Has Germany surpassed Sweden?

[Eye of Ra]

Yes their team is recently winning more than Sweden's team

winning what? sweden won gold 2017 and 2018

 

[Czechboy]

Haven’t thought about this development with goalies and quite how uncommon it’s become for them to immediately make the NHL, but it makes sense, thanks for the insights.

It’s interesting how teams are taking a longer route with goaltenders specifically. I think defensemen also are guys where it’s become more rare for teams to afford prospects ice time in the NHL without acclimatizing them for a while, but if I’m to rationalize it, goaltenders then defensemen are generally the most pressured positions on a team. A forward not quite ready for big NHL minutes you can to a larger extent afford burying in the lineup and have them work on their game with sheltered minutes at the NHL level, whereas shoddy defense and goaltending becomes glaring flaws on the team and may devastate the prospects development and resolve — if I am to guess. Also, you might want players getting comfortable utilizing their upside in a good way on a lower level before telling them to go out and play their game against the best players in the world, so as not to close the ceiling on and limiting them. But this is just inference on my end. It just seems goaltenders then defensive prospects from Sweden and Europe specifically, but probably in general, are more likely to be kept percolating in the AHL for a while.

Something tells me there are more kids from other European countries than the Czech Republic coming to Sweden, without looking deeper into it, which has made me suppose that the Czech Republic still is regarded as strong a spot for prospects to develop as any place else, but I haven’t looked deeper into it. Pastrnak of course is a huge name who came through the Swedish youth leagues though. My team Luleå has Radek Muzik now who has become something of a fan favorite, and traditionally we’ve had some Czech players who were big names play for us (Kucera, Hostak, Skrbek, Chabada, and a couple more), however these generally arrived as veterans with pro experience. According to Muzik, it was because of our legendary star forward Jiri Kucera that he decided to come to Luleå, apparently they’re buddies.

In recent times, we’ve had kids from Slovakia (Cehlarik, Jaros), Switzerland (Kukan) and Austria (Komarek) make their way to the SHL and beyond through our youth system: it’s just felt as if we haven’t attracted Czech talent — either youth prospects or veterans — for some time, but I have no idea how common it is for Czech juniors to go to Sweden otherwise.

It’s also just a smaller world nowadays. One of our biggest young talents right now is a Finnish kid named Olli Nikupeteri, and I have no reason to believe it’s because he doubted the quality of player development in Finland that he opted for Luleå.

It's a controversial take but I've always said the AHL is the second best league in the world becausae they produce the majority of NHL D and Goalies. Very few drafted D are in the NHL right away. Very few come straight from Europe and join NHL. It's more apparant with goalies.

Now, if I couldn't make the NHL but was a good pro hockey player.. the last place I play is the AHL.lol I go to Europe and have a nice life and career.

Czechs are going to Finland, Sweden and CHL. Very few stay in Czech and I don't blame them in the slightest. Eg. if I had a son and lived in Czech and I htink he can get drafted or be an NHL star.. we are gone to Sweden, Finland or CHL. It's a real shame.

Realitstically, not much hope from Czech league. Hertl went straight from Extraliga to NHL. So did Vejmelka.. that is about it.

It was telling at World Juniors when national teams coaches son David Spacek is in the CHL. Even the parents involved in Czech hockey at the highest level are not keeping them there.

Basically the Czechs can stay in very poor Junior leagues or a crappy 2nd division and not been seen by scouts. If they are good enough to make Extraliga.. most teens play 5 minutes a night and collect pucks.

Eg. the second Swedish league is still very good quality and a great place to develop players. even last year, several Oilers went and played there and I was happy about it - Bouchard and Lagesson. If they sent them to the Czech second division it'd be a waste of time for them.

It's a very old Czech problem and doesn't seem to improve at all.. I personally put a lot of blame on small minded Extraliga coaches who don't care if the Czech kids develop. Jiricek and Kulich are nice exceptions in that they may be first rounders out of Extraliga but that is the exception and not the rule!

And thank you for Pastrnak and Vrana!

Ok, done ranting.lol

 

[Eye of Ra]

Another day with Eye of Ra

But no, seriously, I don't think Germany will surpass Sweden in next 80 years

80 years? thats taking it too far man.

we cant know if prospects will turn out good or bad, its possible germans prospects right now will turn out stronger than swedens prospects

I expected this thread to be "Has Germany surpassed Switzerland" as the title on the main page cuts off. Which is, you know, a pretty interesting debate. And yet..


More interesting debate would be how would the current German team stack up against Hecht, Goc, Seidenberg, Ehrhoff, Greiss/Kolzig, Sturm. People act like Germany appeared from nowhere when in reality, they have hardly taken back the positions they had 10 years ago yet.

‘cmon man

germany actually done better than sweden in the last tournaments and is ahead of sweden on iihf ranknings, so its for sure a debate. we also need to take prospects into the debate, sweden have not impressed the last world juniors.

No, since Germany has always been ahead of Sweden in hockey.

This is not soccer. Forsberg, Sundin, Sedins, Alfredsson, Lidström, Näslund vs Hecht, Goc, Seidenberg, Sturm, Ehrofff, how is this even a debate. Sweden was stronger than Germany.

 

[Lambo]

delete

 

[Lambo]

Yes Germany has surpassed Sweden!

 

[Eye of Ra]

Yes Germany has surpassed Sweden!

you change your mind fast. i saw what u wrote 30 min ago, before you edited.

 

[Lambo]

you change your mind fast. i saw what u wrote 30 min ago, before you edited.

Well i ve learned. Now i see it! Germany > Sweden!

 

[erikhamren]

No, they suck. We have like 100 top prospects the next 3 years, they have like 5. Plus their population is declining, no youth population = No hockey competition

 

[Jumptheshark]

no. Germany has produced some good high end talent but the gap between their high end talent and the next level is huge, Sweden still produces better over all talent

 

[JackSlater]

80 years? thats taking it too far man.

we cant know if prospects will turn out good or bad, its possible germans prospects right now will turn out stronger than swedens prospects





germany actually done better than sweden in the last tournaments and is ahead of sweden on iihf ranknings, so its for sure a debate. we also need to take prospects into the debate, sweden have not impressed the last world juniors.



This is not soccer. Forsberg, Sundin, Sedins, Alfredsson, Lidström, Näslund vs Hecht, Goc, Seidenberg, Sturm, Ehrofff, how is this even a debate. Sweden was stronger than Germany.

You forgot Krupp, conveniently. I'd say he easily tips the balance.

 

[Puck Dogg]

I don't think hockey is even the most popular winter sport in Germany. I had German spouse and I didn't know anyone that followed DEL. Everybody had favorite football club though, one was refereeing and some played Sunday league. I recall seeing some small hockey news but in general the coverage was marginal. Its been some time ago so maybe there's some change but I don't think hockey has took Germany by storm since.

I therefore don't think Germany will bypass Sweden in my lifetime. SHL is the best league in Europe right after KHL and as a whole it is more competitive, even if we leave poor Kunlun out of the equitation. The difference between SKA and Vladivostok is much bigger than Lulea and Djurgarden.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Well i ve learned. Now i see it! Germany > Sweden!

Yes, if we look at the last tournaments. But comparing rosters, Sweden is still stronger imo

 

[Eye of Ra]

You forgot Krupp, conveniently. I'd say he easily tips the balance.

Kronwall, Kim Johnsson, Kenny Jönsson,

 

[Lambo]

Yes, if we look at the last tournaments. But comparing rosters, Sweden is still stronger imo

No Germany have a stronger Roster! Drai - Stutzle - Sturm - Seider > All Swedes. New pecking order: 1. Canada 2. USA 3. Germany 4. Sweden 5. Russia 6. Finland.