Proposal: Hagens Schaefer Misa NYI SJS CHI

[Rehabguy]

I'm sure many thought the same thing when they were drafting a defenseman 1st overall. I mean, how do you rise to the head of a draft class without doing so? But after Potvin, you got Greg Joly that the Caps GM called the next Bobby Orr. There are arguably 12 other instances since that where a defenseman was taken 1st overall and it isn't yielding the results that you think Schaefer is going to do because of Potvin doing it. It's being quite selective about what you actually decide to take into account and call risk.

Yes we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I agree though in most cases, all things being equal and you have a defender and there are many defenders in this current draft who are slated to go later rounds it is wise to choose a forward over a defender because their skills are readily discernible early in their careers. But to me, this is not a typical draft. Like the Makar's, Hedman's, and Doughty's before him Schaefer is demonstrating skills that separate him not only from the rest of defenders in his draft class but ALL the players regardless of position in his entire draft class so much so that all the scouts are placing him the undisputed consensus #1 pick for 2025. I simply think you are not grasping this important difference.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Yes we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I agree though in most cases, all things being equal and you have a defender and there are many defenders in this current draft who are slated to go later rounds it is wise to choose a forward over a defender because their skills are readily discernible early in their careers. But to me, this is not a typical draft. Like the Makar's, Hedman's, and Doughty's before him Schaefer is demonstrating skills that separate him not only from the rest of defenders in his draft class but ALL the players regardless of position in his entire draft class so much so that all the scouts are placing him the undisputed consensus #1 pick for 2025. I simply think you are not grasping this important difference.

And I'm saying that consensus thing was reached in many drafts before this one where it didn't pan out and you're choosing to ignore them.

 

[Rehabguy]

Not saying how good Schaefer will be but this draft sort of reminds me of 2014 where you had Ekblad as the consensus #1 and a but of good but not great guys(at least at the time) rated in the top 10. While Ekblad probably would rate 3 or 4th out of that group in the top 10 do you want to be the team that passes on Draisaitl.

Or in 2017 do you want to be that team that passed on Heiskanen at #3 and Makar at #4 for Nolan Patrick at #2?

Or in 2020 do want to be that picked Alexis Lafrenierre #1 and passed Jake Sanderson at #5?

 

[Rehabguy]

And I'm saying that consensus thing was reached in many drafts before this one where it didn't pan out and you're choosing to ignore them.

I'm not. The last time there was a consensus #1 defenseman as a draft pick that did not quite pan out was Erik Johnson in 2006 and he turned out to be a pretty solid defenseman regardless. Otherwise having a consensus #1 pick represented by a defenseman is pretty damned rare and if you are lucky to find one you are crazy not to choose him.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

Not saying how good Schaefer will be but this draft sort of reminds me of 2014 where you had Ekblad as the consensus #1 and a but of good but not great guys(at least at the time) rated in the top 10. While Ekblad probably would rate 3 or 4th out of that group in the top 10 do you want to be the team that passes on Draisaitl.

So are you saying Islanders should trade down to 3rd overall, not take the top projected D, not take the top projected C and draft the second highest projected C James Hagens at 3rd overall?

 

[Space umpire]

Chicago- Vlasic and 3rd overall

Islanders- 1st overall

LOL, a top pair D and 3oa. Holy overpay.

 

[Space umpire]

Scott Mayfield is all yours for future considerations. Pleasure doing business with you and enjoy.

He doesn’t make Chicagos top7

 

[Space umpire]

Kudos to the effort but prosperous. If the Islanders want Hagens at 3 it’s going to be Musty from San Jose and Moore or Nazar from Chicago. Engvall has 5 years left at 15 million. Duclair has 3 left at 10.5. Mayfield has 5 left at 17.5. Hardly anchors. Ty Dellandrea, this kid is worse than Oliver Wahlstrom. Seriously what are we doing here. It’s all for not anyway cause they are picking Schaeffer unless Grier offers something that hurts.

Is this humor? Chicago wouldn’t trade Nazar straight up for the #1 pick this year.
A guy who is showing he can be a top 6 C for a guy who you hope becomes one?
Which do you think has more value?

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

He doesn’t make Chicagos top7

Too late, he's on his way.

I hope you're a big fan of icings.

 

[miscs75]

Too late, he's on his way.

I hope you're a big fan of icings.

Atleast add in his other attribute of taking a lazy hooking/holding penalty then looking confused as to why it was called.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'm not. The last time there was a consensus #1 defenseman as a draft pick that did not quite pan out was Erik Johnson in 2006 and he turned out to be a pretty solid defenseman regardless. Otherwise having a consensus #1 pick represented by a defenseman is pretty damned rare and if you are lucky to find one you are crazy not to choose him

There's been three guys picked as such since then. Hardly enough to really hang your hat on when you decided to make the range encompass all the drafts since Potvin.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

LOL, a top pair D and 3oa. Holy overpay.

Most people I’ve heard talk about Schaffer seem to think he’s a tier above Makar in terms of upside. Idk I guess I look at it if I’m Colorado do I move Makar for let’s say Tkachuk(Matrone) and Vlasic. For me the answer is no.

 

[coooldude]

Most people I’ve heard talk about Schaffer seem to think he’s a tier above Makar in terms of upside. Idk I guess I look at it if I’m Colorado do I move Makar for let’s say Tkachuk(Matrone) and Vlasic. For me the answer is no.

Don't you mean a tier below Makar?

 

[doublechili]

Is this humor? Chicago wouldn’t trade Nazar straight up for the #1 pick this year.

 

[LinkGaetz23]

I'm not. The last time there was a consensus #1 defenseman as a draft pick that did not quite pan out was Erik Johnson in 2006 and he turned out to be a pretty solid defenseman regardless. Otherwise having a consensus #1 pick represented by a defenseman is pretty damned rare and if you are lucky to find one you are crazy not to choose him.

Since Johnson was picked 1OA, the following D have been picked 1OA:

2014: Ekblad, not a consensus #1 considering final NHL Central Scouting had him behind Bennett
2018: Dahlin, not only hasn't won a cup or Norris but hasn't made the playoffs
2021: Power, see Dahlin but much worse player

So 3 players, 2 of whom have never made the playoffs and the other wasn't even a consensus 1OA. Hell of an argument you've got there.

 

[Rehabguy]

Since Johnson was picked 1OA, the following D have been picked 1OA:

2014: Ekblad, not a consensus #1 considering final NHL Central Scouting had him behind Bennett
2018: Dahlin, not only hasn't won a cup or Norris but hasn't made the playoffs
2021: Power, see Dahlin but much worse player

So 3 players, 2 of whom have never made the playoffs and the other wasn't even a consensus 1OA. Hell of an argument you've got there.

I figured most people would realize the latter two are still babies. Elklad is defending his first Cup as we speak. Lol

 

[LinkGaetz23]

I figured most people would realize the latter two are still babies. Elklad is defending his first Cup as we speak. Lol

Ekblad doesn't fit your criteria because he wasn't consensus. Dahlin is a year younger than Makar. He's obviously a very good player but hasn't had enough impact for his team to make the playoffs. Nothing about what you are saying is based in any sort of reality.

 

[Patty Ice]

I figured most people would realize the latter two are still babies. Elklad is defending his first Cup as we speak. Lol

I think Dahlin is past the baby stage and while he is a spectacular player, his presence hasn't elevated the Sabres. Powers isn't trending to be anything special but I think he can reach Ekblad's level and be a contributor but not a key one.

 

[Rehabguy]

Ekblad doesn't fit your criteria because he wasn't consensus. Dahlin is a year younger than Makar. He's obviously a very good player but hasn't had enough impact for his team to make the playoffs. Nothing about what you are saying is based in any sort of reality.

Actually it is. If you can’t recognize that an elite 2 way defenseman is a strong indicator for success in winning the Cup I can’t help you. That’s the reality. Everyone who knows anything about hockey labels them as the foundation or cornerstone of a cup winning team. You build from the defense out. Read the article I posted above regarding the value of elite defenseman. I can’t see any situation where the Isles or any team for that matter would benefit from choosing Hagens or Misa over Schaefer unless they already had a defenseman of that caliber. All the examples I have given simply support this very basic notion.

 

[Fatass]

EDITED to add more value for NYI

FIRST TRADE

to San Jose Sharks
1st overall pick
PIERRE ENGVALL
edited in - ANTHONY DUCLAIR

to New York Islanders
2nd overall pick
TY DELLANDREA
edited in - 2025 DAL 1ST


SECOND TRADE

to Chicago Blackhawks
2nd overall pick
SCOTT MAYFIELD
edited in - 42nd overall pick

to New York Islanders
3rd overall pick
T.J. BRODIE
Nolan Allan
edited in - 34th overall pick


FINAL RESULT

SJS out =
2nd overall
2025 DAL 1st (29/30/31/32)
DELLANDREA

SJS in =
(#1) Schaefer
DUCLAIR
ENGVALL

San Jose agrees to take on Engvall in order to get Schaefer. Engvall is $3.0m cap hit for 5 years, and if you buy him out at any point, the buyout cap hit is $1.0m.

CHI out =
3rd overall
34th overall
BRODIE
Nolan Allan

CHI in =
(#2) Misa
42nd overall
MAYFIELD

Chicago agrees to take on Mayfield's 5 year contract, and also give Allan, in order to get Misa. Luckily, Mayfield is an upgrade on Brodie in terms of on-ice play. The player is fine honestly... it's the 5 year term and age combo Islanders want to move on from.

NYI out =
1st overall
42nd overall
MAYFIELD
DUCLAIR
ENGVALL

NYI in =
(#3) Hagens
2025 DAL 1st (29/30/31/32)
34th overall
Nolan Allan
DELLANDREA
BRODIE

Islanders get the guy they want, but they also manage to dump Engvall and move on from the 5 year long commitment to Mayfield. Brodie is terrible but it's only a 1 year contract. Allan is a decent add-on. Dellandrea is a low commitment reclaimation project worth trying out.

It’s a well thought out proposal, but its premise predisposes the Islanders prefer Hagens. When there is a talent like Schaefer (D man) in the draft, teams take them. The Islanders built their dynasty around Potvin.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

Don't you mean a tier below Makar?

Makar was drafted 4th not one. When comparing Makar to Schaffer in draft years Schaffer is clearly the better Dman with only Dman in recent history who may have been better at same age was Dahlin

 

[Fatass]

I think Dahlin is past the baby stage and while he is a spectacular player, his presence hasn't elevated the Sabres. Powers isn't trending to be anything special but I think he can reach Ekblad's level and be a contributor but not a key one.

Hockey smarts and speed of processing the play is always a big factor in whether a player meets his (draft position) predicted ceiling. Schaefer, if he process faster than Dahlin and Ekblad (two 1OAs who imo are a bit slow to process) will reach a higher level of impact on the game. Snd both those guys are excellent players,

 

[coooldude]

Makar was drafted 4th not one. When comparing Makar to Schaffer in draft years Schaffer is clearly the better Dman with only Dman in recent history who may have been better at same age was Dahlin

Yes but you're talking about Makar's upside, not what he was as a prospect. Makar is the best defenseman in the world. Schaefer may be more projectable at 17, but there is no world in which his potential is a tier above Makar.

Should he go 1OA? Yes. But as I said before, the weakness of the forward class is why it's so clear cut. Great defensemen like Makar in the past have been picked at 2-4 because forwards are a safer bet and 1Cs are very hard to acquire.

 

[Patty Ice]

Hockey smarts and speed of processing the play is always a big factor in whether a player meets his (draft position) predicted ceiling. Schaefer, if he process faster than Dahlin and Ekblad (two 1OAs who imo are a bit slow to process) will reach a higher level of impact on the game. Snd both those guys are excellent players,

I'm not arguing Schaefer's ability. I'm only pointing out the 3 players he is using as an example, 1 hasn't moved the needle despite his superb ability and the other two aren't key players (Ekblad is extremely steady).

 

[Fatass]

I'm not arguing Schaefer's ability. I'm only pointing out the 3 players he is using as an example, 1 hasn't moved the needle despite his superb ability and the other two aren't key players (Ekblad is extremely steady).

Understood. I see the islanders drafting Schaefer. They won their Cups anchored on the blue line by Potvin.