Hart Trophy Tournament (1969-00) Round 3: 1986 Gretzky vs 1987 Gretzky

[blundluntman]

MATCHUP #3 (Round 3): Wayne Gretzky (1986) vs Wayne Gretzky (1987)

Wayne Gretzky (1985-86):
80 Games Played 52 Goals 163 Assists 215 Points | 1st in Points, 6th in Goals, 1st in Assists, 1st AST, Pearson/Lindsay, Art Ross

Wayne Gretzky (1986-87):
79 Games Played 62 Goals 121 Assists 183 Points | 1st in Points, 1st in Goals, 1st in Assists, 1st AST, Pearson/Lindsay, Art Ross

Round 3 Matchups
71 Orr vs 76 Clarke Thread
84 Gretzky vs 98 Hasek Thread
86 Gretzky vs 87 Gretzky
93 Lemieux vs 96 Lemieux

Round 2 Results

Click to read more...

 

[Toby91ca]

You can look at these in a few different angles I think. I hate to compare seasons and discount 1 vs. the other simply because there was another player that also had a really good season that year, but it works opposite here anyway. Gretzky led the scoring race in 1986 by 74pts. While he led the race in 1987 by 75pts, it's just less impressive to me because 1) the obvious, 215pts vs. 183pts and 2) Lemieux missed a bunch of games, so still wouldn't have come close, but the dominance wouldn't have been as much.....this is where I'd tend to discount this though.....just because another guy has a great season, doesn't make your season any less great.....but still 1986 for me.

 

[jigglysquishy]

These are close. You could argue any of Gretzky 82, 84, 86, or 87 as his tops.

I lean 1987 over 1986 because of the extra goals and the general lower scoring environment.

 

[TheGuiminator]

163 assists is just absurd

 

[Toby91ca]

163 assists is just absurd

Agreed....it's a pretty crazy stat really.

 

[Toby91ca]

These are close. You could argue any of Gretzky 82, 84, 86, or 87 as his tops.

I lean 1987 over 1986 because of the extra goals and the general lower scoring environment.

General lower scoring environment is only a good argument if you kept the same scoring level though. GPG in 1987 were down 7.6% compared to 1986, but Gretzky's point totals were down 14.9%. That said, the top 10 scorers ignoring Gretzky also saw a 15% decline in 1987 vs. 1986 (if Lemieux was heathier that stat may have been better though). Either way, I don't see lower scoring environment as a good argument.

Goals is an argument for 1987, but he still scored 52 goals in 1986. The crazy stat being that if you removed all 52 goals, he still wins the scoring title by 22pts. 1987 was a great year for him, but not as good as 1986 in my opinion.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Goals is an argument for 1987, but he still scored 52 goals in 1986. The crazy stat being that if you removed all 52 goals, he still wins the scoring title by 22pts. 1987 was a great year for him, but not as good as 1986 in my opinion.

He does this in 1987 too, but then also leads the league in goals.

 

[Albatros]

I'll take 1987 in the context of the Hart Trophy, Gretzky's contribution was simply a bit bigger.

 

[Toby91ca]

He does this in 1987 too, but then also leads the league in goals.

Still leads the league in scoring, but not by 22pts. Anyway, Gretzky has many incredible seasons and 1987 is one of them. I think 1986 and 1987 are close, just think 1986 is a bit better. I think a lot of things tend to even them out a bit, so the 2 tiebreakers for me are 1) 215pts (all time record) vs. 183pts....I get that scoring is down in 1987 and the point total of 183 should still be as impressive, I'm just using this as potential tiebreaker and 2) 163 assists....that's just one of the most insane stats out there.

 

[Toby91ca]

I'll take 1987 in the context of the Hart Trophy, Gretzky's contribution was simply a bit bigger.

In what sense though? In 1986 he was in on 50.5% of the Oiler's goals (3.2% of all league goals). In 1987 he was in on 49.2% of Oiler goals (3.0% of total league goals).

 

[Albatros]

But his goals went up from 12.2 % to 16.7 %. He did record fewer assists, but the drop was mostly in secondary.

 

[bobholly39]

These are close. You could argue any of Gretzky 82, 84, 86, or 87 as his tops.

I lean 1987 over 1986 because of the extra goals and the general lower scoring environment.

Why was scoring lower? Did top scorers simply score less, and so it seems it was harder to score? Or is there a reason to explain why scoring is harder in 1987 then surrounding years?

Because unless there's a logical reason that shows that scoring is harder in 1987 - and enough to offset the 30+ points difference - to me Gretzky in 1986 is definitely better. 10 extra goals is not better than 32 extra points.

 

[JackSlater]

1986 pretty comfortably. That was the last time Gretzky was really going all out in the regular season, even if it was going after the gimmicky two assists per game to keep him motivated. Not quite the same after Edmonton lost in the 1986 playoffs. In addition to the clearly superior scoring in 1986, Gretzky had probably his best set of linemates ever in 1987 as Tikkanen joined his line and stayed for the year.