Hart Trophy Tournament (1969-00) Round 2: 1996 Mario Lemieux vs 1999 Jaromir Jagr

[blundluntman]

MATCHUP #8 (Round 2): Mario Lemieux (1996) vs Jaromir Jagr (1999)

Mario Lemieux (1995-96):
70 Games Played 69 Goals 91 Assists 160 Points | 1st in Points, 1st in Assists, 1st in Goals, Art Ross, Pearson/Lindsay, 1st AST

Jaromir Jagr (1998-99):
81 Games Played 44 Goals 73 Assists 127 Points | 1st in Points, 1st in Assists, T-2nd in Goals, Art Ross, Pearson/Lindsay, 1st AST

Round 2 Matchups
70 Orr vs 71 Orr (Still Active) Thread
76 Clarke vs 94 Fedorov (Still Active) Thread
77 Lafleur vs 86 Gretzky Thread
82 Gretzky vs 84 Gretzky (Still Active) Thread
87 Gretzky vs 88 Lemieux (Still Active) Thread
91 Hull vs 93 Lemieux Thread
95 Lindros vs 98 Hasek Thread
96 Lemieux vs 99 Jagr

Round 1 Results

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[JackSlater]

I'd take Jagr pretty comfortably. Obviously Lemieux outscored Jagr, but scoring in the NHL changed a lot over the course of three seasons. For example Lemieux outscored the tenth leading scorer in 1996 by 50%, but Jagr outscored the tenth leading scorer in 1999 by 43%. It's pretty close, and Jagr didn't play with players as good as Francis and... Jagr.... on the power play like Lemieux did in 1996. Lemieux also missed 12 games in 1996 and Jagr only missed one in 1999, which is a solid advantage for Jagr. Finally, Lemieux was pretty immobile by 1996 and mainly just traded chances, knowing that more often than not, but not always, he would win out because he was Lemieux and more talented than anyone else. Jagr was an elite possession player in 1999, which was an asset for a pretty shallow Pittsburgh team that couldn't afford to trade chances as much as 1996 Pittsburgh could.

Basically I think slight offensive edge to Lemieux, but Jagr brought more outside of pure offence than Lemieux did and Jagr didn't miss 12 games.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Lemieux ainec

 

[Bouboumaster]

Lemieux ainec

 

[Felidae]

I'd take Jagr pretty comfortably. Obviously Lemieux outscored Jagr, but scoring in the NHL changed a lot over the course of three seasons. For example Lemieux outscored the tenth leading scorer in 1996 by 50%, but Jagr outscored the tenth leading scorer in 1999 by 43%. It's pretty close, and Jagr didn't play with players as good as Francis and... Jagr.... on the power play like Lemieux did in 1996. Lemieux also missed 12 games in 1996 and Jagr only missed one in 1999, which is a solid advantage for Jagr. Finally, Lemieux was pretty immobile by 1996 and mainly just traded chances, knowing that more often than not, but not always, he would win out because he was Lemieux and more talented than anyone else. Jagr was an elite possession player in 1999, which was an asset for a pretty shallow Pittsburgh team that couldn't afford to trade chances as much as 1996 Pittsburgh could.

Basically I think slight offensive edge to Lemieux, but Jagr brought more outside of pure offence than Lemieux did and Jagr didn't miss 12 games.

One more thing to consider though is that Lemieux won the goalscoring race by a clear margin in a way Jagr never did, and that's despite missing 12 games.

And then taking into account he also has the close but clear edge in overall production, I think the term "slight" might be a bit conservative here. I'm not sure Jagr's possession game is enough to compensate.

 

[JackSlater]

One more thing to consider though is that Lemieux won the goalscoring race by a clear margin in a way Jagr never did, and that's despite missing 12 games.

And then taking into account he also has the close but clear edge in overall production, I think the term "slight" might be a bit conservative here. I'm not sure Jagr's possession game is enough to compensate.

Lemieux doesn't get double credit for goals and also points. He outscored Jagr, sure. Compare them to their peers, as 1999 was a much lower scoring season, and the gap shrinks, as already noted in the post that you quoted. Then look at who they played with. Lemieux had a teammate who scored 149 points in Jagr, another who had 119 in Francis, and one who had 99 in Nedved. Pittsburgh led the NHL in goals with 362, over 30 goals more than powerhouse Detroit and Colorado teams and 80 goals more than the second highest scoring team in the Eastern conference - the team could have removed all of Lemieux's goals and still comfortably led the conference in goals. Jagr's highest scoring teammate (Straka) had 83 points , which is good, but the third and fourth highest scoring players on the team had 56 and 46 points. Seven 1996 Penguins outscored the third highest scoring Penguin in 1996. Pittsburgh 1999 had 242 goals, which was still fourth in the NHL (third in the conference) but a far cry from 1996 Pittsburgh's 362 goals... as in a 120 goal difference.

So yeah, slight edge to Lemieux offensively. He scored 33 more points than Jagr did on a team that scored 120 more goals, playing with elite offensive players while Jagr didn't, and in a league where scoring was 19% higher. Considering then that Lemieux by that point was completely an offence only player and that Jagr was probably the best possession player in the NHL in 1999, and I admit that neither of them played defence, then it's Jagr for me.