Has Connor Bedard quietly became underrated ?

[PainForShane]

You're just salty because I said Bedard wasn't generational.

What on earth does that have to do with anything? There was a zero percent chance that Bedard wasn't going to be better in his first two seasons.

It's difficult if not impossible to be salty toward a person you don't respect.

To clarify, you said (and repeatedly defended) your claim that Bedard would never be generational because his ROY win wasn't dominant enough. Clearly it's too early to tell either way, the kid's entering his second year in the league.

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Either way, you're not fooling anyone in either direction -- either with your nonsense claim that it's impossible for Bedard to become generational bc according to you his Calder-winning season wasn't dominant enough (clearly Gordie Howe, Tom Brady, Novak Djokovic etc all exist and had worse professional starts), or this new equally nonsensical claim you're being objectively neutral toward the guy

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

It's difficult if not impossible to be salty toward a person you don't respect.

That's not a very nice thing to say. I still respect you and your opinions.

That said, you're clearly quite salty, considering that this is the 2nd time in the last 3 weeks you've tried to initiate a conversation with me about how my opinion of Bedard's potential is ridiculous. Last time you called me a clown, so I guess personal insults is just the way you cope with your anger?

To clarify, you said (and repeatedly defended) your claim that Bedard would never be generational because his ROY win wasn't dominant enough. Clearly it's too early to tell either way, the kid's entering his second year in the league.

Am I not allowed to have an absolute opinion on things these days without you personally attacking me? I do not believe he has generational potential, why does that anger you to the point where you feel name calling is necessary?

And clearly, Bedard's first 82 games have been nowhere near good enough to justify having the generational conversation. Nobody was making that claim about Patrick Kane in 2008, and for good reason.

In the modern NHL, the true generational talents have proven to be a top 5 player in the world before their 20th birthday.

Either way, you're not fooling anyone in either direction -- either with your nonsense claim that it's impossible for Bedard to become generational bc according to you his Calder-winning season wasn't dominant enough (clearly Gordie Howe, Tom Brady, Novak Djokovic etc all exist and had worse professional starts), or this new equally nonsensical claim you're being objectively neutral toward the guy

I don't believe athletes from 75 years ago, or from different sports, are at all relevant to how we project modern NHL players.

 

[WarriorofTime]

It's safe to say it's harder in the here and now NHL for a teenager to dominate. Jeff Skinner was 38th in Points as an 18 year old player that just got drafted. You aren't getting those results from anyone these days, Forwards really aren't breaking out until their D+4. At some point the pendulum will likely swing back the other way. Maybe Jeff Skinner was just a flat out better teenager than anyone from the last like 7 Drafts, but it's probably not the case since a lot of other young players (some huge names, some big names, some less big names) were also making quicker instant impacts while it's taken the Jack Hughes and Alexis Lafreniere types a bit to get going. Whiskey does seem a bit obsessed with Bedard even though he admitted he's likely the first, second or maybe third most promising player in terms of overall expected career value born between 1998-2006.

 

[Adrianopolous]

No one believes you. Especially because your own guy Jack Hughes heavily struggled early in his career and has improved tremendously since then

So if Bedard is a Jack Hughes type then I’ve been duped

 

[Crow]

That's not a very nice thing to say. I still respect you and your opinions.

That said, you're clearly quite salty, considering that this is the 2nd time in the last 3 weeks you've tried to initiate a conversation with me about how my opinion of Bedard's potential is ridiculous. Last time you called me a clown, so I guess personal insults is just the way you cope with your anger?

Am I not allowed to have an absolute opinion on things these days without you personally attacking me? I do not believe he has generational potential, why does that anger you to the point where you feel name calling is necessary?

And clearly, Bedard's first 82 games have been nowhere near good enough to justify having the generational conversation. Nobody was making that claim about Patrick Kane in 2008, and for good reason.

View attachment 927881

In the modern NHL, the true generational talents have proven to be a top 5 player in the world before their 20th birthday.


I don't believe athletes from 75 years ago, or from different sports, are at all relevant to how we project modern NHL players.

Patrick Kane came to a team with 7 or so other top line/top pairing players. It’s a terrible comparison. Bedard’s start has been much more impressive to me. In Patrick’s rookie year the hawks scored 239 goals. They scored 179 last year.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

It's safe to say it's harder in the here and now NHL for a teenager to dominate. Jeff Skinner was 38th in Points as an 18 year old player that just got drafted. You aren't getting those results from anyone these days, Forwards really aren't breaking out until their D+4. At some point the pendulum will likely swing back the other way. Maybe Jeff Skinner was just a flat out better teenager than anyone from the last like 7 Drafts, but it's probably not the case since a lot of other young players (some huge names, some big names, some less big names) were also making quicker instant impacts while it's taken the Jack Hughes and Alexis Lafreniere types a bit to get going.

This is an interesting point. I think for a number of reasons, we've seen the top young forwards struggle a bit more coming straight to the NHL. For one, I think COVID was a factor that probably affected everyone drafted 2020 and later.

- Hughes was pretty physically immature, and also had some of the worst puck luck I think I've ever seen (5% on ice sh%).
- Stutzle was similarly a late bloomer in terms of physical maturity, but he was still pretty decent.
- Lafreniere just wasn't as good as advertised, and simply was not ready for NHL pace.
- Slafkovsky and Byfield were both pretty well known to be very raw, most expected it would take them some time.
- Fantilli & Carlsson also had pretty decent D+1 years

I think guys like Skinner just had a very translatable skill set - guys that go to the net to score their goals in junior are much more projectable, and that's what Skinner did.

Whiskey does seem a bit obsessed with Bedard even though he admitted he's likely the first, second or maybe third most promising player in terms of overall expected career value born between 1998-2006.

To be fair, a large proportion of my posts in these Bedard threads are me defending myself from people coming after me for sharing an opinion that they don't agree with.

 

[PainForShane]

That's not a very nice thing to say. I still respect you and your opinions.

That said, you're clearly quite salty, considering that this is the 2nd time in the last 3 weeks you've tried to initiate a conversation with me about how my opinion of Bedard's potential is ridiculous. Last time you called me a clown, so I guess personal insults is just the way you cope with your anger?

Am I not allowed to have an absolute opinion on things these days without you personally attacking me? I do not believe he has generational potential, why does that anger you to the point where you feel name calling is necess

And clearly, Bedard's first 82 games have been nowhere near good enough to justify having the generational conversation. Nobody was making that claim about Patrick Kane in 2008, and for good reason.

View attachment 927881

In the modern NHL, the true generational talents have proven to be a top 5 player in the world before their 20th birthday.


I don't believe athletes from 75 years ago, or from different sports, are at all relevant to how we project modern NHL players.

You are so delusional. I responded to one of your more obvious denials literally saying, "no one believes you" then after you called me salty for no reason (yet again) I gave you two specific examples of your recent nonsense. In response you're like, "Oh you must have anger issues too" wtf are you even saying. I am neither salty nor angry, like others here I just think you are an incredibly dishonest and low value poster, and I am treating you accordingly.

Speaking of which, in the last few pages four different people (myself included) have come after you for completely unique and unrelated (yet justified) reasons. Are they all salty and / or angry as well, coming after you for different sides of your dishonest posts? Wtf accusations are you even making here.

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Re: dishonesty in this particular argument, your table is nonsense -- among other things you repeatedly bring up "modern NHL players" but Gretzky and Mario played before the modern era so by your own cherry picked criteria shouldn't be included. More importantly, the table is misleading and completely irrelevant to the topic of this thread -- ppl are evaluating Bedard's ceiling based on his insane junior dominance rather than his Calder win, we all know Bedard's rookie year wasn't as strong as Sid's, that fact proves nothing.

So yeah, I don't speak for others, but imo I personally don't feel our discussions have anything to do with a difference of opinion, from my end it's more of a reaction to what I perceive as a continuous and intentional lack of intellectual integrity. Differences of opinion are totally fine and obvi will occur on an internet msg board, that's not what most of my particular responses have been about