Has Connor Bedard quietly became underrated ?

[Darren McCord]

yr 2 Crosby..checks notes has Mario Lemieux, Mark Recci, John LeClair on roster as veteran....Yr 2 Bedard..checks notes has Foligno, Maroon, Bertuzzi on roster as veteran. Bedard absolutely has not put up anything close to Crosby or McDavid but lets not pretend he is playing on anything remotely close to what both of those guys had coming into the league as far as help. Bedard has none end of story

Lemieux did not play. LeClair played 21 games and Recchi was 38yrs old

But Crosby still put up 120 points. 35 ahead of Malkin and 52 ahead of Recchi.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

All we really know at this point is Bedard is not the best player in the world right now. But he has shown a lot of offensive ability in comparison to similarly aged peers (I posted U20 scoring stats from the past 8 years a little upthread, the short of it, is NOBODY is coming in and completely tearing up the NHL right away at the moment). And compared to a lot of players like Celebrini, Michkov, Carlsson or Fantilli that are either right there or not their team's leading scorers, he is far and away asked to carry the biggest offensive scoring load as there hasn't been a teammate to be close to him.

No one is coming in and tearing up the league right away because those kinds of players only come along once every 10-15 years. The next generational player after McDavid hasn't arrived yet.

 

[WarriorofTime]

No one is coming in and tearing up the league right away because those kinds of players only come along once every 10-15 years. The next generational player after McDavid hasn't arrived yet.

That's not really true, objectively though, unless you count players like Tyler Seguin and Matt Duchene, who both had 67 points as teenagers in a low scoring league, amongst the "once every 10-15 years" variety. The current NHL environment is just harder on young players.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

That's not really true, objectively though, unless you count players like Tyler Seguin and Matt Duchene, who both had 67 points as teenagers in a low scoring league, amongst the "once every 10-15 years" variety. The current NHL environment is just harder on young players.

I don't consider 67 points as tearing up the league. Crosby and McDavid both won the art ross as sophomores at 19 yo. 2015-17 was a much tougher scoring environment than now as well.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I don't consider 67 points as tearing up the league. Crosby and McDavid both won the art ross as sophomores at 19 yo. 2015-17 was a much tougher scoring environment than now as well.

Yeah, but there's a lot more going on at the top as well as towards the middle and throughout. Seguin was tied for 26th in league scoring as a 19 year old. Duchene tied for 28th a year earlier. You don't really see those level of prospects anywhere near that high in league scoring right now.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Yeah, but there's a lot more going on at the top as well as towards the middle and throughout. Seguin was tied for 26th in league scoring as a 19 year old. Duchene tied for 28th a year earlier. You don't really see those level of prospects anywhere near that high in league scoring right now.

Yes they were great young players. Finishing top 30 and winning the art ross are still miles apart. I do agree that in general it's a deeper crop of nhl talent that makes it harder for normal top prospects to stand out. But that only furthers my point that there's no Crosby or Mcdavid in the league right now. Because they bypassed everyone and jumped straight to the top. I mean Bedard is still being handily outscored by 37 year old Crosby.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Yes they were great young players. Finishing top 30 and winning the art ross are still miles apart. I do agree that in general it's a deeper crop of nhl talent that makes it harder for normal top prospects to stand out. But that only furthers my point that there's no Crosby or Mcdavid in the league right now. Because they bypassed everyone and jumped straight to the top. I mean Bedard is still being handily outscored by 37 year old Crosby.

But Crosby has been surpassed by a whole bunch of mid-20 somethings. That's my point. Breakouts just come later now. The expectation that the future top scorers will come in and score 100 points right away hasn't really held but people have a tough time adjusting to that. MacKinnon was nowhere near as good as Crosby as a teenager, and his last season and this season to date were better than any season Crosby ever had per adjusted scoring.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

But Crosby has been surpassed by a whole bunch of mid-20 somethings. That's my point. Breakouts just come later now.

For your non generational players yes. McDavid started outscoring him right away. Another McDavid hasn't arrived yet.

 

[WarriorofTime]

For your non generational players yes. McDavid started outscoring him right away. Another McDavid hasn't arrived yet.

McDavid isn't the only player that's outscored Crosby the last 10 years...

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

McDavid isn't the only player that's outscored Crosby the last 10 years...

Right but I'm talking about how McDavid at 19 beat out 29 year old Crosby for the art ross in 16-17, who finished 2nd. No young player like that exists right now capable of doing something like that to MacKinnon or Mcdavid.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Right but I'm talking about how McDavid at 19 beat out 28 year old Crosby for the art ross in 16-17, who finished 2nd. No young player like that exists right now capable of doing something like that to MacKinnon or Mcdavid.

Well yes obviously or it would have happened, but I am just saying the scoring environment hasn't been as kind to young players lately and there is pretty objective evidence. Even when I expand to age 20 Rookies, you got players like Ovechkin and Malkin that destroyed the league day 1. Now the age 20 guys making a big leap are generally ones in their third year. At a certain point, it's a bit simplistic to just call it 8 years of bad drafts. Not like James Hagens or Michael Misa would be expected to be top 10 in scoring next year or anything either. So I guess we'll just keep waiting.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Yeah, but there's a lot more going on at the top as well as towards the middle and throughout. Seguin was tied for 26th in league scoring as a 19 year old. Duchene tied for 28th a year earlier. You don't really see those level of prospects anywhere near that high in league scoring right now.

The biggest difference in today's NHL is that everyone can skate. Young top prospects who maybe used to have a relative speed advantage vs the rest of the league 10-15 years don't really get the same advantage.