blundluntman
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Hart Trophy Tournament (1969-00) Round 3: 1984 Wayne Gretzky vs 1998 Dominik Hasek
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DitchMarner
TheGlitchintheSwitch
Not voting yet. Have to think about it.
If this season from Hasek doesn't beat one of Gretzky's best seasons, I don't know if any goalie season ever can.
If this season from Hasek doesn't beat one of Gretzky's best seasons, I don't know if any goalie season ever can.
blundluntman
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I voted Gretzky pretty easily, but you make an interesting point regarding what it would take for a goalie season to rival one of Gretzky's peak years. Maybe 60+ wins and a .950+ sv%? It sounds insane/impossible but so does 200 tbf
What Hasek did behind that team is absolutely otherworldly.
But…man it’s really hard to see any goalie topping this kind of season. My brains just not wired for it.
But…man it’s really hard to see any goalie topping this kind of season. My brains just not wired for it.
Voight
#winning
Any plans to continue this with the other. major awards @blundluntman ?
blundluntman
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Yeah the plan is to do a Richard Trophy tournament next. Maybe a Vezina/Norris one afterwards
I don’t think there’s any argument for Hasek here. One of the best seasons by a goalie ever? Definitely, but I don’t think it stands out ahead of other goalie peaks like Parent or Sawchuk. Hasek had just as good (if not better) season the very next year and lost the Hart to Jagr. Nobody is going to try and argue that Jagr beats out peak Gretzky.
Hašek. Parent, Sawchuk, or any other goalie never came anywhere close to his peak level. What Gretzky achieved as a forward is obviously also an all-time great performance, but the Oilers were a good and offensively talented team without it as well.
Voight
#winning
My opinion is that Gretzky's 1984 season is the best season in hockey history so......
Perhaps, but we need to pump the breaks on considering Gretzky's stats as benefiting too much from having played with the Oilers as his impact was pretty clear....I had a quick look at goals they scored leading up to when he went off to LA.
82 - 417 goals (385 and 360 were 2nd and 3rd in league)
83 - 424 goals (359 and 343 were 2nd and 3rd)
84 - 446 goals (360 and 357 were 2nd and 3rd)
85 - 401 goals (363 and 358 were 2nd and 3rd)
86 - 426 goals (354 and 351 were 2nd and 3rd)
87 - 372 goals (318 and 318 were 2nd and 3rd)
88 - 363 goals (397 and 322 were 1st and 3rd - Oilers were 2nd this year, not by fluke...this is the year Gretzky missed 16 games)
89 - 325 goals (376 and 354 were 1st and 2nd) - Oilers now 4th in scoring, LA was 1st now that Gretzky moved to LA
90 - 315 goals (348 and 338 were 1st and 2nd) - Oilers now 5th in scoring, LA was 2nd here with 338, but also, Gretzky missed 7 games)
Meh, Coffey getting traded was what mostly limited their offense. From that on their best offensive defensemen were Charlie Huddy and Steve Smith.
JackSlater
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Probably a big part of the best goaltender peak ever, but it doesn't match Gretzky around his peak level. Tough break for Hasek.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
This is Gretzky in a landslide.
The comments in this thread are surprising to me. It's not a disrespect to Hasek's peak (which I agree is out of this world good) to correctly state that Gretzky simply peaked higher, because he did.
Gretzky/Lemieux/Orr are unmatched for peak performance - and it's not close.
Maybe if this was 87 Gretzky or 96 Lemieux - still great, but not their absolute best seasons - vs Hasek, there'd be more of a debate. As it is, there isn't one.
The comments in this thread are surprising to me. It's not a disrespect to Hasek's peak (which I agree is out of this world good) to correctly state that Gretzky simply peaked higher, because he did.
Gretzky/Lemieux/Orr are unmatched for peak performance - and it's not close.
Maybe if this was 87 Gretzky or 96 Lemieux - still great, but not their absolute best seasons - vs Hasek, there'd be more of a debate. As it is, there isn't one.
Personally, it's not hard for me to decide at all. Hasek did have an unreal season and carried his team, but I think the support was fairly average. Let's not forget, 1997/98 was one of the lowest scoring seasons in history. I think in the bottom 3-4 over the last 65-70 years. Only 6 teams scored more than 230 goals, highest scoring team scored 256. Range was 166-256, but most were in the 200-220 range and Buffalo scored 211.
Not taking away from Hasek, he deserved the accolades that year, but there is no question this goes to Gretzky.....
Scoring five goals below league average is not dramatic one way or another, but what is remarkable is that the Sabres were by a wide margin dead last in shots against, yet third best in goals against. That was the Hašek factor. If they had someone else in goal they couldn't have taken as many offensive chances either.
I don't disagree, it was his work rate (high volume of shots + sv %) that he dominated. He was only 4th or 5th in GAA but unfair to compare that stat to other guys who played for different teams. He dominated with .932 sv% compared to 2, 3 and 4 at .922, .922 and .920. However, you just can't compare that to a guy that missed games and still lead in scoring by 79pts.
