Has Connor Bedard quietly became underrated ?

[BHFAN92]

He was thought to potentially be on the level of Crosby/McDavid (I guess you are one of those people). Both players saw their teams take huge point jumps in their 2nd seasons.

yr 2 Crosby..checks notes has Mario Lemieux, Mark Recci, John LeClair on roster as veteran....Yr 2 Bedard..checks notes has Foligno, Maroon, Bertuzzi on roster as veteran. Bedard absolutely has not put up anything close to Crosby or McDavid but lets not pretend he is playing on anything remotely close to what both of those guys had coming into the league as far as help. Bedard has none end of story

 

[WarriorofTime]

How can you say this with certainty? Mario hit another level in his 2nd season on a terrible Pens. Great players tend to produce regardless of their teammates.

Some guys like Crosby hit a high level early and then sort of stagnate, some guys like McDavid hit a high level early and then just keep going, some guys like MacKinnon don't hit a high level early but then eventually do, some guys like Laine even show a lot of promise early but then fade off. It's all a bit early to say... all the stuff with chasing ghosts and I guess sort of debating stuff from two years ago is a bit tedious, but keep can discuss whatever they want.

All we really know at this point is Bedard is not the best player in the world right now. But he has shown a lot of offensive ability in comparison to similarly aged peers (I posted U20 scoring stats from the past 8 years a little upthread, the short of it, is NOBODY is coming in and completely tearing up the NHL right away at the moment). And compared to a lot of players like Celebrini, Michkov, Carlsson or Fantilli that are either right there or not their team's leading scorers, he is far and away asked to carry the biggest offensive scoring load as there hasn't been a teammate to be close to him.

 

[daver]

yr 2 Crosby..checks notes has Mario Lemieux, Mark Recci, John LeClair on roster as veteran....Yr 2 Bedard..checks notes has Foligno, Maroon, Bertuzzi on roster as veteran. Bedard absolutely has not put up anything close to Crosby or McDavid but lets not pretend he is playing on anything remotely close to what both of those guys had coming into the league as far as help. Bedard has none end of story

You should check your notes again.

The 05/06 Pens with those same players were 2nd last in the league with the same winning % as the 24/25 Hawks.

I wonder how Crosby was able to finish 6th in scoring that year?

 

[WarriorofTime]

You should check your notes again.

The 05/06 Pens with those same players were 2nd last in the league with the same winning % as the 24/25 Hawks.

I wonder how Crosby was able to finish 6th in scoring that year?

Lotta powerplays and they didn't struggle as a team to score, just gave up a lot of them

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[Fatass]

Bedard looks like a guy who isn’t having much fun with the game. Maybe too much responsibility as a centre. Play him on the wing.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

yr 2 Crosby..checks notes has Mario Lemieux, Mark Recci, John LeClair on roster as veteran....Yr 2 Bedard..checks notes has Foligno, Maroon, Bertuzzi on roster as veteran. Bedard absolutely has not put up anything close to Crosby or McDavid but lets not pretend he is playing on anything remotely close to what both of those guys had coming into the league as far as help. Bedard has none end of story

As an 18 year old, Crosby was 3rd in the league in scoring in the last 30 games in his rookie season with Andy Hilbert and Colby Armstrong on his wing.

Bedard is about as close to Crosby / McDavid as he is to Kyle Connor.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Bedard is about as close to Crosby / McDavid as he is to Kyle Connor.

Kyle Conner was getting cut from the world juniors at Bedard's age, maybe a bit premature here...

 

[CallMeShaft]

Bedard looks like a guy who isn’t having much fun with the game. Maybe too much responsibility as a centre. Play him on the wing.

Absolutely not.

He generally has looked fine. Maybe a bit frustrated today after getting caved in by the Barkov line today (best line in hockey), but he's generated a good number of chances over the past few weeks and has shown little sign of being frustrated or down.

 

[Fatass]

Absolutely not.

He generally has looked fine. Maybe a bit frustrated today after getting caved in by the Barkov line today (best line in hockey), but he's generated a good number of chances over the past few weeks and has shown little sign of being frustrated or down.

A centre needs to play both ends of the ice, with and without the puck. On the wing Bedard could focus on driving offence. Messier and PK both stated Bedard played soft defensively and that he was then put out on the pp next chance. They said teammates see that soft play and still getting pp and it can influence a room. Those are two guys, especially Messier, who know the game at that level. Play Bedard on the wing and those defensive troubles don’t happen. And it frees him up for more offence.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Absolutely not.

He generally has looked fine. Maybe a bit frustrated today after getting caved in by the Barkov line today (best line in hockey), but he's generated a good number of chances over the past few weeks and has shown little sign of being frustrated or down.

He's not even really "playing" center on a lot of shifts, at least not in the defensive zone.

Kyle Conner was getting cut from the world juniors at Bedard's age, maybe a bit premature here...

Sure, but I'd wager his peak will be closer to a 40+ goal 90+ point scoring forward than a Crosby / McDavid caliber player. I think we'll see him break 100 points at least a few times, but I don't think he'll ever come close to approaching those two.

 

[WarriorofTime]

He's not even really "playing" center on a lot of shifts, at least not in the defensive zone.

Sure, but I'd wager his peak will be closer to a 40+ goal 90+ point scoring forward than a Crosby / McDavid caliber player. I think we'll see him break 100 points at least a few times, but I don't think he'll ever come close to approaching those two.

I think he’s definitely got a shot at an Art Ross if he trends the right direction

 

[CallMeShaft]

A centre needs to play both ends of the ice, with and without the puck. On the wing Bedard could focus on driving offence. Messier and PK both stated Bedard played soft defensively and that he was then put out on the pp next chance. They said teammates see that soft play and still getting pp and it can influence a room. Those are two guys, especially Messier, who know the game at that level. Play Bedard on the wing and those defensive troubles don’t happen. And it frees him up for more offence.

I watched the game, I heard what they had to say. I don't necessarily agree with them.

Bedard played like shit today, most of the team did. His line got caved in against the Barkov line in the first. It happens.

He didn't need to be moved to wing or be sat for an extended amount of time for him to kick it in the ass in the 3rd period.

Generally you'd prefer a more 2-way C over someone like Bedard. But as I, and others, have stated in this thread, there's a lot more options offensively playing the middle of the ice, as opposed to along the boards. Maybe he can excel at playing wing; Kane, Kucherov, Kaprizov, etc. have all had success there while playing a similar style.

But I'd rather he stay at center. He's generating chances at center. He's putting up points at center. Neither are easy to do on this roster. Moving him to wing is simply experimenting with him, seeing if his play can translate there, while leaving a large hole at 1C. As long as he's generating those chances and putting up those points, I'm against those types of experiments.

 

[Fatass]

I watched the game, I heard what they had to say. I don't necessarily agree with them.

Bedard played like shit today, most of the team did. His line got caved in against the Barkov line in the first. It happens.

He didn't need to be moved to wing or be sat for an extended amount of time for him to kick it in the ass in the 3rd period.

Generally you'd prefer a more 2-way C over someone like Bedard. But as I, and others, have stated in this thread, there's a lot more options offensively playing the middle of the ice, as opposed to along the boards. Maybe he can excel at playing wing; Kane, Kucherov, Kaprizov, etc. have all had success there while playing a similar style.

But I'd rather he stay at center. He's generating chances at center. He's putting up points at center. Neither are easy to do on this roster. Moving him to wing is simply experimenting with him, seeing if his play can translate there, while leaving a large hole at 1C. As long as he's generating those chances and putting up those points, I'm against those types of experiments.

There’s a reason why there’s an NHL leadership award with Messier’s name on it. He knows what it takes, and he called out the Hawks for allowing Bedard to play soft defensively and still giving him pp time and how that affects the room.
Playing Bedard on the wing would be better for the player at this point of his development. He would transition to centre over time, as he physically matures and is better able to p look at harder on pucks.
Imo Bedard wasn’t selected for Team Canada at the Four Nations, while another young player in Jarvis was, because of the players’ differences in defensive play. If Bedard had been playing wing, imo, he is on that team because his defensive liabilities wouldn’t be so apparent.
He’s a great young player and future star, but he’s not (imo) being put in the best situation for his growth as a winner.

 

[WarriorofTime]

There’s a reason why there’s an NHL leadership award with Messier’s name on it. He knows what it takes, and he called out the Hawks for allowing Bedard to play soft defensively and still giving him pp time and how that affects the room.
Playing Bedard on the wing would be better for the player at this point of his development. He would transition to centre over time, as he physically matures and is better able to p look at harder on pucks.
Imo Bedard wasn’t selected for Team Canada at the Four Nations, while another young player in Jarvis was, because of the players’ differences in defensive play. If Bedard had been playing wing, imo, he is on that team because his defensive liabilities wouldn’t be so apparent.
He’s a great young player and future star, but he’s not (imo) being put in the best situation for his growth as a winner.

Jarvis is over three years older. Turned 23 today. Right when many players are really hitting their stride.

 

[CallMeShaft]

There’s a reason why there’s an NHL leadership award with Messier’s name on it. He knows what it takes, and he called out the Hawks for allowing Bedard to play soft defensively and still giving him pp time and how that affects the room.
Playing Bedard on the wing would be better for the player at this point of his development. He would transition to centre over time, as he physically matures and is better able to p look at harder on pucks.
Imo Bedard wasn’t selected for Team Canada at the Four Nations, while another young player in Jarvis was, because of the players’ differences in defensive play. If Bedard had been playing wing, imo, he is on that team because his defensive liabilities wouldn’t be so apparent.
He’s a great young player and future star, but he’s not (imo) being put in the best situation for his growth as a winner.

Look, Messier is a legend. I'm not saying he's not. But I'm not the first person to disagree with the talking heads of an intermission broadcast. Can you honestly say that you've agreed with everything you've ever heard from these hockey analysts?

And I don't agree with you that he should start at wing and transition over time. I think you play him at the position he feels most comfortable at and the one you project him to be at long term.

Maybe you wouldn't notice the defensive lapses as often if he was at wing. But maybe he doesn't produce as many scoring chances there either. Last thing we'd need is to stymie his offense and playmaking ability.

Hockey Canada didn't need his offense. Jarvis is a stud defensively, specifically on the PK. I don't think these two were competing for the same spot on that roster and don't think Bedard would've won it over SJ even if Connor was playing wing all season.