Proposal: Hagens Schaefer Misa NYI SJS CHI

[ColbyChaos]

And which one of them do you think will be bad lol. I only mentioned ones considered top prospects in the NHLs top farm system. I left out people like Havelid or Thrun.

A top farm system that isn’t at all revered for their defenseman lmao.

The majority of them truthfully will be bad honestly.

Thrun isn’t anything special and he is already 24.

Havelid hasn’t developed past the Allsvensken

Cagnoni doesn’t have the frame and is stuck being a midget temu version of Erik Gustafson if he hits his ceiling.

Wallenius doesn’t look to be anything more than a junior superstar while leaving a lot to be desired facing actual men.

That group isn’t at all close to being as good as you think especially with how unproven they are on top of it all

 

[Cas]

A top farm system that isn’t at all revered for their defenseman lmao.

The majority of them truthfully will be bad honestly.

Thrun isn’t anything special and he is already 24.

Havelid hasn’t developed past the Allsvensken

Cagnoni doesn’t have the frame and is stuck being a midget temu version of Erik Gustafson if he hits his ceiling.

Wallenius doesn’t look to be anything more than a junior superstar while leaving a lot to be desired facing actual men.

That group isn’t at all close to being as good as you think especially with how unproven they are on top of it all

If you have three good but not blue-chip prospects at the same position, you'll likely to be lucky to get one decent NHL regular.

 

[BillR10]

A top farm system that isn’t at all revered for their defenseman lmao.

The majority of them truthfully will be bad honestly.

Thrun isn’t anything special and he is already 24.

Havelid hasn’t developed past the Allsvensken

Cagnoni doesn’t have the frame and is stuck being a midget temu version of Erik Gustafson if he hits his ceiling.

Wallenius doesn’t look to be anything more than a junior superstar while leaving a lot to be desired facing actual men.

That group isn’t at all close to being as good as you think especially with how unproven they are on top of it all

You obviously know nothing about the sharks farm system as 4 of the top prospects in the system are dmen. You also graciously left out Dickinson who could be a top pair dman and Mukhamadullin who was looking really good in the NHL pre injury. Cagnoni also looked really good from the AHL to his spot in the NHL and with the 2 aforementioned players would slide in as a 3rd pair LHD and PP specialist fighting with players like Wallenius who does have potential. Is it perfect or something I'd avoid Schaefer for? No but there's no reason to pay a premium for Schaefer with depth in the system and a top lime center like Misa as the other top 2 prize. Also ask yourself is it harder to aquire a top line LHD in a trade or a top line Center? So why would the sharks pony up assets to go up 1 spot?

 

[Patty Ice]

There isn't enough of a gap to me that the Sharks need to offer up anything to move up a spot. Let the Islanders pick where we go to dinner.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'm happy with either so in a sense I could say that I'm happy we aren't in the Sophie's choice position. Grier doesn't have to overthink it...unless he takes Martone

Either prospect is a huge add to the Sharks rebuild. I’d do a good amount to secure Schaefer if the Isles are willing to move it for whatever reason. I just don’t think Darche will do anything but select Schaefer. Misa being a 1C caliber 2C behind Celebrini is a huge boost towards being competitive but flawed rather than just bad.

 

[ColbyChaos]

You obviously know nothing about the sharks farm system as 4 of the top prospects in the system are dmen. You also graciously left out Dickinson who could be a top pair dman and Mukhamadullin who was looking really good in the NHL pre injury. Cagnoni also looked really good from the AHL to his spot in the NHL and with the 2 aforementioned players would slide in as a 3rd pair LHD and PP specialist fighting with players like Wallenius who does have potential. Is it perfect or something I'd avoid Schaefer for? No but there's no reason to pay a premium for Schaefer with depth in the system and a top lime center like Misa as the other top 2 prize. Also ask yourself is it harder to aquire a top line LHD in a trade or a top line Center? So why would the sharks pony up assets to go up 1 spot?

Whatever helps you sleep at night but back in reality San Jose was never known for their great d prospects in their farm because outside of Dickinson it’s a whole lot of mediocre with more bust potential than top 4 potential.

Wasn’t too long ago Philly fans thought their defense was gonna be set with Provorov, Hagg, Ghostisbehere, and Myers only for none of those 4 to even become a top pairing d let alone a #1D and it stalled out an entire rebuild.

The only #1D to even be traded in recent history was EK65 and he was already broken down version of his old self (and still cost the Sharks Stuztle)

 

[Bizz]

Drafting and developing Defensemen is hard.

More at 11.

 

[coooldude]

I personally think it says more about Misa and the mediocre forward crop this year, than it does about Schaefer, that he's the clear 1OA. I agree with the poster who said that it's not 1C vs 1D we're talking about, but franchise C vs franchise D. Schaefer has the chance to be a franchise D, with real uncertainty. Misa has far less of a chance of becoming a franchise 1C, despite maybe less uncertainty due to his being a C vs. D.

Flipping the roles kind of gives you last year's draft. There were 6 defensemen people loved as potential top pair with outside shots at #1D. But none of them were ever going before Celebrini, because he had the look of a true franchise 1C and every one of the D men had enough warts (plus the normal uncertainty of projecting D) to cast doubt about their franchise potential. Make Celebrini a D and weaken his season, and then take every top D prospect from last year and make them just a little weaker and a forward, and you have this year.

Isles could go Misa, there could be a trade, more so than most years... Still 90% that they take Schaefer.

You obviously know nothing about the sharks farm system as 4 of the top prospects in the system are dmen. You also graciously left out Dickinson who could be a top pair dman and Mukhamadullin who was looking really good in the NHL pre injury. Cagnoni also looked really good from the AHL to his spot in the NHL and with the 2 aforementioned players would slide in as a 3rd pair LHD and PP specialist fighting with players like Wallenius who does have potential. Is it perfect or something I'd avoid Schaefer for? No but there's no reason to pay a premium for Schaefer with depth in the system and a top lime center like Misa as the other top 2 prize. Also ask yourself is it harder to aquire a top line LHD in a trade or a top line Center? So why would the sharks pony up assets to go up 1 spot?

As a fellow Sharks fan, totally disagree. If you believe Schaefer is a franchise D, you do everything you can to get him. Cags may not see 200 NHL games. LSW and Havelid may never see an NHL game. Dickinson looks great but still may never be a great top pair player.

Whatever helps you sleep at night but back in reality San Jose was never known for their great d prospects in their farm because outside of Dickinson it’s a whole lot of mediocre with more bust potential than top 4 potential.

Wasn’t too long ago Philly fans thought their defense was gonna be set with Provorov, Hagg, Ghostisbehere, and Myers only for none of those 4 to even become a top pairing d let alone a #1D and it stalled out an entire rebuild.

The only #1D to even be traded in recent history was EK65 and he was already broken down version of his old self (and still cost the Sharks Stuztle)

I agree with this but it's not really accurate to say it cost the Sharks Stutzle, at least not at the time. Nobody thought that pick would turn into 3OA after the sharks collapsed in 2020, and since then protected picks have become the standard. Very painful lesson for Doug Wilson and sharks fans.

 

[EbonyRaptor]

Yeah, I made the proposal with that in mind.

It's a Brodie and Mayfield swap. Brodie sucks and isn't cheap, BUT it's a 1 year deal. Mayfield's value is arguably zero-ish, maybe tiny value or tiny negative value.

Mayfield is a 3rd pairing guy who is decent as a #5 guy... but he's getting older and his contract doesn't end until 2030. Islanders here are basically giving Chicago the better player so that they can walk away in one year instead of five years. Due to how long the contract is and his age, Mayfield's trade value is likely to be way lower than it would be otherwise. It might be hard for Islanders (or Blackhawks) to find a way to move that contract.

Ah OK - that makes sense but not really from the Hawks perspective because they don't want or need a veteran over-30 d-man to clog up the lineup that should be used for young prospects. I wouldn't be surprised if they do a buyout for Brodie. Most Hawks fans hope to see Murphy go too - either this summer in a trade or at the TDL - they have a full cupboard of young d-men they need to play to get NHL games under their belts.

 

[ItWasJustified]

Not interested in dropping for Hagens though.

I'll remember your post when there's a picture of Matthew Schaefer wearing a Maple Leafs or a Sabres pajamas when it's time for him to become a UFA.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

Ah OK - that makes sense but not really from the Hawks perspective because they don't want or need a veteran over-30 d-man to clog up the lineup that should be used for young prospects. I wouldn't be surprised if they do a buyout for Brodie. Most Hawks fans hope to see Murphy go too - either this summer in a trade or at the TDL - they have a full cupboard of young d-men they need to play to get NHL games under their belts.

I know that the Hawks don't really want to have 5 years of Mayfield, but the point of it all is that you're either getting 8 or 9 years of Misa (or more if he stays into his UFA years) or 8 or 9 years of Desnoyers / Martone / Hagens / Frondell. If your GM and scouts truly think that Misa is just a whole level above those other guys, then you're going to be giving up something that you don't want to give up. Islanders have no reason to just give you Misa as a gift. Is being forced to take Mayfield a dealbreaker to get an amazing player? That's the question.

Regarding Connor Murphy... I'm very confident that if the Blackhawks did make this trade and added in Mayfield, the plan for the right side of the D core would be to play Murphy, whichever kid has a better camp out of Levshunov and Rinzel, and Mayfield as your three guys. Later, at the trade deadline (more likely) or offseason (less likely), Murphy is no longer a Blackhawk, and the right D becomes Levshunov + Rinzel + Mayfield. Then it stays that way for at least 3 seasons, maybe longer.

Regarding Blackhawks right handed D situation overall... I don't think the Hawks have any RHD prospects of note right now outside of Levshunov and Rinzel. Even if you draft one this year, that kid won't need waivers until 2030 (or 2029 if it's a late birthday). Between now and 2029 or 2030, Levshunov Rinzel Mayfield doesn't block anybody. So I don't think "clog up the blueline" is accurate, unless you're planning to move left handed kids over the right side. And hey, if something changes down the road and there's somehow a clog going on, there's always an option to buyout Mayfield in 2028 or 2029 if you can't find a way to trade him. It's overall a relatively manageable situation, albeit not an ideal one. If Misa is scoring 80+ points per year for you, I doubt you'll be regretting the trade.

Also, just to touch on the current crop of left handed D kids coming up for Chicago... this trade has Allen being moved out, which leaves Vlasic (obviously), Del Mastro, Korchinski and Kaiser all on the team by next summer. It's only 4 people, so nobody needs to go on waivers and nobody needs to be traded. If you think all 4 of them are too good to ever be the 7th guy sitting in the press box, then you trade one out. I've seen a lot of Chicago fans open-minded to moving Korchinski out, if they can get something valuable and young out of the trade. Either way, Chicago is going to have this same problem with or without adding Mayfield. In fact, the Mayfield trade removes Allen from the equation, which solves half of the problem right there. 4 left D to sort out instead of 5.

 

[BillR10]

Whatever helps you sleep at night but back in reality San Jose was never known for their great d prospects in their farm because outside of Dickinson it’s a whole lot of mediocre with more bust potential than top 4 potential.

Wasn’t too long ago Philly fans thought their defense was gonna be set with Provorov, Hagg, Ghostisbehere, and Myers only for none of those 4 to even become a top pairing d let alone a #1D and it stalled out an entire rebuild.

The only #1D to even be traded in recent history was EK65 and he was already broken down version of his old self (and still cost the Sharks Stuztle)

Once again do some research before yapping. All 4 players I mentioned are in the top farm systems top 10 prospects. I'm sleeping beautifully and will be sleeping even better if the sharks land Misa. Having 2 top line centers for a long long time would be amazing. As for Stuztle, perfectly fine with that as we may never have gotten MG as a GM to get the restart going and land players like Celebrini, Smith, Dickinson, Halttunen, Igor, Musty and this pick. Sharks future is a lot brighter due to that Wilson mistake.

 

[Rehabguy]

One of the reasons why I'm so excited as a long time Islander fan about this years draft is the fact that they have the chance to acquire a player in Schaefer who can become the cornerstone of our franchise for years to come. Having an elite defenseman as the cornerstone of your team cannot be emphasized enough and that's why I disagree with the poster who commented that it is better to take a #1C over a #1D if we were speaking of franchise players.

It was actually Islanders who proved that an elite defenseman IS the cornerstone of a Stanley Cup Champion team. Denis Potvin was the first defenseman in the history of the game to be taken first overall in the NHL and after 4 straight Cups most teams recognized and followed Bill Torrey's philosophy of building a team from the defense out.

Many franchise centers have come and gone and never won the Cup. Think of the Sundin's, Alfredssons, Tavares, Matthews the great Maple Leaf and Senator teams in the past. They never won the Cup because they never had a true elite defenseman on their teams. Sens might argue Karlsson but he was drafted 15th, so maybe wasn't really considered elite come draft time.

In fact if you want to look at stats, there has never been an instance where a defender who was chosen high in the draft and later proved himself worthy of that position has not won the Cup. I would say the two predictors that pretty much guarantee a Stanley Cup are a high draft position ( top 6) and winning a Norris Trophy. There has not been a single instance in NHL history where a top 6 drafted defenseman who won the Norris Trophy did not win the Cup as well. Winning the Norris alone apparently is not a guarantee of winning the Cup but you had to be identified as elite from the get go. So basically it goes, if you are recognized at the start of your career as elite by being drafted at the top of the draft and later confirm your elite status by winning the Norris Trophy you are 100% guaranteed to win the Stanley Cup some time in your career.

Since Denis Potvin here are all the Norris Trophy winners and top 6 drafted defensemen from 2024 back to 1973. This is not the only way to win a Cup but it is statistically confirmed that a top 6 draft pick with Norris Trophy is correlated with a 100% chance of winning the Cup. Now again, correlation does not imply causation, but these are great predictors nonetheless.

Cale Makar drafted 4th 1 Stanley Cup
Victor Hedman drafted 2nd 2 Stanley Cups
Drew Doughty drafted 2nd 2 Stanley Cups
Scott Niedermayer drafted 3rd 4 Stanley Cups
Chris Pronger drafted 2nd 1 Stanley Cup
Paul Coffey drafted 6th 4 Cups
Denis Potvin drafted 1st 4 Cups

So if Schaefer proves himself worthy of the 1OA by winning a Norris and he's still with the Islanders. He's pretty much guaranteeing the Islanders a Cup because it apparently has never failed before.

My condolences Shark fans...

 

[BillR10]

I personally think it says more about Misa and the mediocre forward crop this year, than it does about Schaefer, that he's the clear 1OA. I agree with the poster who said that it's not 1C vs 1D we're talking about, but franchise C vs franchise D. Schaefer has the chance to be a franchise D, with real uncertainty. Misa has far less of a chance of becoming a franchise 1C, despite maybe less uncertainty due to his being a C vs. D.

Flipping the roles kind of gives you last year's draft. There were 6 defensemen people loved as potential top pair with outside shots at #1D. But none of them were ever going before Celebrini, because he had the look of a true franchise 1C and every one of the D men had enough warts (plus the normal uncertainty of projecting D) to cast doubt about their franchise potential. Make Celebrini a D and weaken his season, and then take every top D prospect from last year and make them just a little weaker and a forward, and you have this year.

Isles could go Misa, there could be a trade, more so than most years... Still 90% that they take Schaefer.

As a fellow Sharks fan, totally disagree. If you believe Schaefer is a franchise D, you do everything you can to get him. Cags may not see 200 NHL games. LSW and Havelid may never see an NHL game. Dickinson looks great but still may never be a great top pair player.

I agree with this but it's not really accurate to say it cost the Sharks Stutzle, at least not at the time. Nobody thought that pick would turn into 3OA after the sharks collapsed in 2020, and since then protected picks have become the standard. Very painful lesson for Doug Wilson and sharks fans.

Completely disagree with your statement. Dickinson and Mukhamadullin look to be both top 4 LHD. The other 2 will be fighting for 3rd pair but do have potential to grow to 2nd pair whether you want to believe it or not.

Schaefer I think will be a very good defensmen and I think he'll be the best dman in this draft but i dont think hes as much of a guaranteed franchise dmen as others do. If Levshenov was in this draft instead of last year he would be going #1 over both Schaefer and Misa. Schaefer getting hurt didn't help his cause to prove he is hands down a franchise changing dman and Misa on the other hand just had an amazing season at 17 proving his case as a 1C. There's nothing here that justifies the Sharks ponying up what it would take to move up 1 spot. The smart play is to sit back and take the the tier 1 talent that drops to us. Those later picks are better off being used to either stockpile more future talent or trade for talent that can help the team next year.

 

[coooldude]

Completely disagree with your statement. Dickinson and Mukhamadullin look to be both top 4 LHD. The other 2 will be fighting for 3rd pair but do have potential to grow to 2nd pair whether you want to believe it or not.

Schaefer I think will be a very good defensmen and I think he'll be the best dman in this draft but i dont think hes as much of a guaranteed franchise dmen as others do. If Levshenov was in this draft instead of last year he would be going #1 over both Schaefer and Misa. Schaefer getting hurt didn't help his cause to prove he is hands down a franchise changing dman and Misa on the other hand just had an amazing season at 17 proving his case as a 1C. There's nothing here that justifies the Sharks ponying up what it would take to move up 1 spot. The smart play is to sit back and take the the tier 1 talent that drops to us. Those later picks are better off being used to either stockpile more future talent or trade for talent that can help the team next year.

You are conveying very strong opinions that others disagree with. Lots of people in the public scouting arena don't see Misa as a bonafide 1C. Of course he could become one - I like him - but "proving his case" is too strong, or more people would be arguing for him at 1OA.

Not sure I agree at all with you on Levshunov, but agree to disagree there.

And "whether you want to believe it or not" if you put your prospect evaluation of the Sharks' top 4 D on a spectrum from "pessimistic" to "optimistic", you would be a strong optimist. You're allowed to be so, and you could be right... But in the market of public opinion, you should acknowledge that you're more bullish than even many other Sharks fans.

I myself am probably middle to shade pessimist about our D pipeline. Dick looks great and it's super exciting, but he's far from "proven" as an 18 year old who has played zero professional hockey minutes. Mukh looked amazing before his latest injury, but his ceiling is still a 2D for a franchise 1D or more likely a middle pair (but is he a middle pair on a cup winner? TBD). Cags' biggest question is whether he can translate AHL success to the big leagues given his diminutive size. If you can't acknowledge that there's risk there and that he's not a guaranteed roster player, you're not living in reality. And nothing more needs to be said about the swedes. They are very far from proving anything.

 

[BillR10]

One of the reasons why I'm so excited as a long time Islander fan about this years draft is the fact that they have the chance to acquire a player in Schaefer who can become the cornerstone of our franchise for years to come. Having an elite defenseman as the cornerstone of your team cannot be emphasized enough and that's why I disagree with the poster who commented that it is better to take a #1C over a #1D if we were speaking of franchise players.

It was actually Islanders who proved that an elite defenseman IS the cornerstone of a Stanley Cup Champion team. Denis Potvin was the first defenseman in the history of the game to be taken first overall in the NHL and after 4 straight Cups most teams recognized and followed Bill Torrey's philosophy of building a team from the defense out.

Many franchise centers have come and gone and never won the Cup. Think of the Sundin's, Alfredssons, Tavares, Matthews the great Maple Leaf and Senator teams in the past. They never won the Cup because they never had a true elite defenseman on their teams. Sens might argue Karlsson but he was drafted 15th, so maybe wasn't really considered elite come draft time.

In fact if you want to look at stats, there has never been an instance where a defender who was chosen high in the draft and later proved himself worthy of that position has not won the Cup. I would say the two predictors that pretty much guarantee a Stanley Cup are a high draft position ( top 6) and winning a Norris Trophy. There has not been a single instance in NHL history where a top 6 drafted defenseman who won the Norris Trophy did not win the Cup as well. Winning the Norris alone apparently is not a guarantee of winning the Cup but you had to be identified as elite from the get go. So basically it goes, if you are recognized at the start of your career as elite by being drafted at the top of the draft and later confirm your elite status by winning the Norris Trophy you are 100% guaranteed to win the Stanley Cup some time in your career.

Since Denis Potvin here are all the Norris Trophy winners and top 6 drafted defensemen from 2024 back to 1973. This is not the only way to win a Cup but it is statistically confirmed that a top 6 draft pick with Norris Trophy is correlated with a 100% chance of winning the Cup. Now again, correlation does not imply causation, but these are great predictors nonetheless.

Cale Makar drafted 4th 1 Stanley Cup
Victor Hedman drafted 2nd 2 Stanley Cups
Drew Doughty drafted 2nd 2 Stanley Cups
Scott Niedermayer drafted 3rd 4 Stanley Cups
Chris Pronger drafted 2nd 1 Stanley Cup
Paul Coffey drafted 6th 4 Cups
Denis Potvin drafted 1st 4 Cups

So if Schaefer proves himself worthy of the 1OA by winning a Norris and he's still with the Islanders. He's pretty much guaranteeing the Islanders a Cup because it apparently has never failed before.

My condolences Shark fans...

No need for condolences to sharks fans as we see a bright future coming. We're not the ones desperately trying to flip a 1oa for a future because our cupboards bare. Also that Stat you provided was worse than baseball. He's batting 324 when it's a 2-2 count after the 7th inning type ridiculous. A lot of top dmen never get a Norris and many Norris winners never get a Cup.

 

[Rehabguy]

No need for condolences to sharks fans as we see a bright future coming. We're not the ones desperately trying to flip a 1oa for a future because our cupboards bare. Also that Stat you provided was worse than baseball. He's batting 324 when it's a 2-2 count after the 7th inning type ridiculous. A lot of top dmen never get a Norris and many Norris winners never get a Cup.

I just kid with you guys. But no one can deny the impact an elite defenseman could have on a team.

 

[impaaaaaact]

I personally wouldnt move Chernyshov but I’m extremely high on him. I’d just take the Saginaw duo if that’s the ask. I’d move Musty and the Dallas 1st along with the 2OA if that’s what it took. Otherwise, I’m happy drafting Misa and rolling Celebrini-Misa down the middle for the next 10+ years

This is a tough one to turn down. I'd prefer Chernyshov and it could be the SJ 2nd or whatever but Musty + Misa + 1st is pretty good to move down one spot

 

[PatFoleyBarTab88]

Idk, I don't like the spot the Hawks are in. I would much prefer a scenario where we trade down and leave with Martin/Zonnon or Eklund/Lykovic, and add that proven top 6 forward using draft capital on an offer sheet or in a trade. Is there consensus that Misa will be able to drive play in the nhl soon or is the projection more of pure offensive skill?

Whatever can be said about Martone, Frondell, and Hagen's ceiling, I watch Eklund and Martin and I see guys that are gonna figure it out and somebody that I am comfortable drafting and having in my organization when it counts. Would feel a lot better with Peterka/Knies/whoever and Brady Martin than I would with Hagens or maybe even Misa.

 

[Patty Ice]

This is a tough one to turn down. I'd prefer Chernyshov and it could be the SJ 2nd or whatever but Musty + Misa + 1st is pretty good to move down one spot

No way should the Sharks even consider that.

 

[impaaaaaact]

No way should the Sharks even consider that.

just responding to an offer from another Sharks fan.

New Isles GM Darche just had his first press conference and said something along the lines of "if another team calls you have to listen, but I would need to be blown away to move the pick" FWIW

 

[Patty Ice]

just responding to an offer from another Sharks fan.

New Isles GM Darche just had his first press conference and said something along the lines of "if another team calls you have to listen, but I would need to be blown away to move the pick" FWIW

I know, I wasn't criticizing you or thought it was your proposal. I've been pretty vocal that the Sharks should stand pat. They have a need for Misa as much as Schaefer. A strong depth at center is just as important IMO and they really aren't in a position to add one of their best prospects along with a 1st to move up one spot.

 

[impaaaaaact]

I know, I wasn't criticizing you or thought it was your proposal. I've been pretty vocal that the Sharks should stand pat. They have a need for Misa as much as Schaefer. A strong depth at center is just as important IMO and they really aren't in a position to add one of their best prospects along with a 1st to move up one spot.

I agree, seems like too much to give up.

 

[TLEH]

D are just harder to predict and they tend to flourish later. Look at Power for example. Schaefer has a ton of things on the ice to like and I've never met him but seems like a good kid off the ice, I'm not saying don't take him 1, I just think taking someone else at 1 isn't THAT crazy.

 

[Grinner]

D are just harder to predict and they tend to flourish later. Look at Power for example. Schaefer has a ton of things on the ice to like and I've never met him but seems like a good kid off the ice, I'm not saying don't take him 1, I just think taking someone else at 1 isn't THAT crazy.

Or move off the pick.