Has Marc-Andre Fleury become overrated in recent years?

[The Gr8 Dane]

Absolutely overated but still had a good career.

 

[PaulD]

He can't really hear what you are saying because he’s got two Stanley Cup rings plugging his ears.

He’s probably flipping you off with the third one.

and a 3rd ring for a spare ear piece...
with 2 more appearances in the final

I know. I'm going to get a lot of flack for this. I think he's a very good goalie and his longevity speaks for itself, but I don't think he was the best-of-the-best for his generation. Hot take: I don't think Marc-Andre Fleury was ever consistently a top 5 goalie in the NHL. I still think being top 10 over stretches is impressive, but I don't understand how some people can justify putting him over Lundqvist or Price. Still a HHOF and a good goalie.

2005-2010
I'd comfortably put these goalies over him:
Brodeur
Luongo
Kiprusoff
Lundqvist
Nabokov
Thomas
Miller

2010-2015:
Statistically, Fleury's worst 5-year stretch. Lost his starting job a couple times and was often dubbed as a "choker" in the playoffs:
Lundqvist
Price
Quick
Rinne
Rask
Luongo
*I think you could argue Crawford here too

2015-2020
Vasilevsiky
Price
Bobrovsky
Rask
Bishop
Rinne
Lundqvist
(More of a case for Fleury here, but still not very convincing).

I know he won the Vezina in 2021, but would you actually consider him to be top 5 tendy in 2021? Over Vasi, Helle, Saros, Shersterkin and others?? nN doubt a great season by him, but I felt like he was given the Vezina as a gift.

Seen him beat the Aves on week end and the Flower played frigging great.!
Overrated........could not be further from the truth

 

[DieSendungmitderMaus]

Some people have certainly chosen to forget how much Pens fans wanted to run him out of town in the early to mid 2010s and that it was entirely justified. I'm not really one to put much stock into who is or isn't a playoff performer (and MAF's postseason showings before and after that seem to confirm that view), but he really tanked the chances of typically very good Pens teams for half a decade. Again, I'm not really trying to do too much with that, but it's funny to think about when nowadays people rave about his mental toughness (as some Pens writer for the Athletic did recently in an article about Jarry). I'd say the MAF is overrated argument rests on two pillars- one is the aforementioned group who decided to memory-hole his struggles even though at the time it was pretty much the first thing that came to mind with him (not sure how big this group is) and it just feeling weird that his roller-coaster career ended up with him as a HOF lock when that seemed unthinkable before he went to Vegas. He sure has the longevity though and a decent amount of peak years, even if scattered.

Add the fact that he seems a swell dude and I'm sure not gonna be motivated to go on a crusade against his HOF chances. Can't see many people that will be either, so good for him.

 

[CascadiaPuck]

Don’t think it’s a particularly hot take. People were calling him a first ballot lock for the HHOF before he received his first Vezina nomination (which resulted in a win but happened something like 15 years into his career).

Seems like a nice guy. Good longevity. There are a few goalies who overlapped with him a lot that I’d take over him though for the HHOF.

Edit: I have also seen some folks use his Olympic gold medal in 2010 as part of his argument for HHOF. Dude didn’t touch the ice. Again, don’t dislike the guy. But do think he’s overrated.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Fleury won the actual SCF in 2017 by beating the Caps, with a shutout in game 7 as the cherry on top.

The Senators sent Fleury packing in the Conference finals, and didn’t play anymore, he became the backup after that, the rest of the way.

 

[LokiDog]

I don’t think Fleury is overrated. I think most people see him for what he is/was which is a very good goalie with a long and successful career but was never really one of the top 3-5 goalies in the league at any given time.

I think you might be confusing “loved” with overrated. I think he’s accurately rated. I think he’s loved for his personality, being fun, being good natured and all around very likable. Being loved doesn’t make you overrated, but it will land you more fans than you’d have otherwise.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Thread 'HOH Top 60 Goaltenders of All Time (2024 Edition)'

Oct 14, 2024

The following is the still-ongoing list of the top goaltenders from all of hockey history, as determined by the History of Hockey community at HFBoards:

Rank​	Name​	Height​	Weight​	Born​	Career​	Nationality​	Birthplace​
1​	Dominik Hasek​	6'1"​	166​	1965​	1980-2011​	Czech​	Paradubice...​

• Dr John Carlson
• Replies: 14
• Forum: The History of Hockey

• 

We just voted him in at 47th all-time in the HoH goalie list. It's higher than I went, but not by much.

 

[SirKillalot]

Key pts
3 cup wins

Chris Osgood Stats and News | NHL.com

 

[SteelCityCannon]

He's the type of player that his haters are too hard on and his fans overrate.

He's a damn good goalie. Never was the best for a long stretch, but would be an upgrade for most teams.

 

[tantalum]

In NHL history:

Regular season
3rd in GP
2nd in W
12th in SO

Playoffs
3rd in GP
4th in wins

WJC top goaltender, WJC MVP, Vezina, Jennings, 3 Stanley Cups, 5 all star games, all decade team (2010s..not an award per se but it was a NHL thing), second all-star team

He WILL be a first ballot hall of fame inductee. not sure how you can overrate that. The presence of this thread in and of itself suggests the opposite.

 

[NVious]

Not really, he was a very streaky guy that put together some good-great streaks. I don't think anybody has him as some all time legend, just somebody that had a great career. He is also a great guy and had fantastic longevity, so there's that too.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Who puts him above Lunqvist and Price???

Fleury appropriately belongs in the Hall of Very Good But Never Great. His likability and resurgence in Vegas gets him a Vezina. Having started only 36 games he sets a record for being awarded a Vezina with the fewest starts.

He seems like a great guy and teammate though. And has had a lengthy career as a goaltender in the NHL, which is an accomplishment.

To be clear, he's getting into the HHOF but he was never an elite goaltender.

 

[JohanFranzenstein]

5 Finals appearances, 3 rings, Olympic gold, Vezina, Jennings


Sure, might not be as much individual hardware, but (as much as it pains me) I rank him as one of the top goalies of the 21st century.

 

[MuckOG]

Not really, he was a very streaky guy that put together some good-great streaks. I don't think anybody has him as some all time legend, just somebody that had a great career. He is also a great guy and had fantastic longevity, so there's that too.

Agreed. He's a sure fire HHOFer, but much of that is due to his longevity. He's always been a very good goalie who has had some great stretches. He's also made some incredible saves over his career due to his athleticism.

Nobody gets into the HHOF just because they are well-liked by fans and teammates alike, but it sure doesn't hurt his case, either.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Same number of cups as a starter as Niemi

Give him another half of one because he had 9 of the wins in the 2017 Playoffs.

 

[shello]

Did Fleury even play in those 2016 & 2017 cup runs? Guy has always been legit, but his longevity has made people forget how fringe of a starting goalie he was back in the day

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Did Fleury even play in those 2016 & 2017 cup runs? Guy has always been legit, but his longevity has made people forget how fringe of a starting goalie he was back in the day

He played in both - meaningfully in 2017. Ironic in a post decrying others forgetting.

 

[I am not exposed]

MAF shouldn't be a HHOF'er. But because he was a nice dude and racked up a bunch of wins playing with two of the three best players of his era, he'll unfortunately get in.


Ever notice how after 2009 the Pens didn't make it to the third round again until 2013.... when he was replaced.... and didn't win any more cups until he was again replaced.

This!

He's always been overrated.

 

[Caps8112]

so top 25 all time? Very good goalie and even better person. Don’t think he’s with the all time greats outside of his numbers but he’s no slouch either.

 

[filinski77]

Based purely on Vezina voting finishes, here is how I rank the goalies Fleury has shared good chunks of his career with. Just outside of the top-10 for me, plus he's not great in the playoffs imo. Give it a few more years too and I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple more goalies pass him as well.

Tier 1:
Brodeur = 1/1/1/1/2/2/2/3/3/4/4/5/5/7

Tier 2:
a) Lundqvist = 1/2/3/3/3/4/5/6/6/6
b) Luongo = 2/3/3/4/4/7/7/9/10
c) Hellebuyck = 1/1/2/3/4 (likely to win this year too)

Tier 3:
a) Vasilevskiy = 1/2/3/3/5/6
b) Bobrovsky = 1/1/3/8/8/9
c) Kiprusoff = 1/2/3/5/7/8/8
d) Rinne = 1/2/2/3/7
e) Price = 1/3/4/5/7/9/10

Tier 4:
a) Nabokov = 2/4/4/4/5/6
b) Fleury = 1/4/5/7/8
c) Rask = 1/2/5/7/7
d) Thomas = 1/1/9
e) Holtby = 1/2/4
f) Quick = 2/3/5/9

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

He played in both - meaningfully in 2017. Ironic in a post decrying others forgetting.

His 1 and a third games in 2016 are easy to forget. And in 2017 he lost the starting job again to Murray who finished the Conference Finals and played every game in the Cup Finals.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

 

[SomeDude]

Fleury had some low lows and some high highs. He’s like a gunslinging QB in the NFL. When you rely on your talent and athleticism over mechanics, it’s going to lead to some highlight reel saves and some blunders.

It also didn’t help that he played behind Dan Bylsma’s “system” - if you can call it that, for quite awhile including all of the playoff blowups that gave him his negative reputation. A lot of people do not want to admit it but goalies and their stats are greatly at the mercy of the team around them. It’s no surprise he won his Vezina after he went elsewhere.

I don’t know how he could be overrated when it seems like half the people, at least on here, think he was terrible.

Regardless of how people rate him, he’s been one of the most entertaining goalies of his generation and possibly the last of his kind now that goalies have angles and mechanics drilled into their DNA and don’t just go out there and try to keep the puck out of the net anyway possible which seems to have been MAF’s plan all along.

 

[Hivemind]

MAF cost the Penguins more cup runs than he was pivotal in achieving. He was a back-up for 2 of his 3 Cups there, and spent a long stretch of the 2010s fumbling away playoff chances. His Vezina season with Vegas purged a lot of that from people's memory.

 

[SomeDude]

For those with the mindset that it’s not hard for a goalie to play behind superstar players and just collect wins, why haven’t teams like Edmonton or Toronto been able to find a goalie that lasts more then a season or two?

 

[CascadiaPuck]

5 Finals appearances, 3 rings, Olympic gold, Vezina, Jennings


Sure, might not be as much individual hardware, but (as much as it pains me) I rank him as one of the top goalies of the 21st century.

Olympic gold medalist- he didn’t touch the ice. Five finals appearances - what portion not on the ice? ONE top 5 Vezina votes finish (I think). I’m not saying he’s not really good - and maybe he does belong in the Hall. But it’s this kind of strange accounting that makes him overrated.