Proposal: Hayes to Pittsburgh (3 team trade)

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Rebuilding?

Yes rebuilding. Management sent an email last year saying as much.

Stop acting like you have a clue about the Rangers situation.

 

[Kupo]

Rebuilding?

I get retooling, rebuild would be cleaning house a lot more than that.

Brassard for Zbad + 2nd.

Stepan + Raanta for the 7th overall and DeAngelo.

McDonagh. Nash. Holden. Miller. Grabner. This is who they moved last season for Prospects like Rykov, Lindgren, Howden and Hajek.

Zucc, Hayes, McQuaid will all be moved this year. Possibly more.

5 1st’s overall the last 2 seasons. This isn’t a re-tool, it’s a rebuild.

Get your facts straight.

It's about stemming the time where Brassard signs there to get what he wants, and gives them time to find better options.

Brassards a 31 year old pending UFA. The Rangers have no interest in acquiring him back, and certainly not at the expense of Hayes who’s one of the most valuable chips this deadline.

Meaning they are signing Brassard while Hayes walks/gets traded. They get assets on top of it.

What assets?! A 3rd and a 5th?

Just stop man. It’s an absurdly awful proposal that does absolutely nothing for NY.

 

[Shootertooter]

GM's value Brassard more than some here for sure.

The retention hurts trying to trade him for another player coming back, but if it is straight up futures he's bringing back a 1st from a contender.

Just because he's a misfit here doesn't change his value, or the fact a team is going to give him 5.5/6.0 for term next July 1st if not sooner should the team who trades for him doesn't already sign him before then if he wants to be there.

It all comes down to cap hit of the target the Pens choose or are left with from the limited trading partners. Probably 2 to 5/6 teams.

One trade that makes sense is Lowry from the Jets where he is signed for a two years more, but he's not a top six center, but the fit might be there where the cap hits are close. Pushes Little down to 3c. Depth.

This is a trade where the Pens are downgrading due to fit and will most certainly pay more for age, contract as well. There's no need for retention here though.

Jets: Brassard +conditional 3rd: Should Brassard not re-sign with the Jets they receive a 2nd and C level prospect.

for

Pens: Lowry



For a deal around Kevin Hayes... and both being UFA, and only Brassards 3.0 to Hayes 5.175 and age difference

NYR: Brassard + 3rd and 5th

for

Pens: Hayes with retention

Both players probably don't stick with current teams. I know 100% certain Brassard won't.

If it were me, I'd trade him for futures straight up and keep the late 1st and prospect, and then either replace him from within or use the Pens own assets to replace the 3c which should cost way less than a 1st. Two 1sts could come in handy this draft to move up into the high teens. Make up for the 1st and Gustavsson lost getting Brassard. One true time where they could get good assets back.

The Pens have plenty of assets to make that work.

Horrific offer. Rangers pass and their fans burn you at the stake.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

He's worth nothing to a team that needs an upgrade at 3C, because he can't play that role. He could mean a fair amount to a team that needs an upgrade at 2C because he has a pretty good track record there, especially in the playoffs.

If it isn't the Jets, that's fine. I don't see there being a problem with suitors, and if there is, we're better off keeping him and using him as a top 6 LW than settling for a mid-round pick.

Fair enough.

 

[marciiauzii]

I don't see Rangers trading Hayes to Penguins. Hayes will head out west would be my guess if dealt.

 

[jfhabs]

Maybe switch to 1st pick to Pits and 2nd to team X

 

[Viqsi]

No. I'm saying he wouldn't be good at a job he's never done before in his career.

Well, anyone can tell he's no longer capable enough to serve as a #2C, and you're saying he can't be a scoring #3C, and there's others in this and other Brass threads saying he's not effective as a defensive #3C, so the natural conclusion is that he can't do anything useful anymore.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Maybe switch to 1st pick to Pits and 2nd to team X

Well seeing how we don’t know who team x is, the Pitt first could be a worse pick.

 

[jfhabs]

Well seeing how we don’t know who team x is, the Pitt first could be a worse pick.

I'm saying NYR should receive Pitts 1st + Team X 2nd + Hallander

 

[Ugene Magic]

Well, anyone can tell he's no longer capable enough to serve as a #2C, and you're saying he can't be a scoring #3C, and there's others in this and other Brass threads saying he's not effective as a defensive #3C, so the natural conclusion is that he can't do anything useful anymore.

People can tell that from a crappy Ottawa team in turmoil? Season before that they were challenging the Pens in the ECF's. Karlssons foot and all, the team was in a bad way.

I think people don't take circumstances into consideration.
Just saying.

 

[TGWL]

No, Pittsburgh would be the team getting screwed. Hayes having a career best half season assist total doesn't make him any better than he always was. Pittsburgh gets a different UFA center while giving up assets that could be used elsewhere or simply kept.

Keep sniffing whatever it is you currently have in front of you. Hayes is a much better all around player. He can be matched against teams top-lines, and still produce. He can play in all zones, PK, or on the PP if needed. If you can replace Brassard with Hayes, by not giving up too much more than you're getting back, you do it. if you don't want to part with assets, that fine, but Hayes being a worse player is just wrong.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I'm saying NYR should receive Pitts 1st + Team X 2nd + Hallander

And I’m saying the Pitt first might be a lesser pick than Team X’s first.

 

[jfhabs]

And I’m saying the Pitt first might be a lesser pick than Team X’s first.

Maybe, but you're not getting a lottery pick for UFA Hayes + 2nd + Hallander

 

[bernmeister]

GM's value Brassard more than some here for sure.

The retention hurts trying to trade him for another player coming back, but if it is straight up futures he's bringing back a 1st from a contender.

Just because he's a misfit here doesn't change his value, or the fact a team is going to give him 5.5/6.0 for term next July 1st if not sooner should the team who trades for him doesn't already sign him before then if he wants to be there.

It all comes down to cap hit of the target the Pens choose or are left with from the limited trading partners. Probably 2 to 5/6 teams.

One trade that makes sense is Lowry from the Jets where he is signed for a two years more, but he's not a top six center, but the fit might be there where the cap hits are close. Pushes Little down to 3c. Depth.

This is a trade where the Pens are downgrading due to fit and will most certainly pay more for age, contract as well. There's no need for retention here though.

Jets: Brassard +conditional 3rd: Should Brassard not re-sign with the Jets they receive a 2nd and C level prospect.

for

Pens: Lowry



For a deal around Kevin Hayes... and both being UFA, and only Brassards 3.0 to Hayes 5.175 and age difference

NYR: Brassard + 3rd and 5th

for

Pens: Hayes with retention

Both players probably don't stick with current teams. I know 100% certain Brassard won't.

If it were me, I'd trade him for futures straight up and keep the late 1st and prospect, and then either replace him from within or use the Pens own assets to replace the 3c which should cost way less than a 1st. Two 1sts could come in handy this draft to move up into the high teens. Make up for the 1st and Gustavsson lost getting Brassard. One true time where they could get good assets back.

The Pens have plenty of assets to make that work.

huge no
NY takes 1st + for Hayes even as rental

peddle Brass on your own

 

[tony d]

Hayes is a good player but that deal in the OP is an overpayment IMO.

 

[Wingsfan 4 life]

I don't know, why are GM's interested in Brassard?

Hint: It's not to play on the 3rd line.

He's a center. He has a $3M cap hit. He has no term to commit to.

3 reasons why GM's would be interested in Brassard before even thinking where in the lineup he might play.

 

[TGWL]

Maybe, but you're not getting a lottery pick for UFA Hayes + 2nd + Hallander

Well why would a lottery team go for Hayes, or Brassard? The idea would be a push for playoffs. Sure it's possible a team falls short, but most of those teams are going for the playoffs, so the pick typically wouldn't be lottery.

 

[Viqsi]

People can tell that from a crappy Ottawa team in turmoil?

No, one can see that from the fact that he's given simpler matchups on the Pens and can't do a damn thing with them. You're claiming he's no good as a #3C in any circumstance (scoring, defensive, or otherwise) so the idea that he'd be fine as a #2C - a position of GREATER responsibility - is frankly asinine.

 

[jfhabs]

Well why would a lottery team go for Hayes, or Brassard? The idea would be a push for playoffs. Sure it's possible a team falls short, but most of those teams are going for the playoffs, so the pick typically wouldn't be lottery.

Yes, that's what I mean. The other poster was saying the pick from team X might be better then Pitts pick as if lower in the standings. My point was, it would only be marginally better since Pitts is a wild card atm and non playoff teams won't bid on Hayes

 

[Ugene Magic]

No, one can see that from the fact that he's given simpler matchups on the Pens and can't do a damn thing with them. You're claiming he's no good as a #3C in any circumstance (scoring, defensive, or otherwise) so the idea that he'd be fine as a #2C - a position of GREATER responsibility - is frankly asinine.

That's just false, and you know it.

That's a position of being one of the front guys getting more offensive responsibilities/zone starts.

Do you understand the role of a #1c/#2 c compared to a #3c?

Now let's put into perspective you have the top 2c positions covered by future HHOF'ers? The guys who are going to get those offensive starts more than he is, all of the top PP time, and so on.

Asinine is not looking past the fact he wouldn't be as defensively responsible beyond the fact that he's the center and he's responsible to be back deep, on another team needing a 2C he has less defensive responsibilities.. Not if he has the freedom to create the offense more often than not and deep in the zone.

Brassard is a offensive center, and always was. That doesn't mean he can't be a little defensive, most are by nature of the position, just that some are prone to one or the other, and a select bunch who can do both very well.

 

[Viqsi]

That's just false, and you know it.

That's a position of being one of the front guys getting more offensive responsibilities/zone starts.

Do you understand the role of a #1c/#2 c compared to a #3c?

In a traditionally organized team, yes. Thus why I suggested he'd be fine as a scoring #3C on a team that rolls four lines rather than going the traditional "two scoring, one defensive, one energy". But you suggested that "third of four lines" is what he's asked to do in Pittsburgh and he can't deliver. Now you're acting as though he's on a traditional-structure defensive responsibility line and that's why he can't deliver. Which is it? One or the other? Both? Neither?

Either way, you're not going to get anywhere with this "he can't be a #3C anywhere, therefore he's a #2C" nonsense. Or, alternatively put - we've got Riley Nash here and he's been barely adequate as a 4th-line winger for us, but I'm sure he'd be a great top-6 forward for you guys, so pay us all the draft picks for him.

 

[Ugene Magic]

In a traditionally organized team, yes. Thus why I suggested he'd be fine as a scoring #3C on a team that rolls four lines rather than going the traditional "two scoring, one defensive, one energy". But you suggested that "third of four lines" is what he's asked to do in Pittsburgh and he can't deliver. Now you're acting as though he's on a traditional-structure defensive responsibility line and that's why he can't deliver. Which is it? One or the other? Both? Neither?

Either way, you're not going to get anywhere with this "he can't be a #3C anywhere, therefore he's a #2C" nonsense. Or, alternatively put - we've got Riley Nash here and he's been barely adequate as a 4th-line winger for us, but I'm sure he'd be a great top-6 forward for you guys, so pay us all the draft picks for him.

He's not getting traditional top 2c minutes (14:00 to 15:00 minutes a game), starts, he doesn't PK, no top PP time with the stars. It's real easy to grasp.

All he has is 5 on 5 play as the 3c and miniscule 2nd unit PP time.

What is there not to understand?

Nonsense is having to spell this out.

 

[Viqsi]

He's not getting traditional top 2c minutes (14:00 to 15:00 minutes a game), starts, he doesn't PK, no top PP time with the stars. It's real easy to grasp.

All he has is 5 on 5 play as the 3c and miniscule 2nd unit PP time.

What is there not to understand?

The part where all of this somehow indicates that he's still perfectly fine as the scoring #2C of a playoff team looking for a decent rental.

 

[Ugene Magic]

The part where all of this somehow indicates that he's still perfectly fine as the scoring #2C of a playoff team looking for a decent rental.

GM's don't think like you, that's for sure.

GM's look past a bad fit for a team and look at all of the above.

The Pens didn't send all those assets out for him to be a bad fit, it just worked out that way. The same as when the NYR's traded Hagelin to Anaheim and he was a bad fit there. It happens. JR has recovered from a few of those himself, and he will from this one. Just as another GM needing a top 2c will trade for him.

 

[Viqsi]

GM's don't think like you, that's for sure.

GM's look past a bad fit for a team and look at all of the above.

The Pens didn't send all those assets out for him to be a bad fit, it just worked out that way. The same as when the NYR's traded Hagelin to Anaheim and he was a bad fit there. It happens. JR has recovered from a few of those himself, and he will from this one. Just as another GM needing a top 2c will trade for him.

Perhaps. But they're not going to willingly pay top #2C prices, because he's not a top #2C, he's never been a top #2C, he never again will have the chance to be a top #2C, and the idea that he's even a mediocre #2C exists largely in the fevered imaginations of desperate Pens fans.

Sure, GMs look for situations like that all the time - but they don't pay the kinds of prices you've been quoting. They look for that stuff because it's a gamble they can try with low cost and decent potential reward. They're not going to pay you as though the reward is a guaranteed outcome.