Have players like McDavid and Matthews priced themselves out of a cup?

[ChrisProngersEYE]

Were Ovechkin and Crosby's generational talents more successful due to the fact that the max contract ceiling was lower when they signed allowing for talent to be more evenly dispersed across the team salary cao wise? Ovie at 9.5 and Crosby at 8.7. Left room for Malkin/Backstrom ++++++.

I believe this is an important topic to discuss as we see teams like Edmonton, Calgary and maybe Toronto have handed out outrageous contracts to players who are under performing or do not have enough talent around them to produce. By taking contracts with such high cap did these players and teams price themselves out of a cup?

The Oilers are a prime example of this.....the GM basically humilated Campbell but is to blind to see that

A, His team is rocking 8 entry levelish salaries
B. He has a defense men Nurse signed to a horrible contract forever
c. He has pretty much over paid the remaining D.
d. Half the forwards are warm bodies
e. Not sure Evander Kane is wearing his skates on the right feet this year
f. Brown is now "injured" plays one more game and gets a pay day?

But alas, Holland will likely bring in a new goalie to victimize while living dream on the carousel of insanity and ignorance.

 

[Hockeyholic]

No because the cap will go up

 

[Kegs]

Salary cap will go up.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I think it will be very difficult for General Managers to surround them with the proper team to win at those cap hits. Even if the cap goes up, they would still take up too much. I reckon they might win when they are 35+ on cheap deals with a Stanley Cup contender. Don’t see the Leafs winning with 3 guys making 10+. Don’t see McDavid winning when his cap hit is 14 or 15 million. The cap will not go up THAT much.

 

[God]

the capitals won with ovechkin at a ~9.5 million cap hit, which was probably ~12-13% of the cap at the time.

bad management has put the oilers where they are right now. the leafs are still contenders. most cores don't win cups.

 

[blundluntman]

What was the cap percentage for Ovi and Crosby at the time? Maybe an extra 2-3 million allows a GM to work some magic but I don't think that'd change things for Toronto and Edmonton. Edmonton in particular has wasted nearly 6 million by overpaying Nurse and paying Campbell period.

 

[surixon]

Were Ovechkin and Crosby's generational talents more successful due to the fact that the max contract ceiling was lower when they signed allowing for talent to be more evenly dispersed across the team salary cao wise? Ovie at 9.5 and Crosby at 8.7. Left room for Malkin/Backstrom ++++++.

I believe this is an important topic to discuss as we see teams like Edmonton, Calgary and maybe Toronto have handed out outrageous contracts to players who are under performing or do not have enough talent around them to produce. By taking contracts with such high cap did these players and teams price themselves out of a cup?

The Oilers are a prime example of this.....the GM basically humilated Campbell but is to blind to see that

A, His team is rocking 8 entry levelish salaries
B. He has a defense men Nurse signed to a horrible contract forever
c. He has pretty much over paid the remaining D.
d. Half the forwards are warm bodies
e. Not sure Evander Kane is wearing his skates on the right feet this year
f. Brown is now "injured" plays one more game and gets a pay day?

But alas, Holland will likely bring in a new goalie to victimize while living dream on the carousel of insanity and ignorance.

I mean Crosby's 8.7 million in 2009 when they won their first cup is equivalent to about 14.5 million with today's cap. So yes you can win a cup with a player making 17% of the cap if you build your team right cough Malkin on ELC.

But they did have to wait until the cap rose on their second contracts enough to win their next two. But those were still worth 14.5 and 14.77% of the cap when signed so not really discounts. They just seem like them due to how much the cap has risen since they inked them.

Unfortunately for McDavid and Mathews COVID lead to a period of limited revenue and thus cap growth.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I don’t think McDavid and Matthews or their cap hits are the problem with either team.

 

[Stephen]

Speaking in general terms, most pro sports leagues have a handful of marquee franchises and superstars on them that win championships and they sell that sizzle to market their league, with a variety of soft cap, luxury tax, no cap, no guaranteed contracts as tools to make this happen while trying to maintain some form of competitive balance to various degrees.

To put it another way. If the NHL had its own Michael Jordan and an emerging Chicago Bulls of the early 90s, absolute marketing bonanza, glamour franchise, the hard cap flat cap system would force Chicago to either have a Jordan, and maybe never completely the championship piece around him. Or you force that team to be dismantled after 1 or 2 titles max. Just go ask Chicago and Tampa Bay.

 

[Cup Or Bust]

Were Ovechkin and Crosby's generational talents more successful due to the fact that the max contract ceiling was lower when they signed allowing for talent to be more evenly dispersed across the team salary cao wise? Ovie at 9.5 and Crosby at 8.7. Left room for Malkin/Backstrom ++++++.

I believe this is an important topic to discuss as we see teams like Edmonton, Calgary and maybe Toronto have handed out outrageous contracts to players who are under performing or do not have enough talent around them to produce. By taking contracts with such high cap did these players and teams price themselves out of a cup?

The Oilers are a prime example of this.....the GM basically humilated Campbell but is to blind to see that

A, His team is rocking 8 entry levelish salaries
B. He has a defense men Nurse signed to a horrible contract forever
c. He has pretty much over paid the remaining D.
d. Half the forwards are warm bodies
e. Not sure Evander Kane is wearing his skates on the right feet this year
f. Brown is now "injured" plays one more game and gets a pay day?

But alas, Holland will likely bring in a new goalie to victimize while living dream on the carousel of insanity and ignorance.

Evander Kane has 8 points in his last 7 games and is second in the NHL in hits. Brown's cap hit this season is only 775K so his cap hit has no bearing on this season. It will next season but that has nothing to do with right now. Contracts like Campbell, Ceci, and I would argue Bouchard are the issue. Nurse could play on the powerplay making Bouchard basically not needed at all, His 3.9 could be used to try and get a more defensive right handed d-man to play with Nurse so Nurse is not stuck with Ceci who likely could be replaced by a d-man making half as much.

There is lots of other moves that are issues, not McDavid's contract.

 

[Sabre the Win]

I don’t think McDavid and Matthews or their cap hits are the problem with either team.

Both teams are against the cap and struggle each off season to make the necessary additions needed because they cant afford them.

Again How?

 

[nturn06]

Were Ovechkin and Crosby's generational talents more successful due to the fact that the max contract ceiling was lower when they signed allowing for talent to be more evenly dispersed across the team salary cao wise? Ovie at 9.5 and Crosby at 8.7. Left room for Malkin/Backstrom ++++++.

I believe this is an important topic to discuss as we see teams like Edmonton, Calgary and maybe Toronto have handed out outrageous contracts to players who are under performing or do not have enough talent around them to produce. By taking contracts with such high cap did these players and teams price themselves out of a cup?

The Oilers are a prime example of this.....the GM basically humilated Campbell but is to blind to see that

A, His team is rocking 8 entry levelish salaries
B. He has a defense men Nurse signed to a horrible contract forever
c. He has pretty much over paid the remaining D.
d. Half the forwards are warm bodies
e. Not sure Evander Kane is wearing his skates on the right feet this year
f. Brown is now "injured" plays one more game and gets a pay day?

But alas, Holland will likely bring in a new goalie to victimize while living dream on the carousel of insanity and ignorance.

Yes, if MacD would had taken a paycut, the Oilers would had been able to pay Nurse 10+ mils, and that would had made a huge difference.

 

[Bounces R Way]

If you can't build a competent defense, acquire some cheapish scoring depth, and find a decent starting goalie with ~70 million dollars of cap space you're not doing a good job as a GM.

 

[Video Nasty]

As always, let’s not let little things like the facts stand in the way of whatever narrative is trying to be spun.

Salary cap was $50.3 million for the 2007-2008 season, when Crosby signed his extension of 5 years/$43.5 million/$8.7 million per season through 2012-2013, when the cap grew to $60 million. His salary was 17.3% of the cap in year one and 14.5% by the end.

Salary cap was $75 million for the 2017-2018 season, when McDavid signed his extension of 8 years/$100 million/$12.5 million per season through 2025-2026. His salary was 16.6% of the cap in year one. The cap is currently $83.5 million, so 15.0% right now. It is projected to be $92 million for the final year of his contract, so 13.6% by the end.

Crosby would sign his 12 year contract for the same $8.7 million after that and for good reason. He had every reason in the world to believe that he would be surrounded by a good team and competent moves would be made to help him with that freed up money.

McDavid’s second contract has actually been a lower hit to his team’s cap than Crosby’s second contract. The excuse that they can’t surround him better because he’s making too much is simply invalid and untrue. He thus has no reason whatsoever to have faith in management to surround him with the proper tools needed, because they haven’t done it up to this point and there’s no assurance they will do so in the near future when the time comes for the next contract.

 

[Svencouver]

The bigger problems are that the roster construction of EDM and TML are horrible, they have shit defense, their GMs did an awful job building around their core, have historically paid bad players way too much, have struggled to develop young talent and integrate depth, and have had mediocre coaching. The quality of the PIT, LAK, TBL, and CHI teams that won multiple cups in the last decade is simply a cut above. The 2010s pens teams are the worst out of that cohort, but Crosby and Malkin are just that good.

 

[BraveCanadian]

I don't know if they have, but Matthew$ is sure trying to!

 

[danisonfire]

As always, let’s not let little things like the facts stand in the way of whatever narrative is trying to be spun.

Salary cap was $50.3 million for the 2007-2008 season, when Crosby signed his extension of 5 years/$43.5 million/$8.7 million per season through 2012-2013, when the cap grew to $60 million. His salary was 17.3% of the cap in year one and 14.5% by the end.

Salary cap was $75 million for the 2017-2018 season, when McDavid signed his extension of 8 years/$100 million/$12.5 million per season through 2025-2026. His salary was 16.6% of the cap in year one. The cap is currently $83.5 million, so 15.0% right now. It is projected to be $92 million for the final year of his contract, so 13.6% by the end.

Crosby would sign his 12 year contract for the same $8.7 million after that and for good reason. He had every reason in the world to believe that he would be surrounded by a good team and competent moves would be made to help him with that freed up money.

McDavid’s second contract has actually been a lower hit to his team’s cap than Crosby’s second contract. The excuse that they can’t surround him better because he’s making too much is simply invalid and untrue. He thus has no reason whatsoever to have faith in management to surround him with the proper tools needed, because they haven’t done it up to this point and there’s no assurance they will do so in the near future when the time comes for the next contract.

What did the other player contracts look like? Actual question. If all the role players and second tier players are eating up a higher % of the cap then it is harder to build a cap compliant roster.

You showed that the difference between Crosby and McDavid's cap % is minimal. that isn't the issue. I remember a lot of contracts going up around that time.. That could make it harder to have a big contract like that and still ice a strong team (today).

In 2012, Crosby signed for 8.7m / year. In 2013 David Clarkson was signed for 5.25m / year. When Crosby came into the league, Clarkson's were not being offered 5.25m / year. You could get support for the stars at a more cap friendly rate. This seems like the issue more-so than McDavid's contract.

 

[beowulf]

Did Eichel with Vegas last year? He makes $10M taking up about 13% of last years cap? It's up to management to fill the roster out properly like Tampa was able to do even though they had 4 guys that took up what 30 to 40% of their cap space the years they won the cups?

 

[Toby91ca]

Were Ovechkin and Crosby's generational talents more successful due to the fact that the max contract ceiling was lower when they signed

Right away I look at Ovechkin signing for 19% of the cap compared to 16.7% for McDavid and 15.9% for Matthews (which hasn't even started yet) and don't understand your logic.

 

[surixon]

What did the other player contracts look like? Actual question. If all the role players and second tier players are eating up a higher % of the cap then it is harder to build a cap compliant roster.

You showed that the difference between Crosby and McDavid's cap % is minimal. that isn't the issue. I remember a lot of contracts going up around that time.. That could make it harder to have a big contract like that and still ice a strong team (today).

In 2012, Crosby signed for 8.7m / year. In 2013 David Clarkson was signed for 5.25m / year. When Crosby came into the league, Clarkson's were not being offered 5.25m / year. You could get support for the stars at a more cap friendly rate. This seems like the issue more-so than McDavid's contract.

You can always find deals for support pieces. Teams do it all the time these days. It's up to management to identify the correct ones and that is imo where the Oilers have come up short.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

check cap % not actual dollars thanks close thread

 

[syz]

You can have those contracts on your team as long as you don't also have a bunch of Darnell Nurse and Jack Campbell cap hits as well.

 

[ChrisProngersEYE]

Evander Kane has 8 points in his last 7 games and is second in the NHL in hits. Brown's cap hit this season is only 775K so his cap hit has no bearing on this season. It will next season but that has nothing to do with right now. Contracts like Campbell, Ceci, and I would argue Bouchard are the issue. Nurse could play on the powerplay making Bouchard basically not needed at all, His 3.9 could be used to try and get a more defensive right handed d-man to play with Nurse so Nurse is not stuck with Ceci who likely could be replaced by a d-man making half as much.

There is lots of other moves that are issues, not McDavid's contract.

NHL Network was hammering Kane's play very hard on todays show, so that is where I got that general take.

 

[DamonDRW]

Mathews - yes, McDavid - no.

 

[Cup Or Bust]

NHL Network was hammering Kane's play very hard on todays show, so that is where I got that general take.

His first 5 games were not good, but the last 7 games he has finally started to look like his normal self before his injury last season. He's been one of their better players recently. Seems like a weird time to criticize him. To each their own I guess.