Hall Of Fame: What About Paul Reinhart? | Page 2 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League
Toggle sidebar

Hall Of Fame: What About Paul Reinhart?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Copmuter*
  • Start date Start date
TheDevilMadeMe said:
Reinhart's Norris record:

82-83: 7th
88-89: 12th

That's it. Probably not even Hall of Very Good calibre.
Click to expand...

sure it probably isn't but it's a metric Paul won't do well in for the big reason of health.

The 83 season is one of several seasons he tops 70 GP.

Other than his rookie season he is near a PG for the rest of his career and play really flowed through him.

Sure he wasn't a Rod Langway but he played enough on the PK in his career to suggest that he wasn't that bad defensively.

The eye test backs that up as well, much better than Green defensively.

If he stays healthy who knows but he didn't so he is in the Hall of very good territory.

Interesting note is that he grew up playing minor hockey against Wayne Gretzky and he and Wayne always squared off as best on best in those matches.
 
seventieslord said:
well, for one thing, Norris voting actually captures (or at least it used to capture) overall value, while production only captures talent and offensive opportunity (and don't ignore opportunity, because he played a lot of center and was also double shifted on the PP some seasons).
Click to expand...

no doubt he would be doubled shifted on the PP, he was a great PP QB.

but as to how often he paled center, i'm sure it wasn't alot as I watched some Calgary games and rarely saw him playing center and looking at their lineup while he was there they wouldn't have a great need in him playing center.
 
Reinhart and Larry Murphy were probably similar-level players, but Murphy was one of the most durable defenders ever while Reinhart was made of glass and out of the NHL by age 30.

If he could have stayed healthy, he might have had a shot. As it is, not even close.
 
Hardyvan123 said:
no doubt he would be doubled shifted on the PP, he was a great PP QB.

but as to how often he paled center, i'm sure it wasn't alot as I watched some Calgary games and rarely saw him playing center and looking at their lineup while he was there they wouldn't have a great need in him playing center.
Click to expand...

That's not relevant if every other comparable player is double shifted on the PP, but if they're not, then it does mean his point totals are deceptive compared to theirs.

1983, 1989 and 1990 are the years where he's on the ice for over 90% of his team's PP goals.

as for him playing center, it needs more research probably.
 
Do you think he played centre because the Canucks needed a centre? And because Reinhart could play centre very well. Not because he was poor defensively? Like for the opposite reasons that Housley played forward?

I think Reinhart might be one if those few players that injuries robbed of true greatness. Where what if's could actually matter. I think his talent was truly superb. I think his defence was not a massive weakness. He was gifted offensively but sound defensively.

He absolutely should not even be talked about for the HHOF but he had the talent to maybe get there if he was healthy with a long career.
 
Copmuters said:
The same voters that awarded Rod Langway back-to-back Norris trophies?
Click to expand...

In this case, the exception proves the rule. Langway's Norris trophies were clearly at least partly a result of a major backlash against the type of defensemen who were getting votes at that time.
 
No he doesn't deserve HOF consideration, but I think he had the skill level to get there, if he could have stayed healthy, and played on a Cup contending team.

But, that could be said of a lot of players though.

But while he doesn't deserve HOF consideration, he deserves to be remembered for being a darn good d-man.
I'd take him over a guy like Phil Housley without a second thought.
 
Sens Rule said:
Do you think he played centre because the Canucks needed a centre? And because Reinhart could play centre very well. Not because he was poor defensively? Like for the opposite reasons that Housley played forward?
Click to expand...

It could have been those reasons. I am not particularly concerned with what the reasons are. Just that if we're going to judge a defenseman by offensive totals then we should acknowledge the situational advantage he had putting those totals up.
 
Sens Rule said:
Do you think he played centre because the Canucks needed a centre? And because Reinhart could play centre very well. Not because he was poor defensively? Like for the opposite reasons that Housley played forward?
Click to expand...

Reinhart only played defense with the Canucks.

And from what I can gather, only played center for a few short stretches in 1981-82 and 1982-83, although it was something that was mentioned as a skill in guidebooks through the rest of the 1980s. It wasn't like he spent full seasons as a center.
 
ted1971 said:
It's not always about the numbers my friend. The 80's scoring was the highest in history remember, so the numbers are a bit skewed compared to some of the lower scoring eras in history.
Click to expand...

i don't know about that. reinhart was a very important offensive contributor to some very competitive flames teams. this bears more analysis, or at least someone who remembers those flames teams, which i don't. it seems like defensemen cleaned up in scoring on those teams (macinnis and suter also led the team in playoff scoring), so that might have augmented reinhart's seriously pretty amazing playoff numbers. but then it's not like he really slowed down the one year vancouver made the playoffs either, so who knows?

the raw stats:

1981, made it to the third round as a 21 year old in his second year in the league:

rank | name | position | games | goals | assists | points
1 | Guy Chouinard | C | 16 | 3 | 14 | 17
2 | Ken Houston | RW | 16 | 7 | 8 | 15
3 | Paul Reinhart | D | 16 | 1 | 14 | 15
4 | Bob MacMillan | RW | 16 | 8 | 6 | 14


1983, with three guys tied for third with 7 points each:

rank | name | position | games | goals | assists | points
1 | Kent Nilsson | C | 9 | 1 | 11 | 12
2 | Paul Reinhart | D | 9 | 6 | 3 | 9


1984:

rank | name | position | games | goals | assists | points
1 | Paul Reinhart | D | 11 | 6 | 11 | 17
2 | Al MacInnis | D | 11 | 2 | 12 | 14
3 | Lanny McDonald | RW | 11 | 6 | 7 | 13


1986, run to the finals:

rank | name | position | games | goals | assists | points
1 | Joe Mullen | RW | 21 | 12 | 7 | 19
2 | Al MacInnis | D | 21 | 4 | 15 | 19
3 | Lanny McDonald | RW | 22 | 11 | 7 | 18
4 | Paul Reinhart | D | 21 | 5 | 13 | 18
5 | Doug Risebrough | C | 22 | 7 | 9 | 16


1988, his last year in calgary:

rank | name | position | games | goals | assists | points
1 | Gary Suter | D | 9 | 1 | 9 | 10
2 | Hakan Loob | RW | 9 | 8 | 1 | 9
3 | Al MacInnis | D | 7 | 3 | 6 | 9
4 | Paul Reinhart | D | 8 | 2 | 7 | 9
5 | Joe Nieuwendyk | C | 8 | 3 | 4 | 7


and to put those finishes into relief, total playoff points by a defenseman in the '80s:

rank | name | games | goals | assists | points
1 | Paul Coffey* | 105 | 38 | 80 | 118
2 | Denis Potvin* | 136 | 38 | 79 | 117
3 | Larry Robinson* | 133 | 15 | 70 | 85
4 | Al MacInnis* | 69 | 18 | 59 | 77
5 | Paul Reinhart | 83 | 23 | 54 | 77
6 | Raymond Bourque* | 87 | 15 | 59 | 74
7 | Chris Chelios* | 93 | 16 | 51 | 67
8 | Doug Wilson | 66 | 14 | 48 | 62
9 | Brad Maxwell | 79 | 12 | 49 | 61
10 | Charlie Huddy | 98 | 13 | 48 | 61


and playoff points/game by defensemen in the 80s, minimum of 12 GP:

rank | name | points/game
1 | Paul Coffey* | 1.12
2 | Al MacInnis* | 1.12
3 | Doug Wilson | 0.94
4 | Paul Reinhart | 0.93
5 | Gary Suter | 0.87
6 | Denis Potvin* | 0.86
7 | Raymond Bourque* | 0.85
8 | Scott Stevens* | 0.85
9 | Brad Maxwell | 0.77
10 | Steve Duchesne | 0.76


the three flames jumps out at me right away, but so does the fact that reinhart's company is exclusively hall of famers other than doug wilson, who is basically the next best thing.
 
MS said:
Reinhart only played defense with the Canucks.

And from what I can gather, only played center for a few short stretches in 1981-82 and 1982-83, although it was something that was mentioned as a skill in guidebooks through the rest of the 1980s. It wasn't like he spent full seasons as a center.
Click to expand...

"He scored his 100th career goal, playing at centre, while recording a hat trick in a 6–5 win over the Edmonton Oilers on November 24, 1986."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Reinhart#Professional
 
kmad said:
I think the popular pick from this board would be JC Tremblay.

I'm personally undecided. I've campaigned for Flash Hollett for a while but I don't really feel that way anymore.

Definitely not Phil Housley.
Click to expand...

True, but he's the best defenseman (offensively) not in the Hall.
 
Copmuters said:
Reinhart is 6th all-time in points-per-game in the regular season among D-men...

133 goals, 559 points in 648 games (.863 PPG)


And 4th all-time in points-per-game in the playoffs among D-men...

23 goals, 77 points in 83 games (.928 PPG)




He was plagued by back injuries during his career and was forced to retire after the 1990 season at the age of 31

The Hall of Fame has inducted players who have had excellent, albeit shortened careers...

So should Reinhart have been inducted?
Click to expand...

no way in hell is the bar that low--in his prime he was not even top ten in active d-fencemen in the league#

Also--with the flames he road shotgun on with Al McInnis
 
Hardyvan123 said:
Actually he didn't ride shotgun to McInnis during his time in Calgary.

Al emerged at his peak after Paul left, as he is 3 years younger than Paul.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/pla...val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=points

But don't let the facts get in the way.
Click to expand...

I think the facts say that, between '83/84-'87/88, Reinhart and MacInnis are two out of three defensemen who were Flames for all 5 of those seasons (other: Sheehy). Those two guys also combine for 59 of the 90 total PP goals they got from defensemen over that span, so even if I didn't remember for myself, I'd say those two at least rocked a lot of powerplays together.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)

Latest posts

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom