Per @Hockey Outsider's suggestion, I've decided to extend the bracket from 1977 to 1969 so there's a full 32 player bracket.
blundluntman
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- Jul 30, 2016
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Hart Trophy Tournament (1969-00) Round 1: 1969 Esposito vs 1999 Jagr
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blundluntman
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- Jul 30, 2016
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Personally, I'm leaning towards Jagr given how dominant he was on a pretty mediocre Pittsburgh team, but it could definitely go either way. I'm very eager to hear arguments for Esposito.
I've always found 69 to be a very interesting season that was in some ways overshadowed by the 70's onward (Orr's peak, Esposito's goal-scoring tear, Clarke, Lafleur, and later Gretzky). It was the first time in league history anybody scored 100 points, and the dawnof a brand new era of hockey in a lot of ways. But Esposito's 69 Hart has always felt more like a footnote to me from a historical lense.
Anyway, Esposito had some stellar competition that year in Howe, Bobby Hull, and Mikita. Orr was already phenomenal by this point but he hadn't completely hit his stride; so I wouldn't say he was riding Bobby's coattails. Regardless, I'd still take Orr, Hodge and Bucyk over Straka and 46 games of Kovalev all things considered. Their gap between their competition was nearly identical, but Espo missed 6 games so he was a bit better (not sure how much of that I attribute to linemates but it may even things out).
I'd love to hear what people who were watching the Bruins at that time thought about Espo and what made that season so great.
I've always found 69 to be a very interesting season that was in some ways overshadowed by the 70's onward (Orr's peak, Esposito's goal-scoring tear, Clarke, Lafleur, and later Gretzky). It was the first time in league history anybody scored 100 points, and the dawnof a brand new era of hockey in a lot of ways. But Esposito's 69 Hart has always felt more like a footnote to me from a historical lense.
Anyway, Esposito had some stellar competition that year in Howe, Bobby Hull, and Mikita. Orr was already phenomenal by this point but he hadn't completely hit his stride; so I wouldn't say he was riding Bobby's coattails. Regardless, I'd still take Orr, Hodge and Bucyk over Straka and 46 games of Kovalev all things considered. Their gap between their competition was nearly identical, but Espo missed 6 games so he was a bit better (not sure how much of that I attribute to linemates but it may even things out).
I'd love to hear what people who were watching the Bruins at that time thought about Espo and what made that season so great.
Video Nasty
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- Mar 12, 2017
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Tough one right out of the gate.
Esposito was 36 points ahead of his closest teammate, doubled up the already two-time Norris winner Orr in points, and set a new league record for both assists and points, while leaving 2 games on the table. 19 point Art Art Ross win.
Jagr was 42 points clear of his closest teammate, had 20 point lead over Selanne who played 6 fewer games. Obviously a lower scoring environment, so his 127 is pretty impressive and served as the high-water mark of recent times until Kucherov’s 128 in 2018-2019.
A lot of similarities and I was going to give the edge to Espo if I looked up Jagr and the numbers pointed to a stumble down the stretch that he could have prevented, because I vaguely remember the Penguins taking a bit of a tumble into that eighth seed (no one 9th or below were even close so there was never true danger of missing the playoffs).
So I looked it up. Pittsburgh had a 10 game winning streak that pushed them to a high for the season of 30-15-7. Jagr had 10 goals and 26 points during that run. That was 57.8% of their offense. They tread water for awhile to sit at 36-22-12. Jagr had 25 points during those 18 games. Pittsburgh only scored 45 goals in those 18 games, so that’s still 55.6% of their offense.
The stumble comes finishing 2-8-2 over the final 12 games. Jagr misses 1 of those games and has 17 points in the other 11. Pittsburgh scored 27 goals, which includes the game he missed. That’s 63% of their offensive production. Nothing more he could have done.
Ultimately, Jagr factored in on 52.5% of their goals for the season and his percentage only went up during the second half. He had 68 points off their 117 goals during the final 40 games (58.1%). It’s more incredible than I remembered it even.
I also gave the edge to Jagr because I actually watched that season in real time. Unfair to Espo, who I think gets overlooked constantly, but I can’t go against what I actually witnessed when the seasons feel this close. Less close by the time I completed this post though.
I also agree that more insight on this season by Esposito would be most welcome.
Esposito was 36 points ahead of his closest teammate, doubled up the already two-time Norris winner Orr in points, and set a new league record for both assists and points, while leaving 2 games on the table. 19 point Art Art Ross win.
Jagr was 42 points clear of his closest teammate, had 20 point lead over Selanne who played 6 fewer games. Obviously a lower scoring environment, so his 127 is pretty impressive and served as the high-water mark of recent times until Kucherov’s 128 in 2018-2019.
A lot of similarities and I was going to give the edge to Espo if I looked up Jagr and the numbers pointed to a stumble down the stretch that he could have prevented, because I vaguely remember the Penguins taking a bit of a tumble into that eighth seed (no one 9th or below were even close so there was never true danger of missing the playoffs).
So I looked it up. Pittsburgh had a 10 game winning streak that pushed them to a high for the season of 30-15-7. Jagr had 10 goals and 26 points during that run. That was 57.8% of their offense. They tread water for awhile to sit at 36-22-12. Jagr had 25 points during those 18 games. Pittsburgh only scored 45 goals in those 18 games, so that’s still 55.6% of their offense.
The stumble comes finishing 2-8-2 over the final 12 games. Jagr misses 1 of those games and has 17 points in the other 11. Pittsburgh scored 27 goals, which includes the game he missed. That’s 63% of their offensive production. Nothing more he could have done.
Ultimately, Jagr factored in on 52.5% of their goals for the season and his percentage only went up during the second half. He had 68 points off their 117 goals during the final 40 games (58.1%). It’s more incredible than I remembered it even.
I also gave the edge to Jagr because I actually watched that season in real time. Unfair to Espo, who I think gets overlooked constantly, but I can’t go against what I actually witnessed when the seasons feel this close. Less close by the time I completed this post though.
I also agree that more insight on this season by Esposito would be most welcome.
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JackSlater
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Jagr, but while I am not an Esposito fan this was a great season and to me clearly Esposito's peak. Orr hadn't yet become the insanely dominant Orr we think of (that was next season) and Cashman wasn't there yet to complete Esposito's dominant line from the 1970s. Boston's power play hadn't gone supernova yet, as it would in the 1970s. Hull and Mikita in their late primes are elite competition and Esposito decimated them in scoring. Finally at that point Boston absolutely dominated when Esposito was on the ice (outscoring opponents more than 2 to 1) was was only mediocre when he was off the ice, which is not the case for some of Esposito's later Art Ross seasons. Dominant season.
It's still Jagr given how dominant he was and the crap he played with, but that is a great season by Esposito.
It's still Jagr given how dominant he was and the crap he played with, but that is a great season by Esposito.
I voted Jagr - this is possibly his very best season. Certainly his best season without Lemieux. It's also a great season by Espo, but I still give Jagr the edge.
Also - I'm supert excited for this tournament, and I legitimately have no idea which season is going to win. So many good options.
Also - I'm supert excited for this tournament, and I legitimately have no idea which season is going to win. So many good options.
Jagr really carried the Pens in the years without Mario. No offense to Straka and Hrdina but they weren’t exactly elite centers.
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