Prospect Info: Hartford Wolf Pack/Bloomington Bison Thread: Part XV

[eco's bones]

Its neal pionk who is the comparable with a little less physical play.

I don’t know if you’re saying DeAngelo is a physical player because he’s not and never has been. What Tony knows how to do is fight—keeping in mind his size and keeping in mind 2/3 fights a season and that said Tony rarely throws hits and is very often outmuscled along the boards and in front of the net. Pionk is often outmuscled too but he throws lots of hits. Pionk is easily the more physical player and Tony easily the better scrapper.

 

[gravey9]

Saw 2nd and 3rd periods tonight. Didn't love the way they played. I may just be in a mood. But it was a bit frustrating to watch them tonight.

That said, the biggest positive was Huska - by far. He stood on his head. Really kept them in it. They were lucky to get a point and it was all due to him. He was really strong.

It was one of the games where HFD looked exactly like the Rangers do when they're playing poorly. Giving up way too many chances, too much ice. And the forwards were terrible with puck support. Just disjointed and unable to sustain an attack and often giving up possession too easily.

Without assigning blame to any particular player, I will just say that the lineup looked a little different than it has in recent games.

Out: Gettinger, DeGacinto, Guitari.
In: Skinner, Khodorenko, Reuschoff & of course, Hajek on his conditioning stint is paired with Jones.

In a nutshell, with Gettinger and DeGacinto out -- two of the more effective forwards -- the lines were somewhat shuffled. And there was, at the very least some serious rust from Skinner, Reuschoff and Khodorenko.

The one thing I will say with certainty with this being Hajek's 3rd or 4th game... he's really looking the same as he does in the NHL. You'd expect him to dominate and look really strong down here considering how many NHL games he's had. I think he's just a kid who really struggles with his confidence and when he's not brimming with it, which is often, his game has too much panic in it. It's a shame because he's a decent skater, he's not a terrible stick handler, he has the speed and size to defend, but what he struggles with seems to be confidence. The issue impacts the speed, intelligence and decisiveness of his game. As much as I understand pairing him with Jones as the #1 pair, it's making the top pair in HFD less effective right now. Robertson and Schneider didn't seem too bad tonight. In fact, there were a few moments where I thought both players showed some decent poise breaking the puck out of the zone. Especially when you consider that the forwards were rarely providing any 5ft passing options. In general, I thought the goaltending and D were a little too exposed. The forwards should ultimately shoulder the majority of the blame for the somewhat surprising mediocre performance.

As for guys like Barron and Paju. I mean, they had some chances. They looked ok. I really want Barron to start taking over games like Chytil did at this level. I really think he needs to show he can do that. He does a lot of good things. But I want to see that next gear that makes a successful NHL career seem inevitable. Right now, he's merely showing there will likely be some sort of NHL career. But nothing that's convincing me he'll be immediately effective at the NHL.

 

[egelband]

re-stating what we all know is true, but just so damn true
Howden might be useful to coach GG in the McKegg role (at worst) if Quinn hadn't been stubborn

this is also how how they shoulda been able to make it work w Lias and Krav,

and maybe its beginning to be time to wonder if ~6 weeks w Pack could help Nils
(he hasn't been bad, but big minutes against men on NHL size rinks
and maybe he comes back more assertive and effective...

For whatever reason they seem to have decided to develop Miller and Nils in the NHL but I agree, I’m general, it’s best to just let these guys develop in the AHL or leave them in their home country till they’re banging on the door.

 

[nyr2k2]

Huska could be a revelation. I think most of us had recognized the raw talent dating back to college, but this is the first time in years he's consistently putting it together (small sample I know).

Several of us cautioned regarding Barron last year that while his development was excellent, the numbers were a bit misleading in that they weren't really indicative of a guy who was dominating on a shift-by-shift basis. He's still very good, but as @gravey9 said, it's not really something that gives you confidence he's ready to make a significant impact in the NHL at the moment. I think he can definitely play there, and maybe he needs to in order to take the next step, but otherwise he looks more like a fringe guy than someone who you can just plug in and have go to work right away.

 

[egelband]

i think that @Gordon Bombay's first part, about appearances/justification, is just fan-think, that real NHL FO's don't think that way.
Especially regarding this team, where the loyal base stays loyal

I think Howden counter-productive handling was due to Quinn's stubbornness, and maybe pro inexperience

I blame Quinn a bit re Lias too,
if he gave Lias 1/2 the leeway and 2nd chances given Howden,
that may not have fallen apart. But Cuylle is a very happy ending

also if the story is true, of Bobrov overselling clear path to ice-time at NHL level, to Krav and Lias, then he deserved losing his job

but also both Lias and Krav stepped on their own (unmentionable)s
Plenty of successful, highly-regarded Russians and Swedes spent some time in AHL, earned their NHL opportunity on the ice, earned staying, and didn't look back.

But yes @JohnC the NYR player development guys, and NHL vets with undefinedNYR FO roles like Richards and Graves, and I even believe the guys in the room, contributed, if some only by not engaging, to the Lias and Krav melodramas.

But it is still very early career for Krav, for Laf and Kakk, for Barron and Paju,
for Berard and Cuylle, for Othmann and Henriksson,
and whoever emerges from the remaining dozen drafted but unsigned F's
(yeah i know, Rempe signed ...)

With Lias and Kravtsov it’s also possible the coaches were responding to their immaturity. We often blame the behavior on the treatment. ‘No wonder Kravtsov was upset. They kept Hajek over him and Hajek blows!’
But maybe Kravtsov was treated that way because of his attitude.
It’s an archaic way to deal with an immature player- granted- but I can see how it may have developed.

 

[egelband]

Huska could be a revelation. I think most of us had recognized the raw talent dating back to college, but this is the first time in years he's consistently putting it together (small sample I know).

Several of us cautioned regarding Barron last year that while his development was excellent, the numbers were a bit misleading in that they weren't really indicative of a guy who was dominating on a shift-by-shift basis. He's still very good, but as @gravey9 said, it's not really something that gives you confidence he's ready to make a significant impact in the NHL at the moment. I think he can definitely play there, and maybe he needs to in order to take the next step, but otherwise he looks more like a fringe guy than someone who you can just plug in and have go to work right away.

Has Huska gotten a lot of work in over the past few seasons? I feel that’s the issue with Georgiev. We brought him up too early and he has basically been sitting for the past three years, not getting enough action to really develop and take that next step.

 

[nyr2k2]

Has Huska gotten a lot of work in over the past few seasons? I feel that’s the issue with Georgiev. We brought him up too early and he has basically been sitting for the past three years, not getting enough action to really develop and take that next step.

He saw a good number of starts after Shesterkin was recalled a couple years ago. Last season he played about half the games but of course that was in a silly, short season. He definitely does need more work and I wish they'd split him and Kinkaid 50/50.

 

[duhmetreE]

Saw 2nd and 3rd periods tonight. Didn't love the way they played. I may just be in a mood. But it was a bit frustrating to watch them tonight.

That said, the biggest positive was Huska - by far. He stood on his head. Really kept them in it. They were lucky to get a point and it was all due to him. He was really strong.

It was one of the games where HFD looked exactly like the Rangers do when they're playing poorly. Giving up way too many chances, too much ice. And the forwards were terrible with puck support. Just disjointed and unable to sustain an attack and often giving up possession too easily.

Without assigning blame to any particular player, I will just say that the lineup looked a little different than it has in recent games.

Out: Gettinger, DeGacinto, Guitari.
In: Skinner, Khodorenko, Reuschoff & of course, Hajek on his conditioning stint is paired with Jones.

In a nutshell, with Gettinger and DeGacinto out -- two of the more effective forwards -- the lines were somewhat shuffled. And there was, at the very least some serious rust from Skinner, Reuschoff and Khodorenko.

The one thing I will say with certainty with this being Hajek's 3rd or 4th game... he's really looking the same as he does in the NHL. You'd expect him to dominate and look really strong down here considering how many NHL games he's had. I think he's just a kid who really struggles with his confidence and when he's not brimming with it, which is often, his game has too much panic in it. It's a shame because he's a decent skater, he's not a terrible stick handler, he has the speed and size to defend, but what he struggles with seems to be confidence. The issue impacts the speed, intelligence and decisiveness of his game. As much as I understand pairing him with Jones as the #1 pair, it's making the top pair in HFD less effective right now. Robertson and Schneider didn't seem too bad tonight. In fact, there were a few moments where I thought both players showed some decent poise breaking the puck out of the zone. Especially when you consider that the forwards were rarely providing any 5ft passing options. In general, I thought the goaltending and D were a little too exposed. The forwards should ultimately shoulder the majority of the blame for the somewhat surprising mediocre performance.

As for guys like Barron and Paju. I mean, they had some chances. They looked ok. I really want Barron to start taking over games like Chytil did at this level. I really think he needs to show he can do that. He does a lot of good things. But I want to see that next gear that makes a successful NHL career seem inevitable. Right now, he's merely showing there will likely be some sort of NHL career. But nothing that's convincing me he'll be immediately effective at the NHL.

Is Barron that type of player though? I see him playing up, or down to his line mates in a way. He won’t drive play but will compliment the lines style

 

[egelband]

He saw a good number of starts after Shesterkin was recalled a couple years ago. Last season he played about half the games but of course that was in a silly, short season. He definitely does need more work and I wish they'd split him and Kinkaid 50/50.

Yep. All these guys need reps. And reps where they’re able to work on things and feel good and most importantly they can’t be struggling to keep up. And unless your name is Adam Fox, it takes time. And even Fox didn’t come up till he was 21. I’m not saying it’s impossible to develop player in the NHL. But I don’t think it’s common, and definitely the default should be to take it slow and get the kids lots of reps.

 

[jay from jersey]

Huska could be a revelation. I think most of us had recognized the raw talent dating back to college, but this is the first time in years he's consistently putting it together (small sample I know).

Several of us cautioned regarding Barron last year that while his development was excellent, the numbers were a bit misleading in that they weren't really indicative of a guy who was dominating on a shift-by-shift basis. He's still very good, but as @gravey9 said, it's not really something that gives you confidence he's ready to make a significant impact in the NHL at the moment. I think he can definitely play there, and maybe he needs to in order to take the next step, but otherwise he looks more like a fringe guy than someone who you can just plug in and have go to work right away.

ive been part of the contingent that thinks Huska has what it takes to be a top notch NHL back up for a while now. He’s a big guy like vally or bishop so sometimes then take a little more work, but I know Allaire loves his tool set.
He had a solid game against the Flyers in the preseason a few years ago where he was very sharp and showed good lateral movement.
Sounds like Hartford largely had an off night. I guess they just want to keep getting Barron Reps at center refining his game.
I don’t know if Barron is ever going to take over games or dominate like chytil. Chytil has high end skills, but showing them consistently is his main issue.
Barron has a ceiling of a maybe 20/20 guy that will give you a solid effort wherever they plug him in the middle or bottom 6

 

[Levitate]

i think that
I think Howden counter-productive handling was due to Quinn's stubbornness, and maybe pro inexperience

I blame Quinn a bit re Lias too,
if he gave Lias 1/2 the leeway and 2nd chances given Howden,
that may not have fallen apart. But Cuylle is a very happy ending

Agree here. yeah Andersson struggled to "play with pace" at the NHL level but it's obvious that Quinn was infatuated with Howden "doing the right things" in practice and "hustling around the ice" during games even though the results were mostly awful. Chance after chance for a guy who was doing nothing because Quinn liked how he worked.
Andersson deserves plenty of blame but it probably wasn't also great for him to try to bust his ass and do things they wanted and then get a handful of 4th line minutes and then demoted while Howden was considered a regular with a secure job.

On the other hand I do think they're doing OK with Miller, he can play at the NHL level, he's improving. Maybe he could have used some AHL time last season but he seems to have handled the transition well enough

 

[gravey9]

ive been part of the contingent that thinks Huska has what it takes to be a top notch NHL back up for a while now. He’s a big guy like vally or bishop so sometimes then take a little more work, but I know Allaire loves his tool set.
He had a solid game against the Flyers in the preseason a few years ago where he was very sharp and showed good lateral movement.
Sounds like Hartford largely had an off night. I guess they just want to keep getting Barron Reps at center refining his game.
I don’t know if Barron is ever going to take over games or dominate like chytil. Chytil has high end skills, but showing them consistently is his main issue.
Barron has a ceiling of a maybe 20/20 guy that will give you a solid effort wherever they plug him in the middle or bottom 6

This is correct. The big difference between Chytil and Barron, and for that matter, Lias and Howden, is skating. Because Chytil and Howden can skate well enough to keep up with the NHL pace, they have mostly been developed in the NHL. Likely at their detriment.

Whereas guys like Lias and Barron are being developed in the A because their footspeed and first step is far more average. Which means, they have to rely moreso on their processing ability.

Barron's overall game is quite well rounded. He's positionally sound. He should one day make it. But he's not quite thinking the game at the pace where I'm convinced he'll be able to use his mind to make up for his footspeed at the next level. While he will never be Chytil using his speed to dominate, Barron needs to show his processing can help him dominate at the A. Whenever he plays with the NHL squad, his current processing speed becomes more apparent. He's less effective because his brain isn't yet making up for his feet. (Again, he's not slow, but he's just slow enough where he really needs recognize situations quicker to make up for the first step). The hope is, as he plays more, his recognition speed improves and his positioning becomes a bit more automatic. The promising thing is that in the A, he's able to flash real offensive flare at that pace whereas guys like Gettinger are forced to be more meat and potatoes.

So, that's why, IMO, Barron still does need to find ways to dominate shifts in the A. But he's going to have to do it with experience and his brain.

I know, I'm only focusing on Barron here but obviously processing the speed of the game is the absolute core issue for all of young players whether they are in the A or the NHL.

 

[cwede]

Wall w 4-3 OT win Friday
Jax was down 3-1 early 2nd,
Taylor 1-2-3, Sanchez 1-1-2 contributed to force OT.
Elmer, Berzolla both -1,
2 of 3 Jax regulation Gs on PP

 

[Ranger Ric]

I saw the first period so together we have the game covered!

Glad to hear that Huska had a strong game. The first goal he gave up in the first period was just awful. Someone took a weak shot from the wing and Huska kicked it out to the middle of the ice where the Providence player slammed it home. Considering how well he played in the rest of the game I'll give him a pass for one brain fart.

I did see the OT goal against and just terrible defensive coverage by Brodzinski and Greco.

Gettinger was out with an injury designated as day to day.

In the games I've seen I agree on Hajek. It's not that he's that bad but he should be dominating at this level and he is not.

I know many are high on Barron. I am a big Barron fan seeing many of his games at Cornell on ESPN+ and all his games at Hartford last year. I thought he was ready to come out of Cornell after his junior year.

And while I still think he is a good prospect I can't agree more with gravey9 about wanting to see more out of Barron. He just doesn't dominate the way I think he could, particularly on 5X5 play.

Many people look at his point total as a reason to be encouraged. I think this is somewhat misleading. This year he has 6 goals and 9 points in 12 games. But three of those goals were on the power play and a fourth was a shorthanded goal. One of his 3 assists was on 3x3 OT. So he only has 4 5X5 points in 12 games. I think he projects as a third line center. If he reaches that level he is not going to get much if any PP time and little to no 3X3 time. I really want to see him scoring more at 5X5 play.

And as gravey9 points out, the skating is OK at best. He's just not that quick on his skates.

I went back to Corey Pronman's article from September on the Rangers prospects. Pronman rated Barron as the 10th best Rangers prospect and I think really nailed the analysis: Below Average skating and puck skills, Average hockey sense, and Above Average compete level and shot. Pronman's average is the average NHL player. So being below average doesn't mean you can't play in the NHL but it does indicate an area of weakness relative to other NHL players in the same way that above average indicate an area of strength compared to other NHL players. He concluded by saying this about Barron: "he’s a center who can kill penalties, play around the net, finish and make plays. That to me is someone who can be a full-time, bottom-six forward."

I agree with the projection and so rather look at this total points I want to see him be more effective on 5X5 where he is likely to spend all of his time in the NHL.

Saw 2nd and 3rd periods tonight. Didn't love the way they played. I may just be in a mood. But it was a bit frustrating to watch them tonight.

That said, the biggest positive was Huska - by far. He stood on his head. Really kept them in it. They were lucky to get a point and it was all due to him. He was really strong.

It was one of the games where HFD looked exactly like the Rangers do when they're playing poorly. Giving up way too many chances, too much ice. And the forwards were terrible with puck support. Just disjointed and unable to sustain an attack and often giving up possession too easily.

Without assigning blame to any particular player, I will just say that the lineup looked a little different than it has in recent games.

Out: Gettinger, DeGacinto, Guitari.
In: Skinner, Khodorenko, Reuschoff & of course, Hajek on his conditioning stint is paired with Jones.

In a nutshell, with Gettinger and DeGacinto out -- two of the more effective forwards -- the lines were somewhat shuffled. And there was, at the very least some serious rust from Skinner, Reuschoff and Khodorenko.

The one thing I will say with certainty with this being Hajek's 3rd or 4th game... he's really looking the same as he does in the NHL. You'd expect him to dominate and look really strong down here considering how many NHL games he's had. I think he's just a kid who really struggles with his confidence and when he's not brimming with it, which is often, his game has too much panic in it. It's a shame because he's a decent skater, he's not a terrible stick handler, he has the speed and size to defend, but what he struggles with seems to be confidence. The issue impacts the speed, intelligence and decisiveness of his game. As much as I understand pairing him with Jones as the #1 pair, it's making the top pair in HFD less effective right now. Robertson and Schneider didn't seem too bad tonight. In fact, there were a few moments where I thought both players showed some decent poise breaking the puck out of the zone. Especially when you consider that the forwards were rarely providing any 5ft passing options. In general, I thought the goaltending and D were a little too exposed. The forwards should ultimately shoulder the majority of the blame for the somewhat surprising mediocre performance.

As for guys like Barron and Paju. I mean, they had some chances. They looked ok. I really want Barron to start taking over games like Chytil did at this level. I really think he needs to show he can do that. He does a lot of good things. But I want to see that next gear that makes a successful NHL career seem inevitable. Right now, he's merely showing there will likely be some sort of NHL career. But nothing that's convincing me he'll be immediately effective at the NHL.

 

[gravey9]

Using 5v5 stats as a way to understand where Barron's development is at is really smart. Thanks for that breakdown, RR.

I saw the first period so together we have the game covered!

Glad to hear that Huska had a strong game. The first goal he gave up in the first period was just awful. Someone took a weak shot from the wing and Huska kicked it out to the middle of the ice where the Providence player slammed it home. Considering how well he played in the rest of the game I'll give him a pass for one brain fart.

I did see the OT goal against and just terrible defensive coverage by Brodzinski and Greco.

Gettinger was out with an injury designated as day to day.

In the games I've seen I agree on Hajek. It's not that he's that bad but he should be dominating at this level and he is not.

I know many are high on Barron. I am a big Barron fan seeing many of his games at Cornell on ESPN+ and all his games at Hartford last year. I thought he was ready to come out of Cornell after his junior year.

And while I still think he is a good prospect I can't agree more with gravey9 about wanting to see more out of Barron. He just doesn't dominate the way I think he could, particularly on 5X5 play.

Many people look at his point total as a reason to be encouraged. I think this is somewhat misleading. This year he has 6 goals and 9 points in 12 games. But three of those goals were on the power play and a fourth was a shorthanded goal. One of his 3 assists was on 3x3 OT. So he only has 4 5X5 points in 12 games. I think he projects as a third line center. If he reaches that level he is not going to get much if any PP time and little to no 3X3 time. I really want to see him scoring more at 5X5 play.

And as gravey9 points out, the skating is OK at best. He's just not that quick on his skates.

I went back to Corey Pronman's article from September on the Rangers prospects. Pronman rated Barron as the 10th best Rangers prospect and I think really nailed the analysis: Below Average skating and puck skills, Average hockey sense, and Above Average compete level and shot. Pronman's average is the average NHL player. So being below average doesn't mean you can't play in the NHL but it does indicate an area of weakness relative to other NHL players in the same way that above average indicate an area of strength compared to other NHL players. He concluded by saying this about Barron: "he’s a center who can kill penalties, play around the net, finish and make plays. That to me is someone who can be a full-time, bottom-six forward."

I agree with the projection and so rather look at this total points I want to see him be more effective on 5X5 where he is likely to spend all of his time in the NHL.

 

[Kovalev27]

Pajuniemi continues to score

 

[RGY]

How many does Paju have? 2? Kid flat out knows how to score. We could use that.

 

[Fitzy]

How many does Paju have? 2? Kid flat out knows how to score. We could use that.

It's exciting but with his size I'd like to let him ride this hot streak a little and continue to develop rather than immediately bringing him up and throwing a whole new level of opponent at him just as he is finding his game.

Pack are having a barn burner tonight.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

How many does Paju have? 2? Kid flat out knows how to score. We could use that.

If Goat wasn't playing as good as he has I wouldn't mind giving Paju a chance

 

[cwede]

10 goals scored
All at one end of rink
(2-0 after 1st, 2-3 , 7-3)

 

[Fitzy]

10 goals scored
All at one end of rink
(2-0 after 1st, 2-3 , 7-3)

Someone fire the Zamboni driver

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Looks like Schneider and Robertson had strong games.

 

[bmoak]

Johnny Brodz is 5th in the AHL in scoring..
The line of Fritz, Paju, Ronning had a good game.
3 point night for Labrie of all people.

 

[Ranger Ric]

The Hartford announcer mentioned that there were Finish Pajuniemi jerseys in the crowd and that Pajuniemi saluted someone in the crowd with that jersey. Perhaps that was Statboy Steven who was at the game.

 

[gravey9]

Looks like Schneider and Robertson had strong games.

They did. After the 2nd, Robertson took Hajek's spot on the top pair. Robertson was really good tonight. Skating and outlet passes were really solid. Schneider had two fantastic plays that became primary assists. He made a pass on a first period goal that was one of the best passes of the season for the entire team.