Hagens vs Desnoyers vs Frondell

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Frondell did not impress in his first game last night at the World U18 Championship against a strong Idaho team made up mostly of muskets. FRONDELL did not show much speed or forechecking dominance. To be fair, he just played after getting off the plane from Sweden, so there's that—probably jet-lagged.

We’ll have to see if he plays better in the remaining games.

The USA had greater consistency and intensity, with a great forecheck. When players like Mooney, Kvasnicka (I probably misspelled that, but I’ll check it and correct it if I’m wrong. Editor's Note: No somehow this was spelled correctly), and the Mutryn brothers caused havoc against the Swedes with their intense, physical play, I think the Hawks could use some of this type of energy from players. They probably would only be 4th-line muckers, but their overwhelming energy played a big role as the game went on. Yes, the Swedes missed a bunch of grade-A scoring chances, and if they had beaten the USA goalie or not missed the net, maybe the score wouldn't have been as wide a margin for the U.S.

The thing about energy forecheckers is that they’re great in short tournaments and playoffs, but over the course of a full season or grind at the NHL level, it’s hard to maintain that level of intensity consistently to impact games the way they did.

The higher-rated stars, like Frondell, are supposed to be impactful, yet he failed to make an impact in the game or even impress. He left Sweden unable to keep up with the U.S. scoring against them.

So, I don’t know if this is a one-off game for him, but his first impression at such a big, important contest in this tournament left me cold on Frondell. I don’t see how the Hawks can consider him a big guy for them unless he rebounds with a much better performance than this.

Muskets is almost certainly midgets or minors.

 

[Mjul Qvist]

Frondell did not impress in his first game last night at the World U18 Championship against a strong Idaho team made up mostly of muskets. FRONDELL did not show much speed or forechecking dominance. To be fair, he just played after getting off the plane from Sweden, so there's that—probably jet-lagged.

Yes and no practice with the team. There is sometimes adjustment difficulties when you come from more structure environment like Frondell from Allsvenskan to play with juniors where there might be more speed but less thinking in the game. Frondell has had so good year with Djugarden that he is lock to be taken anywhere from 3-8.

 

[hawksfan50]

Frondelk=proviledged situation..played woth the top team in tge Alksvenskan...Sure agaibst men mostly in that league but Not the top division I Sweden.. Not agaivst SHL Men..

Also he pkayexdwith Eklundon his libe..tge guy who really "drove the kine"

And at u18s he stunk..Looked SLOW..Was handled by especicalky the Canadian dmen..did not physically dominate them..got stopped on zone entries easily.. I just dod not see a pkayer living on the otger hand no way anybody who saw Brady Martin donibatevo shifts. Create so many scoribg chances ..tilted the ice fro ferocious forechecks and hitting and took pucksxawY..anyone who saw that vs.what Frobdelkl showed would want to Draft Martin ahead of him..Or Desnoyers ahead of him.

To me the 2 best fits for the Hawks with good but not ekite soeed ate Martin and Drsnoyers..not Frondell..not Martone.

Kd says he prioritizes skating. Before you start I any other traits.
It woukd be agaibst his grain to draft slow...and slow "pace".

O'brien being the youngest to pisdibky bey onand has longest runway to improve ,could have highest celingbof alk IF he adds mass to his frame and more explosion.He has tinevto work on doing that this season inBtantford.

If KD takes Frondell or Martobe thinking they are most "pro ready" now then that speaks of pressure to improve the Hawks this season rather than a more wait and the rewards will cone better once otger cNdoates develop more with anotger year in juniors.
To me the act for immediate help is a major mistake .You shoukd be projecting down the line .

In any case Pronman is out to lunch onFrobdell..I just did not see "it" from him at u18s.

 

[hawksfan50]

Weelk this scouting repirt denigrated Desnoyers for shoiting and passing.. yet he says 84 poubtsvis goid forca 17 year old...And he implies the is inferior competition.. And Desnoyers has a lot of goid players around him on the top team i the Q..

Desnoywrs did shoot 19.9% which is a bigh number .. I guess this scout doing this report on video woukd prefer him to shoot at 21.8% like Misa which is what..so much better?

Ok..if you criticize the league competition level,maybevthat counts.. but tge eye test says pretty goodcshhoter..
To me the key things on zdrsnoyers are defebsive and 2 way consistently...details...bei g I tge right spatial spaces...Defense leading to offensive transition 2 on1s ..he id goidbi tge dot though maybevused only for string side draws?

Was overcome % o draws I bekieve for the season...but took far less draws than Misa who was at 51%..

Desnoyers generated 3.14 shots/GP...far less than Misa's 4.39 and a bit less than Martobe's 3.33..but he bested Martine by a bit on effuciency (19.9% to19.47% for Martoe..

So this guy is out to lunch on Desnoyers shooting g criticism..an opinion not backed up by stats unless again you want to downplay the Q competition level and goalies.

But it is hogwash..I have seen terrible goaltending g esoecicalky in the WHL and great goaktendibgvfro sone Q goalies.


OK he criticizes Drsnoyers passing ..But it iscnit terrible. HAD 49 ASSISTS ...Of course notthe heights of Mosa (72a in 9more games than Drsnoyers ) or NNrtone's61a in1 more game than Desnoyers) or The 66 a O'brien put up in 10 more GP than Desnoyers...but on the other hand who wss as gooddefensively ...with a Net 5x5 differential than the +54 Desnoyers put up ..and that was a 5x5 differential positive 9 better than Misa finished at I 9 more GP than Drsnoyer (Of course you get Misa goinh-6 in hisvlast 6 regukar sesson games and gpi g another -10 in 4 playoff games.


And so I have to say Desnoyers is better thanMisa defensively.. that has to count too.


I just think even if Dsnoyers is not 1C "Al"evel offensively ...then he hes 2C ""A level who still can because of good 2 way pkay be a 1C "B" level guy LIKE Toews was...we win 3 Cups with that whether you calked Toews an 1C "B" level or a 2C"A" level= around 68-75 loi ts type offense producer with 28-35 goal range. DESNOYERS ISnot hoi g to be your 90-100points ekite 1C with 40+ goals offebse.

But if he gives you High 5x5 plus stats..youtake that=wins...hevus a winner!!!

So yes ..not Musa..but consistent reliable and effective 2 way pkayer with a physical edge .You take that ..any day .

But ische the best choice over Brady Martin who you have to adjust the statscoroduction up duecto how pir a tean he was on inthe Soo.

I think hevIs the highestst motor .hardest worker..most physical hitter I tge draft...relentless forechecker..I saw goid soeed..not Misa but plenty fast to get around and he can goboth through checks or around checks still in control of the puck...

Despite kittkevhelp ona bad Soo team, he still generated more shots per gamevthan Martobevor Drsnoyers ...2nd only to Misa ..butctenember Misa and Saginaw generated so many Pp opportunities it inflated Misa's shotvtotals ..Martin i co tract got a lot fewer Poipprtunuties generated by the Soo.

Marin' 3 5 43 shotsvper game thus stand out to me as a huge achievement i the circumstances.
Yet he also was less efficient..only 16 336% ..but co sider he had to work solo more due to less help to geberate shot opportunities..So less eager shot stances.

In any case I lime both Drsnoyers and Martin over Martine and certainly Not the shrimp Hages or the slow and non-dynanic Frobdell.

 

[Sinbad]

Desnoyers > O’Brien > Martone > Frondell > Martin > Hagens

 

[hawksfan50]

P'brien may turn out to be better than all of them but hevis behind tgevde elopement curve being the longer runway given his layer birth date And secondary line 2 Cebter role ..If he pjayrf kibe 1 woth Lardis obviously would get eve more assists on5hec5x5...hecstill gotb98 ponys same as Martone though ten more games..nut Martine was a top line winger for his team. And O"broen only pkaued most shifts 7x5 znot 2 other 1s of hiscteM..

You have got to factor in extrapoi ts for hom if he did...but heviscLso 8 months Younger than Martine and needs that tine to fill out his frame like Martone already has.Ehike not a great skater he has improved thiscsesdon to be faster than Martone who may have pjayeurd in skating speed.. whokevsonr scoutsctjink O"broem can add more power and speed to his skating.so I think O'broen hsd mire upside yet to come.. heveotld more o

He is not in sane class defensivelyvas is Drsnoyets or Brady Martin as a Cenydr..theyvate more advanced
. HIS READS havecto improve and his speed still must improve more to better help in defending and on rish attacks..but he already is considered the best psser I thrvdraft..so the big question is as hecssdumrsca more go to 2C 5x5 roke this co.ing srsdon will hos goal scoring and assists 6x5 go up?

If yes then as O said he may have the best projected upside of anyone ..
Maybe even Misa from this draft.He is as ee say still a bit raw but with at least 2 skill best in the class...A ways to go but posdible he achieves greatness.

 

[JaegerDice]

Hagens, though I'm not certain SJS takes Misa. I'm not sure NHL teams view him as highly as Chicago Blackhawks fans seem to...

I think most teams view this draft as a clear number 1, then a mushy middle till 7.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

think I'm team Hagens at this point, he fits the identity of what they're building up front, send him back to BC or have him turn pro and give him the Levshunov treatment

 

[hawksfan50]

More media recently scuttlebutt the rise of Brady Martin..

Just read an article where it talks of hom "co ing I hot" just having torched the U18s and impressing si many eyes.
Th article quotes a scout (does not say if he was an NHL team scou or a scout from a ranking organization)who said tgat years from now they will look back and realize that this guy could be the best NHL pro to come of this draft ...thatvhevus ultra-competitive ,a leader ,put up good numbers despite not being on a very goidcteam inthecSoo this season...but even More informing..because we knew all of that anyway.. was that this scout said Martin was just scratching the surface of huscupside because he never attended skating and conditioning and strength camps YET ...indicating the kidccoukd get a lot better to come ..Tgisxsurprised me because most high profile juniorcstars have gone to such camps already. And work with their agents to get extraxdevejipmebtcspeciakize coaching at such camps from tinecwekk before their draft year..That hecapoarently has not yet gotten such specialized training is shocking.. butv his scout is implying that if this kid did what he did and shows what he has shown and improved over the eason anyway to finish with as well asvhecdos,how mich better can ge be with special training ?

He already loked fastcenough and strong enough to me atvu18s ..but if he gets even stronger and faster.? HE AKREADY outworjs and out hits everybody and ge hitscHard..

By far this late but continuing Riser is now a legitvtop 5 candidate to sobecscouts. THAT to me also puts him Top 3 possibke e if Hawks brass Are thinking like this scout does.

No way Hawks can dismss how dominating and intimidating to the opposition he was at u18s. THE fact he showed up Big in Big games. 2g 1a in the Gold Medal Game atu18s ...2g1a at the OHL Top Prospexts Challenge Game and always out-works out-hustles and andvout-hits every one else on the ice,and has show continued improvement over the course of this, tge captain and best pkayer on a not very goid team in the Soo,who i theirvroght minds does not want to add this guy to lift and inspire and Lead by example for their teams it tries to improve its own level of compete ?

I just honk I am not alone.. Martin IS Rising on many teams lists now ..this is the kid you want to war with ...You want sobe who can help you 209 fet all over the ice,score,but above al bea catalyst to inspure al to play the very best they have Every shift..without any coasting or slack offbo or moping ..do the job.. and he does!

I think he is unique in this draft ...the tangible and the intangibles ...I think a lot of scouts are nowcre-thibkong how hoid he can become..playing with better talent but I any case what he by himself can do and will do to get to even higher impact and performance.

I am just so impressed by the story ,thecsituation,and how he responded to pushbhinself up and up the rankibgs at the end scouts have cone around to realize what a gem he could be for their team.

Hawjs need to consider him in the mix at #3 now.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Cah-leb Day-noy-ay all day

 

[Drumman44]

More media recently scuttlebutt the rise of Brady Martin..

Reminds me of the Kotkaniemi year. You were on him early and then he rose through the ranks until Montreal took him way way too high

 

[Darkstar]

I'm a fan of Martin, but #3 is too high to pick him.

 

[Kevin Musto]

I'm a fan of Martin, but #3 is too high to pick him.

I'm reminded of Hayton

 

[Toews2Bickell]

I'm reminded of Hayton

was that the year they took Boqvist?

 

[Kevin Musto]

was that the year they took Boqvist?

yup, the year we were one pick away from drafting Quinn Hughes

 

[Toews2Bickell]

yup, the year we were one pick away from drafting Quinn Hughes

when Kane was captain of the USA WC team and sat right next to Quinn in the locker room, you know he would've been a Hawk if he made it to 8

 

[Hull2Roenick2Kane]

when Kane was captain of the USA WC team and sat right next to Quinn in the locker room, you know he would've been a Hawk if he made it to 8

I had almost forgotten about the 3 defensemen taken around Boqvist. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[Muffinalt]

when Kane was captain of the USA WC team and sat right next to Quinn in the locker room, you know he would've been a Hawk if he made it to 8

That's a big what if to me honeslty. We could've gone a different direction just because of him, he was good enough and fast enough for Kane et all to be still great.

 

[Mjul Qvist]

That's a big what if to me honeslty. We could've gone a different direction just because of him, he was good enough and fast enough for Kane et all to be still great.

Good reminder how hard is to predict how good these draft eligible players eventually become in NHL . Quinn Hughes is now the best player from that draft. I can´t remember that he was considered in any rankings top 5 pick? Filip Zadina was and that didn´t turn out well.

I can´t say who would be best pick for Hawks out of those three because they have different kind of qualities but if I had to choose gun on my head I would go with Hagens. Just because of his offensive upside.

 

[pvr]

Hagens is just so (relatively) tiny. He might turn out to be a center, but even Hughes with his superior skating, still gets injured because of his size, which is similar to Hagens. Heavy playoff hockey might not be kind to him.

I’m in for Desnoyers. True centerman, and regardless of the Musto proclamations, he looks to have 2C written all over him, and if he fills out and progresses, has a chance at 1C. He doesn’t have to be a 90+ pt player to be valuable as a 1C. I can imagine his two way play being a great fit for Bedard on the wing, along with another offensive winger.

 

[Nazzz]

I think choosing between Desnoyers or Hagens is like choosing between Hischier or Bratt (ceiling). I don't see them as stars, each has their own preferences, but I'd be very happy with either of them.

 

[SavBigMoneyAtBedards]

At #3?

Martone/Hagens

I'm fine with either.
If you're not taking one of those two just trade down and get something additional.

 

[kmwtrucks]

At #3?

Martone/Hagens

I'm fine with either.
If you're not taking one of those two just trade down and get something additional.

the generally feeling is 3-6 is interchangeable unless somehow MISA slides to 3 so you really cannot trade down. you trade down to Nashville what if UTah takes who you want? also what is the incentive for NASH? they are getting there pick of 2 of the 4.

 

[scorehawks]

Misa, Martone and now Frondell. Playoff hockey demands size.

 

[hawksfan50]

Desnoyers not very goidclsst noght...While Moncton team leading seriesx ...Tgeycwrrexdown 3-0in fotst 4 mlnutes of first period..3-0 faijed to showvup and close out lsst night

Desnoyersxwas -2...One for 1st goal agaibst which wss to me directly hos fUkt(unusuL for him..was lazy on mot jostling to check Rimouski player goibgvafter a loose puck on the backboard to tge right side of the Monctongoalie (ie. The defending right side ..as the cebterman the job is to hutlevto check that guy into the boards or to back-cjeck fron behind on him as he tries coning aroubd back of the net and outcthe other side ...Drsnoyers instead of foubgrge job was slow and lazy =country club watching and not hitting to checknor back-check from behind. So this was not the usual habits he normally displays defensively.. but the entire Moncton team was unfocused and minds elsewhere this game..=no show performance.
SO with Desnoyers watching instead of checking, the Rimouski player swings around back of the net...out thevother side..dish to rhe skit and Rinouski scores.

Definitely caused by Denoyers not doing the job
...
On tge third Ronouski goal hexwas on and GIn watched as pkay developed ona 3 on2 Rimouski transition rush...Deznoyers had gone in deep to forecheck but Rimouski got to loose puck first and transitioned.. caching Desnoyers deep in the Rimouski zone..wgike he didctryvgettibg back he was too far behind the play but I do not blame hom...hisxwobgerscwrexaksovnowhwrecon tgat 3 on 2 transition...maybexthey went off on a line change or simply stood still and watched. But it ended quickly off that transition rush with a shot and a goal.

But..Drsnoysrsxwitv the -2firvtge night didn't do mich offensively to mitigate.. Itchuatcwas not a good performance from him nor from his entire team..
I do ubderstand tgevosychoko gy..stranglehold up 3 games to 0 I the vestvifc7 ...tendency to relax...dMpen focus and urgency.. getxskooyc...lowrxtye compete.. still you have a chance to put the hammer onthe opps..when you slack I thatcsifuaruon ibstead ot could make a really bad lasting impression that maybe he realky is not #3worthy.

If hechad shown leadership p ...tdyingvto drag his team to wake up and re-takectgecgame Fter that horrible lazy effort on the first Romouskivgoal ,that would have excusex 1 bad shift by hom..but he was not goidcorxsignoficant rest of the hamexafter that first early goal Gaibst...

So maybe I have doubts creeping in on ho m and this leaves me to focus the light morevon Brady Martin who elevated to be everything you could want with a dinibNt 2g1a God Medal Game plus hisusuak uber physical force leaving such a positive eye test impression in his final vowing by scouts this season..

Misa/bad final 10GP this season =-16

FRONDELL = FLOWERPOTO atvu-18s...looked slow..did not doninate..easily habled by CNada's dmen..Left poor last impression in his fibal viewing.
Drsnoyerszwas looking goidvinpkayoffs..but then that stinker no show last night?

Meanwhile last impression viewing of Brady Martin was terrific.

Don't you just a hunch this kid is going to o be a greT pro i the NJK and as to pjayoff type.. who else i this drFt could be better=Nobody I have seen from this draft class.. perfect pkayoff type .You know hecwilk even elevate when alk on the kibe and akwayscguve 100% work and effort and physicality abd showcuo for big goals when it counts most .

My hunch says draft Brady Martin..

Just army target last draft was Stian Solberg..evebvtjough Hawks needed forwards..Bu t still Solberg was anitger guyvlije Martin onkyvonD. Uber physical and conoetevlevel off tgecsharts..What did he do vs Nazarxand,USA last gane=a hat-trick ..and what a bomb of a shot he has!

I told you.

Boisvert better star..because Solberg will for years once he comes over..

Sonetinesx the eye test tells you everything and you just know...thisvis the guy I want on my team..