in development. There is no reason he should not be given a run of 15+ games with the injuries on LD and our team in a safe playoff position. Let's just see how he does now that the he's got his opportunity.

There was never a need to over-hype his potential or decry his small size (unless the Tiny Heini posters are projecting their own, um...inadequacies)

I mean I don't see him getting any pp time with Pionk and Mo being here for the expected future.

 

[DRW204]

Agree with most of this, except I wouldn't be too quick to agree that he is over-hyped. The Heinola fans here have simply expected (for longer than necessary) that he be given a fair chance to sink or swim with regular minutes and special teams play, given his pedigree and demonstrated talent in development. There is no reason he should not be given a run of 15+ games with the injuries on LD and our team in a safe playoff position. Let's just see how he does now that the he's got his opportunity.

There was never a need to over-hype his potential or decry his small size (unless the Tiny Heini posters are projecting their own, um...inadequacies)

He's gotten what he's deserved based on his play. He doesn't have the rope Stanley does certainly, but if we're being fair, neither should have that type of rope.

The Jets have been telling fans what they think of heinola since 2021 through their transactions (or lack thereof), and still today wouldn't be in the lineup without injuries. You stans refuse to beleive or acknowledge what's actually been done with him over the years.

We're nearing 2025, not 2020. Maybe it's time to adjust projections and look back on how wrong Jets fans including myself were on Heinola to date.

Regular minutes and special teams? Just lol. He's gotten what he deserves, 3rd pair or press box. He's not a top 4 guy and certainly not better than Morrissey or samberg, and Dillion previously.

For all the vaunted offense or puck moving that his fans on here like to claim, where is that at? He's not playing special teams either pp or pk over any of the current dmen be real.

 

[Crocket]

That's 2 excellent games from Heinola. His breakout pass led to the scheifele goal. He's playing gets better and better as you would expect coming from such a long layoff

Stan is clearly not in the LD depth chart anymore if Fluery is healthy. With Fleury's injury, Heinola should get a good chance to play even more.

Stan is a complete liability penalty wise and defending on a rush

 

[Adam da bomb]

That's 2 excellent games from Heinola. His breakout pass led to the scheifele goal. He's playing gets better and better as you would expect coming from such a long layoff

Stan is clearly not in the LD depth chart anymore if Fluery is healthy. With Fleury's injury, Heinola should get a good chance to play even more.

Stan is a complete liability penalty wise and defending on a rush

To think that way bout Stan is setting yourself up for disappointment as you know he is going in when he is healthy.

 

[BoneDocUK]

It's really funny to watch the way people spin play.

I have been happy with Ville's progression this year as he gets more games in. However, he's still not this zone control/ exit machine that was supposed to be his hallmark. There was one play where he blindly threw it up the boards without pressure to the Leafs defenseman which eventually led to Demelo clearing it out for a penalty.

The one reply was calling Demelo "Dumelo".

Conversely, if that would have been Stanley that did it, the pitchforks would be out.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy Heinola is getting some playing time, and I am very hopeful he will start to control the puck and help the Jets with zone exits, and he is starting to do that a bit more every game in my mind, but if he is going to stick with the club and overcome the percieved size and toughness argument, he will have to excel at it and start driving offense. That is what he will have to do based on his skillset.

Has missed some for sure, but his exit pass up to KFC that led to the Gabe-55 magic pass was exactly the sort of play you want to see from him. There were a few others there that stretched the ice and set up chances in just that way.

Still a project in some ways, but is catching up to the player who should have hit the ground running out of camp last year, IMO. Will it happen? I hope so, since it potentially opens up some interesting options for the Jets.

 

[LowLefty]

Has missed some for sure, but his exit pass up to KFC that led to the Gabe-55 magic pass was exactly the sort of play you want to see from him. There were a few others there that stretched the ice and set up chances in just that way.

Still a project in some ways, but is catching up to the player who should have hit the ground running out of camp last year, IMO. Will it happen? I hope so, since it potentially opens up some interesting options for the Jets.

Ville's shortfall has never been his passing - as long as he has the puck, he's pretty good at distributing.

I might be the outlier, but I always look at a dmans ability to play a decent level of defense before I consider him a decent defenseman.
And a lot of the work a dman does, is without the puck.
This is especially true come PO's - we'll need guys back there that can handle the additional weight of PO hockey -
The good news is that he will now have a chance (w/current injuries) to show he can handle reg season D which will improve his chances.

What I'm looking forward to is hearing the fans cheer for good defensive plays - cycle disruption, net front work, aggressive gap, and keeping the middle ice clear for Helle. Those are the things we need to be good (better at) - can Ville do those things is what we need to sort out - and not whether or not he can make a pass or play offense.

 

[Moloch]

Ville had a good game yesterday, so did demelo.

 

[KingBogo]

View attachment 951040
Ville had a good game yesterday, so did demelo.

I thought it was Heinola’s game yet. Put that chart puts in perspective how strong of a game the 1st line had.

 

[scelaton]

Ville's shortfall has never been his passing - as long as he has the puck, he's pretty good at distributing.

I might be the outlier, but I always look at a dmans ability to play a decent level of defense before I consider him a decent defenseman.
And a lot of the work a dman does, is without the puck.
This is especially true come PO's - we'll need guys back there that can handle the additional weight of PO hockey -
The good news is that he will now have a chance (w/current injuries) to show he can handle reg season D which will improve his chances.

What I'm looking forward to is hearing the fans cheer for good defensive plays - cycle disruption, net front work, aggressive gap, and keeping the middle ice clear for Helle. Those are the things we need to be good (better at) - can Ville do those things is what we need to sort out - and not whether or not he can make a pass or play offense.

I don't think you are an outlier, you just have a preference (aka bias) for bigger defensemen. In today's NHL, there is much more of an emphasis on a 2-way game and D-men are best judged on the entirety of their game. Of the top-10 scoring D in the NHL, half are small players, some very small, but most are net positive players.

If Heinola can ensure that less of the game is played in our end, then clearing the net will be less of a factor in his overall game and in the team's results. This applies also to playoffs, where the strategy employed by, eg, Colorado, would be best countered by smart neutral zone decisions, quick retrieval of dump-ins, and effective first passes to clear our zone.

It is too early to judge whether Ville fills the bill, but he will ultimately be judged, IMO, by the composite of all aspects of his game over a decent (>15 game) sample size, not by specific offensive or defensive skills alone, or by physical attributes.

 

[DRW204]

luckily, heinola is playing against bottom of the line up fwds, while having Helle back-stopping him

 

[MyNameIsTaken]

He's gotten what he's deserved based on his play. He doesn't have the rope Stanley does certainly, but if we're being fair, neither should have that type of rope.

The Jets have been telling fans what they think of heinola since 2021 through their transactions (or lack thereof), and still today wouldn't be in the lineup without injuries. You stans refuse to beleive or acknowledge what's actually been done with him over the years.

We're in 2025 not 2020. Maybe it's time to adjust projections and look back on how wrong Jets fans including myself were on Heinola to date.

Regular minutes and special teams? Just lol. He's gotten what he deserves, 3rd pair or press box. He's not a top 4 guy and certainly not better than Morrissey or samberg, and Dillion previously.

For all the vaunted offense or puck moving that his fans on here like to claim, where is that at? He's not playing special teams either pp or pk over any of the current dmen be real.

Hey man, easy with the “2025” talk that’s a sensitive topic

 

[DRW204]

Hey man, easy with the “2025” talk that’s a sensitive topic

sorry

 

[LowLefty]

I don't think you are an outlier, you just have a preference (aka bias) for bigger defensemen. In today's NHL, there is much more of an emphasis on a 2-way game and D-men are best judged on the entirety of their game. Of the top-10 scoring D in the NHL, half are small players, some very small, but most are net positive players.

If Heinola can ensure that less of the game is played in our end, then clearing the net will be less of a factor in his overall game and in the team's results. This applies also to playoffs, where the strategy employed by, eg, Colorado, would be best countered by smart neutral zone decisions, quick retrieval of dump-ins, and effective first passes to clear our zone.

It is too early to judge whether Ville fills the bill, but he will ultimately be judged, IMO, by the composite of all aspects of his game over a decent (>15 game) sample size, not by specific offensive or defensive skills alone, or by physical attributes.

I do like D to be larger than average - but I tried to leave that out of my post (purposely).
I agree that they need to be 2 way players - and there are a few really goods ones that are small.
In most cases, the small ones are highly skilled and in some cases, elite - which is not what Ville is.
There are fans that think he might same day be that - but I think if that was the case, he would have been playing reg minutes long ago.
But you never know I suppose.

I hear what you're saying about possession but honestly, you can't disqualify the need for defense by stating you can avoid playing defense.
You might be able to tip the scale to a degree - but you will be playing D in your end, and at times, you'll spend a lot of time there. That's similar to saying our forwards can avoid the d aspect of their game because they will be playing mostly in the other end - that would be a disaster and it goes against Arniel's game plan. Ville's best chance in success is if the Jets play a more defensive 5 man game - that will take a lot of pressure off all our D.

I agree it is too early to judge Ville - I hope he gets his 15 games.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I don't think you are an outlier, you just have a preference (aka bias) for bigger defensemen. In today's NHL, there is much more of an emphasis on a 2-way game and D-men are best judged on the entirety of their game. Of the top-10 scoring D in the NHL, half are small players, some very small, but most are net positive players.

If Heinola can ensure that less of the game is played in our end, then clearing the net will be less of a factor in his overall game and in the team's results. This applies also to playoffs, where the strategy employed by, eg, Colorado, would be best countered by smart neutral zone decisions, quick retrieval of dump-ins, and effective first passes to clear our zone.

It is too early to judge whether Ville fills the bill, but he will ultimately be judged, IMO, by the composite of all aspects of his game over a decent (>15 game) sample size, not by specific offensive or defensive skills alone, or by physical attributes.

But, jets already have enough offence what they need is a player who will help keep it out.

I do like D to be larger than average - but I tried to leave that out of my post (purposely).
I agree that they need to be 2 way players - and there are a few really goods ones that are small.
In most cases, the small ones are highly skilled and in some cases, elite - which is not what Ville is.
There are fans that think he might same day be that - but I think if that was the case, he would have been playing reg minutes long ago.
But you never know I suppose.

I hear what you're saying about possession but honestly, you can't disqualify the need for defense by stating you can avoid playing defense.
You might be able to tip the scale to a degree - but you will be playing D in your end, and at times, you'll spend a lot of time there. That's similar to saying our forwards can avoid the d aspect of their game because they will be playing mostly in the other end - that would be a disaster and it goes against Arniel's game plan. Ville's best chance in success is if the Jets play a more defensive 5 man game - that will take a lot of pressure off all our D.

I agree it is too early to judge Ville - I hope he gets his 15 games.

You never do know after all if coaches were not obsessed with Stan there are regular minutes. We have also seen fleury taken out for Stan.

 

[GeorgeJETson]

Good point. Around here, sometimes it seems like the bigger the ass, the better.

 

[BoneDocUK]

Ville's shortfall has never been his passing - as long as he has the puck, he's pretty good at distributing.

I might be the outlier, but I always look at a dmans ability to play a decent level of defense before I consider him a decent defenseman.
And a lot of the work a dman does, is without the puck.
This is especially true come PO's - we'll need guys back there that can handle the additional weight of PO hockey -
The good news is that he will now have a chance (w/current injuries) to show he can handle reg season D which will improve his chances.

What I'm looking forward to is hearing the fans cheer for good defensive plays - cycle disruption, net front work, aggressive gap, and keeping the middle ice clear for Helle. Those are the things we need to be good (better at) - can Ville do those things is what we need to sort out - and not whether or not he can make a pass or play offense.

I agree -- I was responding specifically to @Jet's post. FWIW, I think his D will evolve also, as it must do for him to stick in the league. We've seen it with JMo (though it took time) and quite a few other smaller D who are able to use sticks, leverage, anticipation, positioning and other tools to defend effectively.

We're also seeing it in too-small, too-weak Perfetti, who has developed into a very efficient positive player on the boards and cycle.

Anyway, hopefully Ville gets enough reps to either grow his D game to a point where he's a useful NHL player, either for the Jets or elsewhere. He's had a weird trajectory, and maybe he doesn't make it, but if he can then the Jets have an asset to keep or trade for another need.

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

I agree -- I was responding specifically to @Jet's post. FWIW, I think his D will evolve also, as it must do for him to stick in the league. We've seen it with JMo (though it took time) and quite a few other smaller D who are able to use sticks, leverage, anticipation, positioning and other tools to defend effectively.

We're also seeing it in too-small, too-weak Perfetti, who has developed into a very efficient positive player on the boards and cycle.

Anyway, hopefully Ville gets enough reps to either grow his D game to a point where he's a useful NHL player, either for the Jets or elsewhere. He's had a weird trajectory, and maybe he doesn't make it, but if he can then the Jets have an asset to keep or trade for another need.

JMo was pretty good defensively, right off the hop. For a guy coming into the league touted as an offensive-minded defenseman, he seemed to already have a great understanding as to where he needed to be positionally; and in relation to his defensive partner. The only time I can think of when he was regressing in this regard, was around 2020-21, and 2021-22.

I thought that he was the best Jet in his own end, from 2016 through to 2020.

 

[LowLefty]

I agree -- I was responding specifically to @Jet's post. FWIW, I think his D will evolve also, as it must do for him to stick in the league. We've seen it with JMo (though it took time) and quite a few other smaller D who are able to use sticks, leverage, anticipation, positioning and other tools to defend effectively.

We're also seeing it in too-small, too-weak Perfetti, who has developed into a very efficient positive player on the boards and cycle.

Anyway, hopefully Ville gets enough reps to either grow his D game to a point where he's a useful NHL player, either for the Jets or elsewhere. He's had a weird trajectory, and maybe he doesn't make it, but if he can then the Jets have an asset to keep or trade for another need.

I'd like to see him do well - and I think he'll get the time needed to show us if he can add what's missing in his game.
I'm not as optimistic as some but I have no problem giving him a chance to prove me wrong.

 

[Bender Duster]

I’m not saying Ville is same calibre as guys like Makar, Fox or QHughes but he’s basically the same height and weight as those three and they do alright for themselves out there.

Skill and IQ can overcome size. I wouldn’t want to run 6D Ville’s size but he’s small by any stretch (pun?) in today’s NHL.

I mean he’s a friggin monster compared to the Hutson kid Habs fans are all frothing over these days!

I’m all for giving him some leash this season and seeing what he can do. We might need offensive support if Mo or Pionk get injured late in the season.