Has JR let us down again? How could he not know about Joni?

[bluedevil58*]

Hey Guys,

With the recent news about Pitkanen's injury I can't help but think that this should have been known months ago. I may be flipping out a bit early but from what I am reading this could be a season ending/career ending injury. How on earth does a GM not know if his best defense men is going to be healthy come the start of the season with an injury like this? At the very least have a clue.

This doctor may come in Monday and say all is well but I highly doubt it. It's going to be bad bad bad news. This all could have been found out and corrected via free agency but now it's a bit too late for that. Is it normal for players to go dark and them up and say: "I am injured and can't play." weeks before pre-season?

Click to read more...

 

[Hornswaggle]

Supposedly the agent said everything was going well early in the offseason. He would have no reason not to believe him.

 

[bleedgreen]

Similar thing happened with ruutu last year. They can't follow the players home and watch them. From my understanding Pitts had his agent tell the team last week. I'm not a fan of the guy so I'm pretty biased, I'm not surprised at all they didn't know till now. It's on the player to tell the team when something is going as wrong as its being implied here. There was also mention of a "setback" in one of the intial articles, and I didn't understand if he wasn't progressing well was the setback or if something had just happened that had set him back which would be just bad luck. Either way, I'm not sure I'd pin this on jr, unless you think he needs to micro manage the guys more than he does.

 

[Joe McGrath]

I just can't believe there are people that are surprised by this. When,at any time, has Pitkanen returned from an injury in the original anticipated time frame? This injury ended Pat Paeke's career and significantly alters the way he walks for the rest of his life. Why on earth would we assume Pitkanen would return from that in 3 months?

 

[Anton Babchuk]

JR lies. There was a point early in the offseason where he said Staal was ahead of schedule and at the same time Staal gave an interview to a Thunder Baby newspaper where he said he was behind schedule. Wouldn't be surprised if he knew that Pitkanen wasn't going to be ready a long time ago.

On a related note, I wonder if there's been any other team that has had significant players get injured before the season started/not recover from prior season's injury as often as the Hurricanes have. Stillman, Kaberle, Williams, Walker, Ruutu, Pitkanen. That's almost one a year. In almost every case the player was generally useless after returning, too.

 

[sheriff bart]

While it is possible that they just found out a week ago from the agent, I find that highly unbelievable. Joni would have nothing to gain by lying about his progress. If it were a setback, it would be a hell of a setback if now he can't put weight on it. It seems much more believable that he wasn't progressing as was hoped. After hearing of how it affected Pat Peake, I read a little on the injury and it is tough to recover from. I would think that if I was curious enough to do that, somebody on the Canes staff would be curious too.

Other than that, one possibility would be that they didn't stay on top of Joni's progress. Seeing as all it takes is an email to his doctor or PT person, no communication seems unlikely. If they didn't check occasionally on his progress, I would call that incompetence.

Now a more likely scenario in my eyes is that they thought he may be ready and were hoping for the best. JR made the Sekera and Komisarek deals and all of a sudden or defense looked better. The team got in season ticket sales mode and all was well. If they started to realize a few weeks ago that Joni was not going to be ready and announced that, then that kills momentum with sales since the defense doesn't look as good. This is a particularly strong argument if they were think of filling the slot from within the organization.

They could always say that they were thinking he would be ready from the original recovery estimate. Joni may have suffered a small setback, but was he on a track to be ready by the start of camp as we were told he would be. Now that camp is closer, they announce his slow recovery and say they want to see what the players look like before making a move. After saying they have to wait until Monday to talk to his doctor, that does not sound like good news.

 

[Frank Booth239*]

I have a hard time believing that anybody weighing the decision to purchase season tickets would be swayed by the injury status of Pitkanen.

I could see that happening with Cam...but not Joni.

 

[DaveG]

I bring up what I did in the other thread. It's entirely possible that JR has worked out something in principle with Hainsey involving just this situation. There was a ******** of noise about him ending up here this offseason, and then, absolutely nothing for the next month and a half, even involving other teams? Let's just say I won't even be remotely shocked if there's an announcement within a few days if not a few hours of the news on Pitkanen.

 

[sheriff bart]

I have a hard time believing that anybody weighing the decision to purchase season tickets would be swayed by the injury status of Pitkanen.

I could see that happening with Cam...but not Joni.

Not just because of a player, but the general direction the team was going in the off season. The defense sure looked better a week ago than it does now.

 

[rocky7]

first off, i just don't see the advantage to anyone to attempt to hide anything or mislead anyone. however, as soon as this came to light i began to question what was up because the information provided from both sides just didn't smell right to me. that said, the info provided was/is scant leaving us to only speculate how things transpired and what the truth is. it does seem like an odd situation and set of circumstances. regardless, you have to feel for Pitkanen given his unlucky injury history (has missed alot of games in the last couple of years that has negatively impacted his play) and this particularly bad one that threatens his career. even if he were to recover to some degree i doubt he could ever regain his game to standards prior to being inflicted by injury. the cumulative effects may be just too much.

we shall see how it all shakes out but i do feel that his hockey days are probably over barring some sort of miracle. the team is probably better off down the road a piece all things considered and as sad as it is for Joni, he will most likely deal with it as well as can be expected and move on with his family. pessimistic perhaps but realistic given this type of injury, report from the doctor and past health issues combined.

it's a real sh***y deal to be sure.

and no i don't feel "let down" by JR or Pitkanen in this situation. i think they probably handled it the best they could given the gravity of the situation, or the possible sensitivity of it.

 

[Unsustainable]

Eh, maybe we get Hainsey. Situation fixed.

 

[Ole Gil]

In hindsight, it's possible all this Hainsey/Morrow talk was a Plan B JR had in place should Joni/Ruutu have setbacks in their surgery?

 

[Vagrant]

What's to know about Joni? Were the results released early?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

What's to know about Pitkanen is that it's 4 weeks to the start of the season and he can't put weight on his foot. While the severity of the injury and length of time he'll be out is not known (weeks? months? Year? career?), it's pretty reasonable to conclude that he won't be ready for the start of the season at a minimum.

Heck, we were discussing this very scenario way back in April, then again before the draft and UFA periods in June/July. Page 4 of this thread for instance.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1410075&page=4

 

[dammit100]

The team has been aware of Joni's situation every step of the way; the media (see: Chip) hasn't.

 

[Vagrant]

What's to know about Pitkanen is that it's 4 weeks to the start of the season and he can't put weight on his foot. While the severity of the injury and length of time he'll be out is not known (weeks? months? Year? career?), it's pretty reasonable to conclude that he won't be ready for the start of the season at a minimum.

Heck, we were discussing this very scenario way back in April, then again before the draft and UFA periods in June/July. Page 4 of this thread for instance.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1410075&page=4

The uncertainty of his injury is the biggest factor we're dealing with here. Even then there were sources saying that he would be ready for the start of the season. It just shows how little we actually know about what's going on with him. To suggest, as this thread does, that JR "let us down" by not being able to predict the future of a player who might in a best case scenario miss a couple of weeks to start the season is ridiculous. I understand the implications of the worst case scenario, but it seems a bit chicken little to already be scrambling for a replacement for a player whose status is uncertain. Especially when we have Monday as the day we're going to find out something concrete. There's plenty of time to panic. Why expedite it?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The uncertainty of his injury is the biggest factor we're dealing with here. Even then there were sources saying that he would be ready for the start of the season. It just shows how little we actually know about what's going on with him. To suggest, as this thread does, that JR "let us down" by not being able to predict the future of a player who might in a best case scenario miss a couple of weeks to start the season is ridiculous. I understand the implications of the worst case scenario, but it seems a bit chicken little to already be scrambling for a replacement for a player whose status is uncertain. Especially when we have Monday as the day we're going to find out something concrete. There's plenty of time to panic. Why expedite it?

Oh I agree that the premise of the thread "JR let us down" is ridiculous. But I really don't see panic (ok, maybe a couple posts). There's nothing wrong with discussing a possible replacement (the same way we discuss next year's lines during the offseason before we even know who is drafted, re-signed, signed, traded etc.). If it comes back next week that he'll be back in a few weeks, then all we've done is wasted a few key strokes. If he's out longer, we just started the discussion already.

 

[rocky7]

for me personally it's basically this that has brought up questions (understanding that fans are never privy to much info):

approx. 1-2 mos. ago all was fine and on track.

seemingly suddenly, he can't put any weight on his foot.

raises some questions is all. many really.

 

[WalkerBabe]

I don't believe, with the millions at stake in this business of the NHL, that JR and PK did not make it a point to know Joni's status all along. We already knew the defense was shaky, going into this new division, even with Joni healthy ... I think this organization always does things the cheapest way, and so far, the fans take it and keep standing behind them. I don't think it's a coincidence that this news was released a day before the guys start real practice ...

I think, to a lot of fans, me included, it does make a difference Joni not being on board. I think it's awful news, and I'm glad that I have not bought a handful of tickets. Show me something first, JR!

 

[faulkingdynamic]

Forslund said this morning on the radio that he believes that JR knew Joni wouldn't be able to start the season but they had hoped that there would be progress by the time he got to Raleigh and Joni would be able to jump back in at some point during the season. The latest pictures made it clear that he was done for the year. There is no negligence on management on this issue, IMO.

 

[WalkerBabe]

Sorry ... the organization surely knew how devastating this injury could be, from the start. They talked to Peeke in Detroit about his experience, when this happened to Joni. If they didn't have the good sense to stay on top of what was going on with Joni, shame on them! I'm sure, considering what these players are paid, that ownership has the right to see x-rays, talk to doctors, etc. during the process. This is a business! I feel sure that they knew!

 

[DaveG]

There absolutely is a good reason why you haven't seen anything done so far. What the heck happens if Joni actually IS ready faster then anticipated and we've already spent the cap space we gain from the LTIR on other players? Teams aren't exactly going to be lining up to bail out a team that's over the cap because of their own mistakes, especially when half the league is tight up to begin with because the cap went down. Up to here JR played this right, it's what happens from the announcement on is what will make the difference in this situation.

Right now things are likely in negotiation mode with various options (trade, UFA, etc). If Hainsey's smart he's trying to play this into whatever he can from us. As is every GM in the league. As is every other player agent. Have some patience, and when we see what the solution is then and only then react.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

All I see here is a complaints from a few people here who have never actually run anything.

There are no crystal balls in life, folks. You make your plan A, you make your plan B, and you have plan C in mind, but hope you never get to it.

Plan A: Joni is good. Plan B: have your eyes open for free agents who can eat minutes. Which is pretty much exactly what it looks like what they're doing from the cheap seats over here. So right now, plan B has become plan A, and I guarantee you they're spending plenty of time in moving plan C up to plan B. I don't happen to know what plan C is, and neither do you.

Of course, there are many personnel geniuses around here would have successfully traded Joni the day before his heel injury for 5 first round picks. Now that JasonK is out on his ass, maybe there's a place for you in the organ-eye-zation, you guys!

--hank

 

[the halleJOKEL]

Plan C: Dismantle the team.

 

[DaveG]

Plan C is clearly move to Moose Jaw.