Player Discussion Halfway Mark Grades

[sheed36]

A bit surprised to see Armia so low on some lists. Seems he's getting a bit of the Eller and Lehkonen treatment of if you're not scoring and getting points you aren't playing well.

For anyone paying attention though despite not putting up points Armia is still playing quite well. He's been a beast on the boards this season, forechecking very well, playing very well on the PK with Evans and playing a good responsible defensive game overall. He doesn't have the fancy stats but he's still contributing in other ways and is helping this Habs team win games playing in his current role and he's been quite effective at it.

Same goes for Anderson and even Dvo really. Both are not putting up much offense but both are still contributing to the team success in other ways which often goes unnoticed and gets underappreciated because people see zeros on the scoresheet after games. I bet their teammates really appreciate having these guys and what they bring to the team though.

 

[Gillings]

Suzuki - A-
Gally - B-
Caufield - A
Slav - C+
Evans - B+
Anderson - B
Hutson - A
Newhook - C+
Guhle - A-
Xhekaj - B
Matheson - C+
Savard - C+
Heineman - B+
Armia - B
Dvorak - D+
Montemabeault - A
Laine - B
Struble - C+

Carrier - A-
Primeau - D+
Pezzetta - C-
Dach - C+

Thoughts !

Mine^

 

[LaP]

There's more to assessing a player than looking at the pts line.

That's the thing though Newhook is not scoring great "in the mores" either. He's not physical. Not very good defensively. Despite his speed he'd not a very good forechecker or backchecker either. He's filling a Jersey in the top 6 atm. He's surviving more than anything else. Now maybe he'd do better in a lesser role if we had someone to replace him.

 

[LaP]

Suzuki - A
Caufield - A
Slaf - C+
Laine - B+
Dach - C
Newhook - D
Armia - A+
Evans - A+
Heineman - A
Gallagher - B
Anderson - B
Dvorak - C
Hutson - A+
Matheson - B
Guhle - B+
Savard - C (based on him playing in the top 4 for most of the first half)
Carrier - B
Xhekaj - C+
Barron - E
Montembeault - B-
Primeau - F
Dobes - (sample size too small)

My evaluation is based on the way a player is playing considering his usage (TOI) and not where he was drafted or how much he is being paid or how good he is. Obviously a 1st line player getting a A will have a greater impact than a 3rd line player getting a A. The letter is based on his play giving his position in the lineup (which the player can't control)

 

[Doom Bot]

Suzuki - B
Gally - C
Caufield - B
Dach - C
Slav - C
Evans - A
Anderson - B
Hutson - A
Newhook - D
Guhle - B
Xhekaj - C
Matheson - B
Savard - C
Heineman - A
Armia - B
Dvorak - D
Montemabeault - B
Laine - B
Dobes - A
Struble - C
Carrier - B

I rated based on what should be expected of them at this point. Like Suzuki and Caufield are both great, but right now I think they are playing to expectations, not overly exceeding them. Suzuki has the talent to be a decently above PPG player if his consistency was really dialed in for a full season, as an example. Similar to what Konecny is doing.

 

[le_sean]

That's the thing though Newhook is not scoring great "in the mores" either. He's not physical. Not very good defensively. Despite his speed he'd not a very good forechecker or backchecker either. He's filling a Jersey in the top 6 atm. He's surviving more than anything else. Now maybe he'd do better in a lesser role if we had someone to replace him.

Exactly. Points are the only thing he does contribute and he contributes 1 every 5 games. In fact he contributes less frequently than that because twice he’s had two points in 1 game. So he’s had a point in 7 of 42 games this year.

It’s not good. It’s downright awful.

 

[Miller Time]

That's the thing though Newhook is not scoring great "in the mores" either. He's not physical. Not very good defensively. Despite his speed he'd not a very good forechecker or backchecker either. He's filling a Jersey in the top 6 atm. He's surviving more than anything else. Now maybe he'd do better in a lesser role if we had someone to replace him.

His coach clearly disagrees with that assessment, as do I.

He's far more effective than you paint him to be from what I've observed.

He's struggling offensively, and he's not going to be the top defensive forward in the roster, to be sure... But I think your critique is overly harsh

 

[vokiel]

Exactly. Points are the only thing he does contribute and he contributes 1 every 5 games. In fact he contributes less frequently than that because twice he’s had two points in 1 game. So he’s had a point in 7 of 42 games this year.

It’s not good. It’s downright awful.

So.. he'd be good enough and versatile enough to take the 13th forward spot.

Meaning we need another middle-six winger somewhere.

 

[Frankenheimer]

A bit surprised to see Armia so low on some lists. Seems he's getting a bit of the Eller and Lehkonen treatment of if you're not scoring and getting points you aren't playing well.

For anyone paying attention though despite not putting up points Armia is still playing quite well. He's been a beast on the boards this season, forechecking very well, playing very well on the PK with Evans and playing a good responsible defensive game overall. He doesn't have the fancy stats but he's still contributing in other ways and is helping this Habs team win games playing in his current role and he's been quite effective at it.

Same goes for Anderson and even Dvo really. Both are not putting up much offense but both are still contributing to the team success in other ways which often goes unnoticed and gets underappreciated because people see zeros on the scoresheet after games. I bet their teammates really appreciate having these guys and what they bring to the team though.

Couldn't agree more. It's clear game after game our 3-4 lines are outplaying opponents 3-4 lines and that this is making a huge impact. They're often controlling flow of game, creating turnovers, disrupting passing lanes, putting pressure on defense winning board battles, and keeping puck 200 feet from out net. Makes the job of our top lines a lot easier. MSL has made Anderson, Dvo, and Gallagher a very effective line and nearly killed all of the frustration surrounding their contracts. Dvo's main issue is he cant convert his opportunities like Jake Evans. I'm sure MSL is giving all six of our bottom forwards a mininum of a B, with Armia, Heineman and Evans probably a few points higher.

 

[Miller Time]

Weak argument is thinking he contributes anything on the ice. 4 points in his last 21 games. Wow what a player. 15 mins per game.

Maybe you should take over coaching the team then lol

You really have no leg to stand on. You can just simply admit he’s been horrendous this season.

Empty hyperbole

You’re just lying to yourself by defending him over and over again.

Defending him? Nope, last time I checked, a "C" grade isn't a mark of achievement... Try again.

Not sure if he’s your cousin or what, but it’s funny. Apparently anyone who disagrees with you just doesn’t watch the games.

No, just posters who post empty hyperbole with nothing to substantiate it except pointing to 1 stat line. Stat watching is all fine and good, just doesn't equate to much of an argument other than the obvious

 

[Miller Time]

So.. he'd be good enough and versatile enough to take the 13th forward spot.

Meaning we need another middle-six winger somewhere.

This is precisely what I was pointing to...

No question that we need more from a middle 6 winger than what Newhook has provided this season to be well set up for a deep post season run...

I just can't quite grasp why anyone would believe that a player the same age who is currently 13th in ice time/game, earning 4min/game less than Newhook this season, despite his struggles, is going to be that upgrade over the next 3-5 years... It's an odd stance imo

 

[Kennerback]

I hated Primeau and Barron. You play guys like that in the first or second year of a rebuild. We’re not there anymore. I don’t like Struble on the right side. Pezz is just out of it. Either rusty or not playing the system well. Otherwise, as long as everyone is buying in and hustling, I’m very happy. Even with Newhook and Matheson.

 

[Habs]

Carrier - A-
Primeau - D+
Pezzetta - C-
Dach - C+

Mine^

Dach has been very good with and without the puck the last 10 or so he could finish a B at year's end... and Carrier is not an A- for me.. good B till this point. Oh and Pez is always a B+ , I'd like a mod to give you a warning for that.

 

[le_sean]

No, just posters who post empty hyperbole with nothing to substantiate it except pointing to 1 stat line. Stat watching is all fine and good, just doesn't equate to much of an argument other than the obvious

Okay so please explain to all of us not intelligent enough to understand what exactly he brings to a team since you just want to tell us we are wrong without ever having an actual argument.

Does Newhook

Produce? No
Kill penalties? No
Play well on the PP? No
Shutdown opposing players? No
Play physical? No
Forecheck well? No

Is it all because of

A lack of opportunity? No
Low icetime? No
Injury? No

What is there left for him to do? Cheerlead on the bench?

Provide something other than "empty hyperbole"

 

[Miller Time]

Okay so please explain to all of us

That's unecessary. I'm replying to your bad take. If you can't keep that in perspective, better to move on.

not intelligent

Bad takes aren't a reflection of intelligence, again, no need for the unecessary drama or hyperbole.

enough to understand what exactly he brings to a team since you just want to tell us we are wrong without ever having an actual argument.

The argument is quite simple. He's earning top 6 forward ice time this year despite his offensive struggles.

Imo that reflects his coaches belief that he brings more to the team, currently, than Heineman (despite Emil's better offensive production).

Really nothing that hard to understand. Not sure I can simplify it any more than that, sorry.

Does Newhook

Produce? No
Kill penalties? No
Play well on the PP? No
Shutdown opposing players? No
Play physical? No
Forecheck well? No

Is it all because of

A lack of opportunity? No
Low icetime? No
Injury? No

Typing no doesn't mean what you think it does.

What is there left for him to do? Cheerlead on the bench?

Provide something other than "empty hyperbole"

Indeed.

 

[GordonGraham]

Everytime i see this either here or in the paper i never get it

A-B-C-D for everyone, those are all passing grades yet the team is not in the playoffs and playing for .524 not a passing grade either

 

[le_sean]

That's unecessary. I'm replying to your bad take. If you can't keep that in perspective, better to move on.


Bad takes aren't a reflection of intelligence, again, no need for the unecessary drama or hyperbole.

The argument is quite simple. He's earning top 6 forward ice time this year despite his offensive struggles.

Imo that reflects his coaches belief that he brings more to the team, currently, than Heineman (despite Emil's better offensive production).

Really nothing that hard to understand. Not sure I can simplify it any more than that, sorry.



Typing no doesn't mean what you think it does.




Indeed.

You literally have nothing. You keep skirting the question. I should have guessed considering it was you.

Only on the Habs board are we defending pure offensive wingers scoring 0.2 points per game as having a good season because the coach is giving him icetime.

The argument is he isn’t scoring, what is he doing and your answer is "well he’s on the ice". I assume you don’t actually believe the bullshit you’re spewing.

 

[Miller Time]

Everytime i see this either here or in the paper i never get it

A-B-C-D for everyone, those are all passing grades yet the team is not in the playoffs and playing for .524 not a passing grade either

Depends on your context...

I graded from the pov of their performance relative to pre-season expectations.

If one is grading them relative to the rest of the league, then the grades will be much lower... No McDavid or MacKinnon's in this lineup.

You literally have nothing. You keep skirting the question. I should have guessed considering it was you.

Only on the Habs board are we defending pure offensive wingers scoring 0.2 points per game as having a good season because the coach is giving him icetime.

I have no idea what you are going on about.

But, again, using points as your only reference point is a poor way of assessing a player. No need to keep repeating that Newhook has not produced well this year, you're only arguing with yourself lol

 

[le_sean]

I have no idea what you are going on about.

But, again, using points as your only reference point is a poor way of assessing a player. No need to keep repeating that Newhook has not produced well this year, you're only arguing with yourself lol

And I keep asking what is it he’s doing if he’s not producing and you’re saying "well he’s on the ice"

So it doesn’t surprise me you have no idea what’s going on with the conversation since you have no idea how to answer a simple question or give valid points

 

[Saundies]

My grades are all relative to my expectations at the beginning of the year for each guy.

Suzuki - A
Gally - C
Caufield - A+
Dach - C
Slaf - C
Evans - A+
Anderson - B+
Hutson - A+
Newhook - D
Guhle - B
Xhekaj - B-
Matheson - B-
Savard - C+
Heineman - A
Armia - B
Dvorak - D
Montemabeault - B
Laine - B
Dobes - A (Primeau was F)
Struble - C
Carrier - B

Notable performers:

Cole has looked really good and bounced back from what I saw as a so-so year last year.

Nick is his steady self.

Evans, Heineman and Hutson all come out looking great (and Dobes as well)

Anderson has bounced back great this season from last season. He's not going to be what we paid him to be but I'm glad to see he's found a role and took it seriously.

Notable lower grades:

Slaf and Dach - have underperformed expectations. Both can easily turn it around with a strong second half.

Gally - started out good but has petered off.

Newhook - doesn't look like the same guy as last year so far. I'm surprised how little offense he's creating.

Dvo - nothing more to say I haven't said 100 times over.

Struble looks like and should be the odd man out with Carrier in the lineup.

Primeau was probably the worst goalie in the league when he was up.

 

[le_sean]

Newhook - doesn't look like the same guy as last year so far. I'm surprised how little offense he's creating.

Nah man, you didn’t hear? He’s on the ice so it means he’s good.

 

[The Real Timo]

I hated Primeau and Barron. You play guys like that in the first or second year of a rebuild. We’re not there anymore. I don’t like Struble on the right side. Pezz is just out of it. Either rusty or not playing the system well. Otherwise, as long as everyone is buying in and hustling, I’m very happy. Even with Newhook and Matheson.

But better without Newhook. I can live with the last 10 games Mike Matheson as bottom 6.