Has Mike Sullivan Been Fired yet

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Here's the cool thing about setting up to chase 1st overall picks by being bad for a few years in the hopes of trying to land franchise pillars at the top of the draft; even if you miss out on 1st overall because of the lotto, you're still getting a shot to draft an exceptional prospect.

If your attempt at a retool doesn't work, and it almost certainly won't if you're a team in the Pens' position, you're probably a team hovering around the WC spot ad infinitum.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Not really…I mean we developed two lower ranked players in the last 13 years, Rust and Guentzel…either there isn’t more “control” than just luck or our front office and development team is/was terrible, which is probably the case in some respects, or there’s a lot more luck and less control than you’re suggesting …thinks there some of both there…at least with getting top three picks, the odds are higher you have an elite NHL player and in a shorter amount of time than the Dallas route

The front office was terrible. Rutherford's drafts were atrocious. When countless others have drafted and developed NHL players over the same time period with similar picks, it falls back on the scouting and development of the Pens.

Yeah, the Pens didn't have first round picks, but you can get NHL players elsewhere.

 

[Gurglesons]

The front office was terrible. Rutherford's drafts were atrocious. When countless others have drafted and developed NHL players over the same time period with similar picks, it falls back on the scouting and development of the Pens.

Yeah, the Pens didn't have first round picks, but you can get NHL players elsewhere.

Weird how this is a thing, but Dubas isn’t criticized for not doing it the last few years and burning assets that got San Jose a 1st, our own 1st and a 2nd for a player he now is subtly calling out in the media

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Weird how this is a thing, but Dubas isn’t criticized for not doing it the last few years and burning assets that got San Jose a 1st, our own 1st and a 2nd for a player he now is subtly calling out in the media

Weird how you can evaluate Rutherford's drafting and development because he was on the job from summer of 2014 to January 2021, which means enough time has elapsed to fully evaluate how he used those picks. Whereas Dubas has had two total drafts and has had two off seasons with vastly different purposes.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Dan Bylsma is the best example of a coach who would "get hired the minute he got fired" not succeeding anywhere else as an NHL head coach.

It's probably not fair to blame him for either team that fired him, especially Buffalo because I don't think Toe Blake could save that team, but without all-world centers your top two lines, he's merely another passed around coach.

It's the same thing I see happening with Sullivan; he'll bring some excitement to a new team, but once they realize that Sidney Crosby is not coming with him, he'll be lucky to last three seasons at a new destination.

Sadly, we'll never know!

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Weird how this is a thing, but Dubas isn’t criticized for not doing it the last few years and burning assets that got San Jose a 1st, our own 1st and a 2nd for a player he now is subtly calling out in the media

You and I have never seen eye to eye on the Karlsson trade, but if Dubas turns around and trades him NOW, then I am done with this GM too (to go along with the coaching staff and ownership group). The blacklist is getting longer and longer!

You don't trade a point-per-game defenseman after a 53-point season. If his words in the media are a way of motivating Karlsson, fine. But if he truly goes through with a Karlsson trade, he has almost no chance of winning that deal. The only Karlsson deal that helps us is zero retention and getting back a quality center prospect or LD prospect.

Change coaches. See what Karlsson can do without the clones behind the bench, and THEN move on if it does not work. I would bet the farm that all Karlsson needs is a coaching change to get back to 75-80 points.

Karlsson is a LOT better than Mikael Granlund, and all Granlund needed was to get away from this coach to get back to what he was. It is the same thing with Karlsson, only with an even greater improvement once he leaves this coach.

But we will blame Karlsson and send him on his way. Sad.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Sadly, we'll never know!

I've already written off next season.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah I don't think I've ever quite seen a professional sports team, of any sport, willingly throw away a decade of contention because they're too stubborn or stupid to replace a coach. It's wild. Across multiple FO regimes and ownership groups, Sullivan's untouchable regardless of results.

Really puts weight behind the theory that he's only here because it's what Sid wants. There's really no other way to explain his job security over the years with several different bosses.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

You and I have never seen eye to eye on the Karlsson trade, but if Dubas turns around and trades him NOW, then I am done with this GM too (to go along with the coaching staff and ownership group). The blacklist is getting longer and longer!

You don't trade a point-per-game defenseman after a 53-point season. If his words in the media are a way of motivating Karlsson, fine. But if he truly goes through with a Karlsson trade, he has almost no chance of winning that deal. The only Karlsson deal that helps us is zero retention and getting back a quality center prospect or LD prospect.

Change coaches. See what Karlsson can do without the clones behind the bench, and THEN move on if it does not work. I would bet the farm that all Karlsson needs is a coaching change to get back to 75-80 points.

Karlsson is a LOT better than Mikael Granlund, and all Granlund needed was to get away from this coach to get back to what he was. It is the same thing with Karlsson, only with an even greater improvement once he leaves this coach.

But we will blame Karlsson and send him on his way. Sad.

You trade Karlsson for the same reason you'd trade Rust and Rakell - you get a quality return with prospects and picks you can use to either develop and become contributors or trade to acquire young talent.

If Karlsson was seven years younger, sure. But he's in his mid 30s. He doesn't serve a purpose here long-term.

 

[Gurglesons]

You trade Karlsson for the same reason you'd trade Rust and Rakell - you get a quality return with prospects and picks you can use to either develop and become contributors or trade to acquire young talent.

If Karlsson was seven years younger, sure. But he's in his mid 30s. He doesn't serve a purpose here long-term.

Getting a 2nd round pick for EK while adding a 3rd and a 5th doesn’t exactly equate to that….

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Getting a 2nd round pick for EK while adding a 3rd and a 5th doesn’t exactly equate to that….

Well it's a good thing I'm not GM, then.

Me sharing a bad trade proposal on a message board does not invalidate the worthiness of trading Karlsson.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Yeah I don't think I've ever quite seen a professional sports team, of any sport, willingly throw away a decade of contention because they're too stubborn or stupid to replace a coach. It's wild. Across multiple FO regimes and ownership groups, Sullivan's untouchable regardless of results.

Well the same exact thing is playing out on the south side.

 

[LOGiK]

Yeah I don't think I've ever quite seen a professional sports team, of any sport, willingly throw away a decade of contention because they're too stubborn or stupid to replace a coach. It's wild. Across multiple FO regimes and ownership groups, Sullivan's untouchable regardless of results.

Really puts weight behind the theory that he's only here because it's what Sid wants. There's really no other way to explain his job security over the years with several different bosses.

But before you can say Sid approves of this scoundrel... one would have to ask, would Sid accept these results to protect a fraud over his career?

Difficult question.

 

[Khelandros]

I hope Dolan offers Sullivan stupid NY money.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Yeah I don't think I've ever quite seen a professional sports team, of any sport, willingly throw away a decade of contention because they're too stubborn or stupid to replace a coach. It's wild. Across multiple FO regimes and ownership groups, Sullivan's untouchable regardless of results.

Really puts weight behind the theory that he's only here because it's what Sid wants. There's really no other way to explain his job security over the years with several different bosses.

But even that makes no sense. Sid LIVED success through a coaching change NOT ONCE but TWICE! I mean, if this team always won the Cup with one coach, then yeah I get it.

If he still thinks Sullivan is his best pathway to the playoffs and another shot at the Cup, then the day he was cleared of his last concussion all those years ago was clearly a horrible misdiagnosis.

The man is clearly still concussed if he thinks Mike Sullivan can still take him to the promised land. Hell, he was on the WINNING side against Mike Sullivan at the 4 Nations.

No, the theory that Sidney Crosby is keeping Mike Sullivan employed in Pittsburgh means that the Pittsburgh captain is literally the dumbest human being on planet Earth.

You trade Karlsson for the same reason you'd trade Rust and Rakell - you get a quality return with prospects and picks you can use to either develop and become contributors or trade to acquire young talent.

If Karlsson was seven years younger, sure. But he's in his mid 30s. He doesn't serve a purpose here long-term.

You know who does not serve a purpose here long term (or short term or any term) anymore?

M.S.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

But even that makes no sense. Sid LIVED success through a coaching change NOT ONCE but TWICE! I mean, if this team always won the Cup with one coach, then yeah I get it.

If he still thinks Sullivan is his best pathway to the playoffs and another shot at the Cup, then the day he was cleared of his last concussion all those years ago was clearly a horrible misdiagnosis.

The man is clearly still concussed if he thinks Mike Sullivan can still take him to the promised land. Hell, he was on the WINNING side against Mike Sullivan at the 4 Nations.

No, the theory that Sidney Crosby is keeping Mike Sullivan employed in Pittsburgh means that the Pittsburgh captain is literally the dumbest human being on planet Earth.




You know who does not serve a purpose here long term (or short term or any term) anymore?

M.S.

I think it's just a situation where Sid's comfortable and believes Sullivan's a great coach, so the organization backs off even attempting to question whether he's the right fit behind the bench. I don't think Sid is stepping in on meetings and demanding Sully remain coach or anything like that, but people are out of their minds if they think Sid isn't the main reason multiple ownerships and FO regimes turn a blind eye to Sullivan's repeated and worsening failures over the course of nearly a decade.

Yeah, it's up to the FO or ownership to step in and do their jobs, putting aside all this sentimental bullshit for the good of the team, but there's a reason they simply refuse to even entertain the idea, and it's Sid. /shrug

 

[PamBallam]

I get why Sid is loyal to Sully. Those back to back cups (with back to back conn smythes) really solidified his legacy. But Sid's been in the NHL for 20 years, he knows the business. He got over Bylsma being fired, and got over Fleury and Guentzel being traded. He'd get over Sullivan being fired too. I think the only thing that would truly piss Sid off is trading Geno.

 

[Gliff]

Sell me why the Ducks shouldn't want Sullivan so I can sell other Ducks fans. Some people are leaning him and I trust you all in your distain.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sell me why the Ducks shouldn't want Sullivan so I can sell other Ducks fans. Some people are leaning him and I trust you all in your distain.

Well he won’t be available so.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Sell me why the Ducks shouldn't want Sullivan so I can sell other Ducks fans. Some people are leaning him and I trust you all in your distain.

He might be fine there.. I dont know anything about where your team is at with age and experience of players

He's grown stale here

He hasn't been playing guys to their strengths lately, hasn't been covering for deficiencies, hasn't been thinking outside the box strategy-wise, and just seems to be baffled yet unconcerned.

In my opinion. I'm not digging up stats or screen grabs to support my position.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Sell me why the Ducks shouldn't want Sullivan so I can sell other Ducks fans. Some people are leaning him and I trust you all in your distain.

He seems unwilling or simply unable to coach young guys. Has no time for prospects going through growing pains. Fails to play guys to their strengths as players (be it line combos, spot in the lineup, special teams usage, etc). Is stubborn to a spiteful degree; he -will- be correct, even if it's only once out of 100 times. Seems to really despise any player speaking off the cuff/candidly to the media.

Mostly it boils down to the fact that there may indeed be a good, smart coach in there, but it's vastly overshadowed by the guy's ego, which routinely sabotages any and all coaching smarts and positive attributes he may have.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Sell me why the Ducks shouldn't want Sullivan so I can sell other Ducks fans. Some people are leaning him and I trust you all in your distain.

No, you want him.

You want him so much that your team owners should pay ANYTHING to get him out of Pittsburgh.

Just trust me, bro.