Habs vs Wings

[Xspyrit]

You don't seem to know what YOUR point is. You must be confused between all the goal posts that you moved. The fact you can't even reformulate YOUR point speaks for itself.

I perfectly know what my point is and frankly it's not very complicated. I reformulated several times already. You're just not able to get it, which was a meme already 10 replies ago. I'm only keeping it up to see how long you're going to keep up lol

 

[Golden_Jet]

I perfectly know what my point is and frankly it's not very complicated. I reformulated several times already. You're just not able to get it, which was a meme already 10 replies ago. I'm only keeping it up to see how long you're going to keep up lol

Ya it been a meme for awhile now, I appreciate laughing at the takes though.

 

[NikolaTesla]

I perfectly know what my point is and frankly it's not very complicated. I reformulated several times already. You're just not able to get it, which was a meme already 10 replies ago. I'm only keeping it up to see how long you're going to keep up lol

Oh ok so your point really is "The habs should have been rebuilding since 2017 but they haven't but they started building up their assets before their actual rebuild began in 2021"? Okayyyyyyyyyyyy. You might know what your point is, but that doesnt mean it makes any sense.

 

[Xspyrit]

Oh ok so your point really is "The habs should have been rebuilding since 2017 but they haven't but they started building up their assets before their actual rebuild began in 2021"? Okayyyyyyyyyyyy. You might know what your point is, but that doesnt mean it makes any sense.

You're getting closer! And why would that not make sense? lol

Habs started their rebuild in 2021 when they fired Bergevin and Timmins. but most knew that before that, they were delaying an inevitable rebuild wanting to give Price and Weber "a last kick at the can" which kinda happened a few months earlier with a very nice playoffs run. From a pure results standpoint, looking at the (regular) seasons from 2017-18 to 2020-21, they were already "rebuild worthy". Some of the assets of the current Habs rebuild were acquired during the previous regime.

The Red Wings also delayed a little before finally pulling the plug as they were declining for 2-3 seasons already.

And it stops here. No need to make 66 ******** posts arguing about what is pretty much factual.

 

[NikolaTesla]

You're getting closer! And why would that not make sense? lol

Habs started their rebuild in 2021 when they fired Bergevin and Timmins. but most knew that before that, they were delaying an inevitable rebuild wanting to give Price and Weber "a last kick at the can" which kinda happened a few months earlier with a very nice playoffs run. From a pure results standpoint, looking at the (regular) seasons from 2017-18 to 2020-21, they were already "rebuild worthy". Some of the assets of the current Habs rebuild were acquired during the previous regime.

The Red Wings also delayed a little before finally pulling the plug as they were declining for 2-3 seasons already.

And it stops here. No need to make 66 ******** posts arguing about what is pretty much factual.

The bolded part is what irks me.

Let me put it clear :

A team that begins a rebuild usually was a bubble team at least 2-3 years prior the beginning of the rebuild.

So they are supposed to have drafted in the 10 to 20 range for 2-3 years prior to these rebuild.

Why are the habs "advantaged" compared to the other rebuilding teams in that regards? Did those other teams not draft anyone in the years before their rebuild began? As I said before, the assets that Montreal had prior to their rebuilds are Suzuki (12th overall), Caufield (15th) and Guhle (16h).

Did Detroit and Ottawa not draft in these ranges prior to their rebuilds? I didn't look it up. Maybe they traded all these assets to try and make the playoffs, but thats really on them.

Bergevin was bad, but at least he rarely screwed the future by trading his top picks.

 

[Pavels Dog]

The bolded part is what irks me.

Let me put it clear :

A team that begins a rebuild usually was a bubble team at least 2-3 years prior the beginning of the rebuild.

So they are supposed to have drafted in the 10 to 20 range for 2-3 years prior to these rebuild.

Why are the habs "advantaged" compared to the other rebuilding teams in that regards? Did those other teams not draft anyone in the years before their rebuild began? As I said before, the assets that Montreal had prior to their rebuilds are Suzuki (12th overall), Caufield (15th) and Guhle (16h).

Did Detroit and Ottawa not draft in these ranges prior to their rebuilds? I didn't look it up. Maybe they traded all these assets to try and make the playoffs, but thats really on them.

Prior to 2017 the last time Detroit drafted higher than 15 was 1991.

You’re deliberately leaving out Kotkaniemi (3rd overall) btw.

 

[NikolaTesla]

Prior to 2017 the last time Detroit drafted higher than 15 was 1991.

You’re deliberately leaving out Kotkaniemi (3rd overall) btw.

The habs lost kotkaniem to an offer sheet, and he busted anyway. It cannot explain why montreal is close to detroit in their rebuild.

 

[Golden_Jet]

You’re deliberately leaving out Kotkaniemi (3rd overall) btw.

Poster has said because player is gone and it was a bad pick, it doesn’t count

 

[Sasha Orlov]

It may sound crazy but if they could flip Demidov for a legitimate young 1D like a Dahlin, Seider, Sanderson, etc or even a Hughes or Werenski they should do it. They will be a better team in the long run. It’s far easier to find and sign guys to score goals than it is to find guys to be a good 1D.

One of the worst suggestions I’ve ever heard of I’m being honest

 

[Pavels Dog]

The habs lost kotkaniem to an offer sheet, and he busted anyway. It cannot explain why montreal is close to detroit in their rebuild.

You are so, so close to getting it.

 

[NikolaTesla]

Poster has said because player is gone and it was a bad pick, it doesn’t count

You realize the argument was why the habs' rebuild so close to the wings? Do you genius think that Kotkaniemi is the reason for that? How old are you? Your attitude reminds me of a teenager trying to be cool on the internet.

You are so, so close to getting it.

Getting what? You guys really are confused with the discussion at hand. I could tell you the reason why montreal is already close to the wings in their rebuild. But im letting you guys some time to figure it out.

 

[Golden_Jet]

How old are you? Your attitude reminds me of a teenager trying to be cool on the internet.

now there’s classic a pot meet kettle,

 

[NikolaTesla]

now there’s classic a pot meet kettle,

You can believe that, if that makes you can sleep better at night, kid.

 

[Golden_Jet]

You can believe if that makes you can sleep better at night, kid.

that’s what you get when you make childish posts dude. Act your age.

Btw I sleep fine, but if childish posts, make you sleep better at night , all the power.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

 

[NikolaTesla]

that’s what you get when you make childish posts dude. Act your age.

Btw I sleep fine, but if childish posts, make you sleep better at night , all the power.

Chidlish post? Are you for real. Look at you. Your last 10 posts consists of insults towards me.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Chidlish post? Are you for real. Look at you. Your last 10 posts consists of insults towards me.

Well then you shouldn’t have been the one starting it, if you don’t want them back.

Here is how it started, I said this

Poster has said because player is gone and it was a bad pick, it doesn’t count

You responded with

How old are you? Your attitude reminds me of a teenager trying to be cool on the internet.

Looks like it’s on you, so let us know when you want to go back to acting like an adult, and all will be good.

You’ve struggled through this thread following along, so it’s not surprising you were wrong about this as well.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Getting what? You guys really are confused with the discussion at hand. I could tell you the reason why montreal is already close to the wings in their rebuild. But im letting you guys some time to figure it out.

Habs seem to be around ~2 years behind in the process. Which lines up fairly well with Wings starting in 2019 and Habs starting in 2021. Neither of those "starting points" are exactly accurate, but maybe both fanbases can agree that's where both teams started the actual methodical and deliberate part of the rebuild.

 

[Xspyrit]

A team that begins a rebuild usually was a bubble team at least 2-3 years prior the beginning of the rebuild.

Yes, could be longer, could be shorter (Ottawa went in game 7 double OT against Pittsburgh in the 2017 playoffs and decided to rebuild somewhere in the Barbados in January 2018)

So they are supposed to have drafted in the 10 to 20 range for 2-3 years prior to these rebuild.

Yes, depending again. All situations/contexts are unique

Why are the habs "advantaged" compared to the other rebuilding teams in that regards? Did those other teams not draft anyone in the years before their rebuild began?

Advantaged? I said that?

And why are you ONLY talking about the draft? Ever heard of trade trees or asset management?

One of the biggest reasons I'd want to kick Pierre Dorion in the nuts (I mean, virtually lol) is because he inherited such an incredible wealth to start a rebuild with Karlsson, Stone, Zibanejad (turned into Brassard), Turris (turned into Duchene), Pageau, Dzingel, Chabot, etc etc all in their prime or before their prime. He should have done a lot better than he did... The Sens should be an Elite team already

As I said before, the assets that Montreal had prior to their rebuilds are Suzuki (12th overall), Caufield (15th) and Guhle (16h).

No, there was more than that, I listed them twice already.

Did Detroit and Ottawa not draft in these ranges prior to their rebuilds? I didn't look it up. Maybe they traded all these assets to try and make the playoffs, but thats really on them.

That's another subject to the side-subject

Bergevin was bad, but at least he rarely screwed the future by trading his top picks.

Bergevin was immensely better than Pierre Dorion as a GM no matter how you guys see Bergevin.

 

[Xspyrit]

The habs lost kotkaniem to an offer sheet, and he busted anyway. It cannot explain why montreal is close to detroit in their rebuild.

yeah but Kotkaniemi turned into Christian Dvorak! Another one I forgot listing.

One of the worst suggestions I’ve ever heard of I’m being honest

Yet, I would never trade Sanderson for Demidov and I doubt these other teams would trade their stud D-man like that.

Demidov is a great prospect but no chance he is worth anything close to Dahlin, Seider, Sanderson, Hughes or Werenski.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Yet, I would never trade Sanderson for Demidov and I doubt these other teams would trade their stud D-man like that.

Demidov is a great prospect but no chance he is worth anything close to Dahlin, Seider, Sanderson, Hughes or Werenski.

I wouldn’t trade Demidov for any of those players other than maybe Hughes so that’s fine

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Despite the current Hutson hype (which is warranted), I still like Detroit’s defensive pipeline (Seider/Edvinsson/ASP) better than Montreal’s (Hutson/Reinbacher/Guhle), and I think Detroit’s stronger at center and goalie too.

Habss are as good or better in nets with Dobes/Fowler/Volokhin.

 

[Borlag]

A point that many seem to be overlooking is that Detroit has been rebuilding defense first. On average it takes much longer for defensemen to be ready than it does for forwards, just like it generally takes even longer than that for goalies to be truly NHL ready. Montreal started with the forwards, which overall looks like a better bunch than ours. At the same time Montreal is kinda in a lull, waiting for their young defensemen to be ready, all the while Detroit is finally bringing forwards into the fold.

The fair comparison only really starts when both have their pieces "graduated". Before that it's all guesstimating. For all we know, Asp could bust out and never make it at NHL level, just like Demidov could do the same. Is it likely that they would? Of course not, but it's not impossible. Plenty of prospects considered highly have flopped.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

yeah but Kotkaniemi turned into Christian Dvorak! Another one I forgot listing.



Yet, I would never trade Sanderson for Demidov and I doubt these other teams would trade their stud D-man like that.

Demidov is a great prospect but no chance he is worth anything close to Dahlin, Seider, Sanderson, Hughes or Werenski.

Hard to compare a forward to defensemen but he wouldn't be traded for any of them