Hearing for Torres on Stoll hit (Thurs 9am PT, NYC; w/DW); out for rest of WCSF

[Led Zappa]

A few hints from history.

If the hearing was offered, they are already considering 5 or more as the default. Mitigating it will be extremely difficult.

In the past, they have applied the playoff issue of 3 to 1 in terms of value of games, 15 games reg season equals 5 playoff games.

When a type of offense is repeated, they almost always ratchet the penalty up. The last one was 25.

They did reduce his 25 games after the fact (after he missed the playoffs).

I wouldn't have my hopes up for Torres being in the lineup even if the Sharks make it to the finals.

I don't hold up much hope for Torres returning, but this is kinda muddy now as I just referred to above regarding the Clowe situation. With Torres rep you are probably right.

TSN’s Bob McKenzie reports Clowe is suspended for tonight’s game against Dallas pending a hearing Monday in New York with the league for him to explain what happened. The in-person meeting means the league can suspend him for more than six games if they see fit. Leaving the bench to start an altercation normally comes with an automatic 10-game suspension.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/...e-in-person-meeting-faces-10-game-suspension/

He has been offered the opportunity for an in-person hearing in the League office, which means his suspension can exceed five games, per provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=657106

Clowe received 2 games.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=657415

 

[SJeasy]

I don't hold up much hope for Torres returning, but this is kinda muddy now as I just referred to above regarding the Clowe situation. With Torres rep you are probably right.



http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/...e-in-person-meeting-faces-10-game-suspension/



http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=657106

Clowe received 2 games.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=657415

Thanks for the other hints.

That Clowe info is helpful for Torres. Probably means DW is a good negotiator. I don't think Clowe is terribly articulate so I do think DW helped.

I won't look it up now, but the last guy that I recall getting into the big numbers on suspensions was Chris Simon. It might help to look up his history.

 

[Alwalys]

4th liners don't score 27 goals.

Our 4c scored 33

A few hints from history.

If the hearing was offered, they are already considering 5 or more as the default. Mitigating it will be extremely difficult.

In the past, they have applied the playoff issue of 3 to 1 in terms of value of games, 15 games reg season equals 5 playoff games.

When a type of offense is repeated, they almost always ratchet the penalty up. The last one was 25.

They did reduce his 25 games after the fact (after he missed the playoffs).

I wouldn't have my hopes up for Torres being in the lineup even if the Sharks make it to the finals.

I don't think there is historic precedent for this. Sure the last one was 25 but no one on earth with a shred of objectivity can think that this deserves that or even close to that.

 

[DG93]

Potential lineup for tomorrow if Torres and Stoll aren't playing

Pavelski-Thornton-Burns
Marleau-Couture-Galiardi
Sheppard-Gomez-Wingels
Kearns-Desjardins

Vlasic-Braun
Stuart-Demers
Irwin-Boyle
Hannan

Ease Demers back into the line-up by running 7D, Galiardi replaces the grit on the 2nd line that is useful, the 3rd line needs to be sheltered, but without Stoll it will work. Gomez looked great in Game 1, so him and Wingels along with Sheppard can do well when sheltered w/o Stoll out there. Pavs already looks good w/ JT and Burns. Give Desi/Kearns a shift here and there as well.

Thoughts? Go Sharks.

 

[SJeasy]

Our 4c scored 33



I don't think there is historic precedent for this. Sure the last one was 25 but no one on earth with a shred of objectivity can think that this deserves that or even close to that.

With lesser suspensions, the number almost always goes up (see Cooke).

I agree that the degree of this infraction was less, but it was of the same type that landed Torres in trouble in the past. I do think type will trump degree in the eyes of the NHL. As I said above, it might be wise to look at Simon for instructive hints.

 

[Herschel]

While I still don't feel the hit was dirty or malicious, having now seen the reverse angle it's more clear why there's outcry.

From the standard angle most have posted it looks pretty clear cut as shoulder to shoulder, head whiplash from body contact-- fair, clean hit.

Reverse angle shows Raffi has him lined up well, then Stoll sees the contact coming and lets up/sits upright-- the shoulder almost completely misses, and Raffi's helmet(?) (or maybe back? trailing shoulder?) does pop Stoll's head.

While I'm still split on whether it's suspension worthy from a personal standpoint, I now see the more clear "hit to the head" people are referencing... and in the "new" NHL - /slash when you are Raffi Torres, repeat offender - a decent suspension is coming.

No longer holding out hope for a Thursday, or even a Saturday return. I'm thinking we need to just accept what is coming and move forward with trying to figure out a winning plan with the guys who will be eligible.

I think this is was DW wants to highlight. That Torres intended on making a clean legal full body check and that it was Stoll's sudden change in body position that caused the check to less than a full body one.

48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted. However, in determining whether such a hit should have been permitted, the circumstances of the hit, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit or the head contact on an otherwise legal body check was avoidable, can be considered.

Assume that there is enough contact with the head for it to be considered the principle point of contact. Now there is no reason to watch things in slow motion or break the actual hit down, so back up and only watch Stoll.

He is leaning forward when Torres lines him up for the check, if Stoll doesnt move Torres looks like he will hit him square on the side. Stoll's decision to stand up a brace for the hit is definitely a factor in why there is contact with the head.

 

[knu]

This is all so frustrating...

 

[Mafoofoo]

Ok well I guess it's time for Couture, Marleau, Burns and Pavelski to step it up and help Thornton carry the team.

Can't pin our hopes on Havlat coming back (because we know if Brown so much as coughs near Havlat, he'll be back on the IR), Torres or anyone else on the team. Nor can we expect Niemi to suddenly turn into Patrick Roy.

 

[Kitten Mittons]

I don't think Clowe is terribly articulate so I do think DW helped.

 

[Negatively Positive]

This is all so frustrating...

Remember when it appeared Havlat was just shaken up and might not even miss a game? He's still out...

Now a hit that didn't seem that bad could cost Torres the entire playoffs.

Things that seem minor at first can sure turn major in a hurry.

 

[LadyStanley]

Maybe Pelech will make his NHL Sharks playoff debut?

 

[Mafoofoo]

Maybe Pelech will make his NHL Sharks playoff debut?

Might as well forfeit game 2 in that case.

 

[Negatively Positive]

Might as well forfeit game 2 in that case.

Well he does replace Torres' hitting and scary eyes quota. Doesn't quite have the speed or skill though.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I laughed at that too.

 

[GodHatesTheSharks]

Brodie Brazil ‏@brodiebrazilCSN
As we await Torres verdict; watch this unpenalized hit from the regular season: http://*******/17wywaE #sjsharks #lakings

Lol what a joke.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Maybe Pelech will make his NHL Sharks playoff debut?

Sharks will be the first team to have back to back suspensions in NHL history.

 

[KirbyDots]

Maybe Pelech will make his NHL Sharks playoff debut?

Nothing good can come of this.

 

[Audio Outlaw]

Panic button. *Pushed*

 

[Evincar]

TMac should just move Tennyson to forward instead of playing Pelech. Oh wait he's an idiot.

Its probably DW's fault too. He could have gotten another forward at the deadline.

 

[eastbayjoker]

Right or wrong, it still comes back to Torres building up this bad reputation. He filled up the cup and now every little drop will make it overflow.

Not sure why more people don't understand this. Absolutely true.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

TMac should just move Tennyson to forward instead of playing Pelech. Oh wait he's an idiot.

What indication has he given that hes going to play Pelech? Oh thats right. None.

 

[SJeasy]

Simon history:

4/6/01 2 games
3/23/04 2 games
3/9/07 25 games
12/19/07 30 games

One of the big ones was for swinging a stick at an opponents head. He asked for a leave of absence just prior to his last suspension.

 

[Negatively Positive]

Simon history:

4/6/01 2 games
3/23/04 2 games
3/9/07 25 games
12/19/07 30 games

One of the big ones was for swinging a stick at an opponents head. He asked for a leave of absence just prior to his last suspension.

What are your opinions on the hit, Easy? Let's say it wasn't Torres but Couture who made the hit. Is it suspension worthy?

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Simon history:

4/6/01 2 games
3/23/04 2 games
3/9/07 25 games
12/19/07 30 games

One of the big ones was for swinging a stick at an opponents head. He asked for a leave of absence just prior to his last suspension.

The other was for stomping Jaarko Ruttu.

 

[Eighth Fret]

i can't believe there is just the one shot of the hit. i'd like to see it from a different angle.

but from the only angle available, it did not look like a head hit. should to shoulder, didn't leave his skates, and it wasn't even a charge to begin with.

this is so stupid. i understand he has a reputation, but where do you draw the line? do we have to swallow him being called offside when he isn't just because he has a rep? and with the technology we have today there is no reason we shouldn't be able to view this from multiple angles, determine if the head was hit, and make a decision quickly. this thing seriously can't get resolved until tomorrow? what a joke.