Hamilton II: The City, The League, and The Coliseum

[JMROWE]

I don't have one. Hamilton does not have one. I have a problem with you putting down QC when they have done all that.
The team would play in the colisee until the new arena was built
And tell me how is the NHL team going to solve any of Hamiltons other problems? And what is wrong with the Leafs. And why do you care if Toronto or Detroit gets a second team.

Quebecor is in talks right now
http://www.thescore.com/home/articles/139977-report-quebecor-in-talks-with-nhl

There is plenty wrong with 2nd team in Toronto the reason being after 20+ years Hamilton of fighting to get what was promised to them by the NHL. & Toronto all of sudden just comes & scoops 2nd NHL. team for themselves MLSE. alows it which they won't is wrong & selfish but what do you expect from Toronto they think there the center of the universe & have a me , my self & I Attitude about them .

What makes you think that Quebec City deserves an NHL. team ahead of Hamilton is it because you said so because Hamilton is ready to go right now reason being is they can renovate Copps on the fly without closing the arena down for construction & Hamilton makes more business sense anybody that thinks Quebec City is better for the NHL. than Hamilton has been smoking somthing ferice because the NHL. + Hamilton = alot more of this $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ than Winnipeg & Quebec City combined & don't get me wrong I think Quebec City deserves to have NHL. team back there just not ahead of Hamilton because we have been waiting longer for a team & are ready right now & as for that F\S code excuse shows you that bettman is getting to the bottom of the excuse barrel when it comes to Hamilton so Munch on that Melrose .

 

[Melrose Munch]

There is plenty wrong with 2nd team in Toronto the reason being after 20+ years Hamilton of fighting to get what was promised to them by the NHL. & Toronto all of sudden just comes & scoops 2nd NHL. team for themselves MLSE. alows it which they won't is wrong & selfish but what do you expect from Toronto they think there the center of the universe & have a me , my self & I Attitude about them .

What makes you think that Quebec City deserves an NHL. team ahead of Hamilton is it because you said so because Hamilton is ready to go right now reason being is they can renovate Copps on the fly without closing the arena down for construction & Hamilton makes more business sense anybody that thinks Quebec City is better for the NHL. than Hamilton has been smoking somthing ferice because the NHL. + Hamilton = alot more of this $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ than Winnipeg & Quebec City combined & don't get me wrong I think Quebec City deserves to have NHL. team back there just not ahead of Hamilton because we have been waiting longer for a team & are ready right now & as for that F\S code excuse shows you that bettman is getting to the bottom of the excuse barrel when it comes to Hamilton so Munch on that Melrose .

So its not fair because...you feel that way. The NHL has not promised anything within the last 5 years. 20 years ago, under different times, yes. Bettman also preferred Winnipeg. Quebec City has had and supported a hockey team before. Hamilton does not sell out AHL games. Hamilton could not even hold to a junior franchise. You feel you deserve the best, kind of like how people in Toronto feel they deserve the best and don't watch the CFL. Same Dynamic different sport.

And I asked you, how will this improve Hamilton's other problems?

 

[Ryan34222]

So its not fair because...you feel that way. The NHL has not promised anything within the last 5 years. 20 years ago, under different times, yes. Bettman also preferred Winnipeg. Quebec City has had and supported a hockey team before. Hamilton does not sell out AHL games. Hamilton could not even hold to a junior franchise. You feel you deserve the best, kind of like how people in Toronto feel they deserve the best and don't watch the CFL. Same Dynamic different sport.

And I asked you, how will this improve Hamilton's other problems?

Alright I'll bite... What is Hamiltons "other" problems..

 

[Melrose Munch]

Alright I'll bite... What is Hamiltons "other" problems..

This city is one of the poorest in Canada, we have lost nearly all our major employers. A hockey will draw till they start to suck.

 

[dronald]

So its not fair because...you feel that way. The NHL has not promised anything within the last 5 years. 20 years ago, under different times, yes. Bettman also preferred Winnipeg. Quebec City has had and supported a hockey team before. Hamilton does not sell out AHL games. Hamilton could not even hold to a junior franchise. You feel you deserve the best, kind of like how people in Toronto feel they deserve the best and don't watch the CFL. Same Dynamic different sport.

And I asked you, how will this improve Hamilton's other problems?

No one cares about the AHL for the last time, honestly this is not an arguement. If it was, then Balsillie and other billionaires would not be interested in putting a team there.

The only thing, and I mean the only thing that's keeping a team out of Hamilton is the NHL just doesn't want a team there, that's it. People need to stop making up new excuses when that's all it is. Team in Phoenix? Fine. Team in Hamilton? No.

 

[Firestorm]

Alright I'll bite... What is Hamiltons "other" problems..

That it's a dump, especially by Copps.

 

[Ryan34222]

This city is one of the poorest in Canada, we have lost nearly all our major employers. A hockey will draw till they start to suck.

Not saying any of that is true or not but IMO opinion that's what fans should do.. Force ownership to keep the team competitive.

 

[Ryan34222]

That it's a dump, especially by Copps.

riiiiight a big ole dump

 

[dronald]

http://communities.canada.com/vanco...d-for-nhl-now-why-wasn-t-hamilton-before.aspx

Article posted an hour ago about why Hamilton won't get a franchise. Same thing as I said, they just dont want one there.

 

[Melrose Munch]

http://communities.canada.com/vanco...d-for-nhl-now-why-wasn-t-hamilton-before.aspx

Article posted an hour ago about why Hamilton won't get a franchise. Same thing as I said, they just dont want one there.

The point. They just don't. This actually makes me seems minor.

So where did this non-agreed agreement come from? When the lockout was in its infancy in 2004 the big teams of the league—the Flyers, Rangers, Black Hawks, Red Wings, Leafs etc—expressed concern about the loss of revenue. Bettman assuaged their anxieties with assertions that the desired salary cap would create even more revenue. For the Leafs—the organization with the highest revenue—the league quietly assured the club that they would quash any desire a team had to move into such an underexploited area. The Leafs wanted it all for themselves. The league needed the support of the Leafs and agreed.

This is key.

 

[Ryan34222]

The point. They just don't. This actually makes me seems minor.


This is key.

Happy now!

 

[Killion]

....it is nowhere near ready for an NHL team.......the scoreboard is brutal.

Ya, it needs to be boiled & bleached, gutted & aired. Big job. But doable. If the costs to reno & retro-fit the building supercede those of a brand new facility, then that too should be considered. And the scoreboard?. In an ironic twist of fate, Hamilton actually bought that from Winnipeg in 96-97 after the Jets left. Maybe it came with a curse.....

Same thing as I said, they just dont want one there.

".....they just dont want one there". Apparently not. Pretty simple. According to author Hobson of the Vancouver Sun, a secret deal made pre-lockout in 04 between the league & Toronto that they'd receive territorial rights beyond the norm into what?. Perpetuity?. If true, this is illegal. This information was not made public when the Canadian Competition Bureau did their investigation.

Gary Bettman is on record as stating "MLSE does not have a veto" while the letter produced by Balsillie during BK from MLSE to the league directly disputes & contradicts Mr.Bettmans' publicly stated position. The author of the article also goes on to point out how the Hamilton-Niagara region is easily, hands down, a superior market to Winnipeg or QC, something thats as obvious & as plain as day to anyone who does an even cursory study of the matter.

Your kidding yourself if you dont think the NHL wouldnt just love to cash those Hamilton chips, and I believe they will be, shortly, as their financial storms get worse & worse & worse. They'll have no choice in the matter.

 

[Killion]

This is key.

Ya, its "key" alright. It's key to proving anti-trust & anti-competition against MLSE & the NHL. But why bother?. The leagues hand is being forced. Eventually, they will wind up in Hamilton. No choice in the matter.

 

[JMROWE]

Hamilton is the top ranked city in Ontario in which to invest in & 3rd in the country aslo Daryl Katz & AEG I belive are still in talks to buy hecfi the city run company that runs Copps Coliseum . Lets not forget both Katz & AEG. are in Bettman inner circle so you can't tell me that there is no intrest in the Hamilton market .

Here are 4 scenarios I came up with for NHL. team southern ontario

1. They play in newly renovated Copps Coliseum
2. They play in a new arena built in aldershot
3. They play in a new arena built at the west harbour site
4. They play in a new arena in built in cambridge

There where rumors about theses all 4 sites to house an NHL. team for southwestern ontario .

 

[dronald]

Gary Bettman is on record as stating "MLSE does not have a veto" while the letter produced by Balsillie during BK from MLSE to the league directly disputes & contradicts Mr.Bettmans' publicly stated position. The author of the article also goes on to point out how the Hamilton-Niagara region is easily, hands down, a superior market to Winnipeg or QC, something thats as obvious & as plain as day to anyone who does an even cursory study of the matter.

That's the thing though, even though Hamilton is more viable than Winnipeg or QC the NHL knows that Buffalo and Toronto will cry, therefore they have to come up with any possible excuse other than the veto to keep a team away from Hamilton.

I would say though, that the biggest reason Hamilton does not get a team is because Bettman is busy putting teams in the South.

Your kidding yourself if you dont think the NHL wouldnt just love to cash those Hamilton chips, and I believe they will be, shortly, as their financial storms get worse & worse & worse. They'll have no choice in the matter.

Perhaps, but I would still give it another 10 to 15 years before they finally come to their senses. It's sad, but true...

 

[Melrose Munch]

Happy now!

Not really. Its anti free market in its essence.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Handshake deal between Leafs and NHL over Hamilton?

So where did this non-agreed agreement come from? When the lockout was in its infancy in 2004 the big teams of the league—the Flyers, Rangers, Black Hawks, Red Wings, Leafs etc—expressed concern about the loss of revenue. Bettman assuaged their anxieties with assertions that the desired salary cap would create even more revenue. For the Leafs—the organization with the highest revenue—the league quietly assured the club that they would quash any desire a team had to move into such an underexploited area. The Leafs wanted it all for themselves. The league needed the support of the Leafs and agreed.

http://communities.canada.com/vanco...d-for-nhl-now-why-wasn-t-hamilton-before.aspx

Is this not illegal?

 

[dronald]

dronald... should we make a seperate thread about this article? This needs to be made public IMO.

You may if you like, however I dont see this article as much of break through. It's really what many have been saying for a long time now...

 

[The Saw Is the Law]

Damn cartel

 

[dronald]

The problem is, there is no real proof that the NHL has had any kind of agreement with Toronto. There really isn't any proof that the reason a team stays out of Hamilton is because Toronto can veto.

Notice when teams are kept away from Hamilton, the NHL tries to make excuses that exlude any Toronto interference. If Balsillie would have waited until today to purchase the Thrashers for way more than True North and move them to Hamilton with no prior involvement with the NHL they would still find a way to deny them.

 

[danishh]

merged back here. separate thread is not necessary. keep the hamilton talk here.

 

[MoreOrr]

What proof is needed? Doesn't MLSE simply have the right, by NHL Law, to say NO? The only "handshake deal" that I'd imagine being seen as necessarily is the League go along with not making it so obvious that Toronto simply says, NO! And to do that, the League never speaks out in contraction to MLSE's wishes to keep a team out of Hamilton (or anywhere in southern Ontario, within Leafs exclusive territory) for that matter.

 

[Melrose Munch]

The problem is, there is no real proof that the NHL has had any kind of agreement with Toronto. There really isn't any proof that the reason a team stays out of Hamilton is because Toronto can veto.

Notice when teams are kept away from Hamilton, the NHL tries to make excuses that exlude any Toronto interference. If Balsillie would have waited until today to purchase the Thrashers for way more than True North and move them to Hamilton with no prior involvement with the NHL they would still find a way to deny them.

I haven't been the biggest Hamilton cheerleader, but I hope we get a team if this is true. IMO this is why Newspapers lose money. This needs to be found out.

 

[Melrose Munch]

What proof is needed? Doesn't MLSE simply have the right, by NHL Law, to say NO? The only "handshake deal" that I'd imagine being seen as necessarily is the League go along with not making it so obvious that Toronto simply says, NO! And by to do that, the League never speaks out in contraction to MLSE's wishes to keep a team out of Hamilton (or anywhere in southern Ontario, within Leafs exclusive territory) for that matter.

No. MLSE does not have a Veto. They should not, in theory, be able to block a team in Hamilton.

 

[MoreOrr]

No. MLSE does not have a Veto. They should not, in theory, be able to block a team in Hamilton.

What purpose does a 80km/50mi territorial zone serve then? Just an area that a team is permitted to charge an exorbitant fee to allow another team to enter?