Has Connor Bedard quietly became underrated ?

[authentic]

16pts (5g 11a) in 14GP since the coach that was actively holding him back, was fired.

We’ll see once the sample gets larger. I hope you’re correct.

 

[Machinehead]

Within 11 years, Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby, MacKinnon, and McDavid all came into the league as #1 picks, and Malkin being probably the best #2 ever.

That's an insane run of all-time talent coming from those draft positions in such an short period of time.

I think it's raised the bar of expectations on #1 picks above what's really realistic.

Bedard is still on track to have a Hall of Fame career if he progresses as he should.

 

[wetcoast]

I think there is something to be said for trajectory as well. Cooley has very clearly taken a big step in his sophomore season where Bedard has stagnated (and arguably regressed).

It's far from a given that Bedard becomes as good of an overall player next year as Cooley is this year.

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I feared some hockey card stats were coming so they have the same number of points but somehow Cooley is much better offensively too?

Lies, dam lies and statistics.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Within 11 years, Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby, MacKinnon, and McDavid all came into the league as #1 picks, and Malkin being probably the best #2 ever.

That's an insane run of all-time talent coming from those draft positions in such an short period of time.

I think it's raised the bar of expectations on #1 picks above what's really realistic.

I’ll keep harping on it as much as I need to as well. Nobody comes in and lights the nhl on fire as a teenager or a player coming straight out of junior right now. It was much much more common even outside from so called “generational talents” for players to hit the ground running not so long ago. Jeff Skinner finished 38th in points as an 18 year old rookie in 2010-11. Straight up nobody is doing that today. Look at the players drafted high near Bedard and compare it to all the high draft picks then. Jeff Skinnner isnt better than every player drafted in the last seven years. It was just a friendlier environment for young players to stand out early on. Different time periods in nhl history produce different outcomes. It’d be like looking at Denis Savard having seasons of 131, 121, 119 and 116 points and asking why it feels like nobody is as good as Savard now. It’s just a different era.

 

[VeteranPresence]

Bedard is still on track to have a Hall of Fame career if he progresses as he should.

...he what? Bedard hasn't shown anything to hint at this outside maybe the CHL Hall of Fame.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I feared some hockey card stats were coming so they have the same number of points but somehow Cooley is much better offensively too?

Lies, dam lies and statistics.

It's not totally unbelievable that Cooley has been at least as good offensively this year, considering their usage. Bedard has less help but he also gets 15% more ice time.

Bedard's underlying offensive numbers have not been very good at 5v5. He creates less high danger chances than pretty much every other Hawk.

 

[Machinehead]

...he what? Bedard hasn't shown anything to hint at this outside maybe the CHL Hall of Fame.

There have been 26 1OA picks this century and 7 of them are pretty comfortably going to end up in the Hall of Fame. Hughes is going to be 8 if he doesn't get hurt. 9 if you put in John Tavares and he probably has the numbers. That's more than a third of them.

Bedard was a particularly strong 1OA pick and he has pretty much met expectations so far. He's close to a PPG player as a teenager.

It would be very surprising for him to have less than a HOF career.

 

[WarriorofTime]

It's not totally unbelievable that Cooley has been at least as good offensively this year, considering their usage. Bedard has less help but he also gets 15% more ice time.

Bedard's underlying offensive numbers have not been very good at 5v5. He creates less high danger chances than pretty much every other Hawk.

I really think you underrate what Bedard has been doing as a powerplay player this year and it's implications for what it means regarding his worldclass skillset.

6th in powerplay points per 60 amongst the entire NHL for anyone with a minimum of 50 minutes played on the powerplay. That's out of 251 skaters total.

Tyler Bertuzzi, Teuvo Teravainen, Alex Vlasic, Seth Jones, Ryan Donato, Taylor Hall. These are the most frequently used players on the powerplay besides Bedard. He's already transforming a lineup with a group of players playing 1 - 1.5 lines too high into the 13th/32nd best powerplay in the League. It's by far the most promising trend of Bedard's impact right now.

If you look at a guy like Crosby, 48.6 % of his points came on the powerplay his first two seasons in the League. For Bedard, that's 39.6 % career to date, 5:11 PP ATOI for Crosby back then and 3:11 PP ATOI for Bedard now with the number of powerplays down league wide then to now.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I really think you underrate what Bedard has been doing as a powerplay player this year and it's implications for what it means regarding his worldclass skillset.

6th in powerplay points per 60 amongst the entire NHL for anyone with a minimum of 50 minutes played on the powerplay. That's out of 251 skaters total.

Tyler Bertuzzi, Teuvo Teravainen, Alex Vlasic, Seth Jones, Ryan Donato, Taylor Hall. These are the most frequently used players on the powerplay besides Bedard. He's already transforming a lineup with a group of players playing 1 - 1.5 lines too high into the 13th/32nd best powerplay in the League. It's by far the most promising trend of Bedard's impact right now.

If you look at a guy like Crosby, 48.6 % of his points came on the powerplay his first two seasons in the League. For Bedard, that's 39.6 % career to date, 5:11 PP ATOI for Crosby back then and 3:11 PP ATOI for Bedard now with the number of powerplays down league wide then to now.

Totally agree, Bedard is a world class PP weapon. I always thought he was grossly misused on the PP last year.

There have been 26 1OA picks this century and 7 of them are pretty comfortably going to end up in the Hall of Fame. Hughes is going to be 8 if he doesn't get hurt. 9 if you put in John Tavares and he probably has the numbers. That's more than a third of them.

Bedard was a particularly strong 1OA pick and he has pretty much met expectations so far. He's close to a PPG player as a teenager.

It would be very surprising for him to have less than a HOF career.

Agreed, everything we've seen from him thus far suggest he's on track to have a HOF level career.

 

[authentic]

I’ll keep harping on it as much as I need to as well. Nobody comes in and lights the nhl on fire as a teenager or a player coming straight out of junior right now. It was much much more common even outside from so called “generational talents” for players to hit the ground running not so long ago. Jeff Skinner finished 38th in points as an 18 year old rookie in 2010-11. Straight up nobody is doing that today. Look at the players drafted high near Bedard and compare it to all the high draft picks then. Jeff Skinnner isnt better than every player drafted in the last seven years. It was just a friendlier environment for young players to stand out early on. Different time periods in nhl history produce different outcomes. It’d be like looking at Denis Savard having seasons of 131, 121, 119 and 116 points and asking why it feels like nobody is as good as Savard now. It’s just a different era.

I wonder what exactly about the NHL now makes it harder for younger players to standout? Is it simply just a better, faster and more talented league?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I wonder what exactly about the NHL now makes it harder for younger players to standout? Is it simply just a better, faster and more talented league?

Speed of the league. Younger guys used to have that as an advantage vs a lot of the rest of the league. Not so much these days.

 

[hamzarocks]

Bedard is for sure a more dangerous offensive player than Cooley, but Cooley is a much more complete center at this stage. Yeah, he's a year ahead, but I doubt Bedard will ever be anywhere near as well rounded as Cooley. While Cooley will likely never approach Bedard's offensive totals, I think Cooley's upside scenario is a better overall player than Bedard's downside.

If bedard ends up a worse player than Logan Cooley hes a Daigle level disapointment.

it could happen as hes just not been an elite player at the NHL level through his first 100 odd games but pre-draft almost impossible to imagine such a scenerio.

Most of the 2023 draft class has failed so far with Carlsson and Fantilli also having underwhelming offensive production despite crazy hype and draft season play.

Doesnt look like 2023 will be a 2015 level draft class which is surprising as the top guys all have a lot of elite skills and standout talent but just arent producing as expected for some reason so far

 

[authentic]

Speed of the league. Younger guys used to have that as an advantage vs a lot of the rest of the league. Not so much these days.

Yeah you’re right about that one, none of these kids are skating like MacKinnon, Ovechkin, Crosby and McDavid and the league has only gotten a lot faster.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

If bedard ends up a worse player than Logan Cooley hes a Daigle level disapointment.

it could happen as hes just not been an elite player at the NHL level through his first 100 odd games but pre-draft almost impossible to imagine such a scenerio.

Most of the 2023 draft class has failed so far with Carlsson and Fantilli also having underwhelming offensive production despite crazy hype and draft season play.

Doesnt look like 2023 will be a 2015 level draft class which is surprising as the top guys all have a lot of elite skills and standout talent but just arent producing as expected for some reason so far

Cooley could be a 90+ point 2 way center. In the unlikely event Bedard doesn't surpass that, he's still going to be at worst an elite offensive player.

 

[hamzarocks]

Cooley could be a 90+ point 2 way center. In the unlikely event Bedard doesn't surpass that, he's still going to be at worst an elite offensive player.

90+ pt 2-way C is his max ceiling akin to Bedard eing a 60G and 130P Mcdavid level player.

I dont think Cooley will be a better Anze Kopitar/Barkov type player for his prime years.

75 pts and good 2-way c is most likely for his prime years being a selke candidate.

Bedard wasnt suppised to be compared to Cooley type players on draft day.

He was suppised to be a Mackinnon, Matthews, Draisaitl, Kucherov, Hughes level player in the case he didnt become a Mcdavid/Crosby level player.

The hawks are really going to be developing bad habits into his game and it will be harder for him to become a strong playoff performer in tight matchup series if the hawks dont fix things and have better defensive systems and personnel in place from next year.

Im hoping they look to make some major additions next summer and get a shut-down 2way C and 2 top 4D to help instill more defensive balance and support which Bedard can use to improve his 2-way game.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

90+ pt 2-way C is his max ceiling akin to Bedard eing a 60G and 130P Mcdavid level player.

I dont think Cooley will be a better Anze Kopitar/Barkov type player for his prime years.

75 pts and good 2-way c is most likely for his prime years being a selke candidate.

Bedard wasnt suppised to be compared to Cooley type players.

He was suppised to be a Mackinnon, Matthews, Draisaitl, Kucherov, Hughes level player in the case he didnt become a Mcdavid/Crosby level player.

The hawks are really going to be developing bad habits into his game and it will be harder for him to become a strong playoff performer in tight matchup series if the hawks dont fix things and have better defensive systems and personnel in place from next year.

Cooley's on pace for 72 points as a 21 year old center without primo ice time. He goes 1st in 2022 redraft pretty easily IMO. No shame in being compared to a player like that, even if he's not McDavid.

 

[Bombshell11]

Cooley's on pace for 72 points as a 21 year old center without primo ice time. He goes 1st in 2022 redraft pretty easily IMO. No shame in being compared to a player like that, even if he's not McDavid.

You wont pick Hutson before Cooley?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

You wont pick Hutson before Cooley?

Nope. Big fan of Lane though.

 

[danisonfire]

No. I still can't afford his rookie card.

 

[Bombshell11]

Nope. Big fan of Lane though.

I like Cooley but a 1st D who can dictate the pace of the game the way Hutson does is rare.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I like Cooley but a 1st D who can dictate the pace of the game the way Hutson does is rare.

He's not good enough defensively to be a 1D IMO. I'd prefer a ppg+ two way center, especially when things tighten up in the postseason.

 

[Boyon90]

Roennick was not impressed