Habs vs Wings

[Egresch]

Danielson = Hage and Danielson >> Dach

How? Danielson is trending to 39 pts in AHL. That is less than Owen Beck, how is he supposed to be way better than Dach.

 

[FissionFire]

You do realize that Dobeš is the only one of them playing in NHL, right? How can he be a very big step down, isnt it in fact the opposite? He has very similar stats than Cossa in AHL and is just one year older.
In defense, MTL has Guhle, Xhekaj already established in the NHL plus Hutson showing elite offensive D skills. Add Reinbacher and that is a sollid base. I still prefer Seider- Edvinsson and pipeline of ASP, Wallinder, Buium.

That’s a bad argument to make saying a player in the NHL is better just because they are in the NHL. By that logic Albert Johansson is on the same level as Reinbacher because he’s already in the NHL. Kasper is the same level as Demidov. Etc etc. It’s an absurd argument to say a player is automatically on the same level as a blue chip prospect just because they are in the NHL sooner at an older age. Is Dobes the same tier or prospect as Fowler? Of course not, just like he’s clearly lesser than Cossa and Augustine in terms of prospect status and potential. Fact is if Dobes is the best out of the Fowler/Cossa/Augustine group then both teams will be in big trouble. Even if you ignore draft pedigree, the scouts pretty clearly view Dobes as a big step down from those 3.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

How? Danielson is trending to 39 pts in AHL. That is less than Owen Beck, how is he supposed to be way better than Dach.

The year is 2031. Kirby Dach is still a potential Top 6C who is being held back by injuries.

 

[SallyBalls]

It’s best to make trolling subtle so people actually engage with you.

Nothing subtle about the wings failure. Theres no need to dress it up.

Are you that bad evaluating the wings prospects or just being disengenious, or trolling, it’s one of the 3.
Both teams rebuilding about the same length of time.

SCF = rebuilding. I've heard it all.

That Bulch guy is supposedly better than Demigod. Give me a break.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Nothing subtle about the wings failure. Theres no need to dress it up.



SCF = rebuilding. I've heard it all.

That Bulch guy is supposedly better than Demigod. Give me a break.

They were 7 different comparisons not Just one lmao. Give me a break.
I guess you were just being disengenious, but that seems to be your schtik in this thread.

 

[NikolaTesla]

It doesn't work that way. A team that sucks for a few years and makes rebuilding moves can't just decide to say "oh, that wasn't a rebuild btw.". Montreal wouldn't be where they are today without those bad years around 2018-2020, whether you call it a rebuild or not is irrelevant; they were bad, they are helped by it now.

You very clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

"Montreal wouldn't be where they are today without those bad years around 2018-2020" Explain please. Which assets did they get from these years?

 

[Golden_Jet]

You very clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

"Montreal wouldn't be where they are today without those bad years around 2018-2020" Explain please. Which assets did they get from these years?

Could of had Brady Tkachuk, but passed on him, much appreciated.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Nothing subtle about the wings failure. Theres no need to dress it up.



SCF = rebuilding. I've heard it all.

That Bulch guy is supposedly better than Demigod. Give me a break.

Except I didn’t even say hes better. My post says Demidov is better. Again, if you’re going to troll, at least read, if it’s within your capabilities.

 

[NikolaTesla]

I'll revise this with a reverse homer take, since you did a MTL homer take.

Raymond >>> Caufield

I don't know how you value ">>>" but that seem delusionnal.

Or then Suzuki >>> Larkin
Slaf >>> Kasper
and Demidov >>>>> Buchelnikov

 

[RedHawkDown]

You very clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

"Montreal wouldn't be where they are today without those bad years around 2018-2020" Explain please. Which assets did they get from these years?

Is Cole Caufield not an asset? Is Guhle not an asset? 2018 was third overall.

I don't know how you value ">>>" but that seem delusionnal.

Or then Suzuki >>> Larkin
and Demidov >>>>> Buchelnikov

The difference is that Raymond has 9 more points than Caufield, Buchelnikov is actually outscoring Demidov, and Larkin has an identical career PPG to Suzuki.

 

[NikolaTesla]

Is Cole Caufield not an asset? Is Guhle not an asset? 2018 was third overall.


The difference is that Raymond has 9 more points than Caufield, Buchelnikov is actually outscoring Demidov, and Larkin has an identical career PPG to Suzuki.

Guys who were picked rank #15 and #16? Thanks for proving my point.

Buchelnikov was outscoring demidov... Until demidov started getting ice time. Their stats aren't even comparable. Demidov is absolutely dominating the khl and breaking all records as a rookie. Not even in the same stratosphere of prospects.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Guys who were picked rank #15 and #16? Thanks for proving my point.

Buchelnikov was outscoring demidov... Until demidov started getting ice time. Their stats aren't even comparable. Demidov is absolutely dominating the khl and breaking all records as a rookie. Not even in the same stratosphere of prospects.

One has 40 pts in 45 games and the other 40 in 47. But sure, their stats are not even comparable…

And to your other point - Detroit picked 15 last year. Does this mean our rebuild is over? If we are bad again next year, can we start from year 0 and say it’s the first year of the rebuild? Since picking 15th and 16th after picking 3rd overall apparently means you’re not rebuilding…

 

[Xspyrit]

Oh im the one off topic because YOU chose to deflect the topic to wether the habs should have started to rebuild sooner? The whole discussion was about the habs supposedly started their rebuilds sooner than they did. Sorry if i should have quoted the other guys instead of you. Im really not interested in the topic you brought because i already agree with it.

Deflect? lol someone made a comment, and I made a comment over his comment. The deflection only came from your tireless crusade about this.

If you wanted to argue about the real date of the rebuild start, then YES you should have quoted the other guy lol. I always knew when the Habs rebuild started.

But I do disagree with you saying they started to accumulate assets before their rebuild though. The only assets they "accumulated" are suzuki, caufield and guhle, whom they picked in the range 10-20, ranks that bubble teams typically picks at.

Yeah that you disagree or not, they did. I listed all those assets already. Opinions always lose the fight vs facts.

Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Evans, Struble come from Bergevin's era. Also prospects Joshua Roy, Logan Mailloux and Oliver Kapanen. Artturi Lehkonen got them Carrier and Michael Hage if I'm not mistaken. Petry and Poehling got them Matheson. Romanov got them Dach. However it took some very good moves from Hughes/Gorton for it to happen.

I just realized I didn't list everybody. Emil Heineman and Filip Mesar come from the Toffoli's trade. the 1st obtained in Ben Chiarot's trade was used to get Newhook, etc, etc.

Are bubble teams considered rebuilding teams?

I thought you finally understood!

 

[NikolaTesla]

One has 40 pts in 45 games and the other 40 in 47. But sure, their stats are not even comparable…

And to your other point - Detroit picked 15 last year. Does this mean our rebuild is over? If we are bad again next year, can we start from year 0 and say it’s the first year of the rebuild? Since picking 15th and 16th after picking 3rd overall apparently means you’re not rebuilding…

Demidov has a 1.5 ppg pace in games that he played over 14 mins. He is just starting to get his well deserved ice time. They tried to hardball him into signing a contract by giving him less than 5 mins of icetime in MANY, games. Many other games under 10 mins of icetime.

You guys picking 15th last year means you're now a bubble team. Pretty much exited the rebuild, proven by all the free agents they acquired in the summer.

Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Evans, Struble come from Bergevin's era. Also prospects Joshua Roy, Logan Mailloux and Oliver Kapanen. Artturi Lehkonen got them Carrier and Michael Hage if I'm not mistaken. Petry and Poehling got them Matheson. Romanov got them Dach. However it took some very good moves from Hughes/Gorton for it to happen.

None of these assets were acquired through rebuilding. How is it so damn hard to understand?

I know what you are by the way. The typical nordiques fan living in the past. I was a nordiques fan too. I just dont live in the past like you.

You know you're in a sad place when you live in montreal and choose to be a senators fan

 

[NikolaTesla]

I just realized I didn't list everybody. Emil Heineman and Filip Mesar come from the Toffoli's trade. the 1st obtained in Ben Chiarot's trade was used to get Newhook, etc, etc.

Yup all guys obtained after their actual rebuild started. Your point?

 

[NikolaTesla]

Deflect? lol someone made a comment, and I made a comment over his comment. The deflection only came from your tireless crusade about this.

Oh so you weren't the one who posted a 1000 words essay about how the habs should have started rebuilding in 2017? Who was it then? Who was on a crusade really?

 

[RedHawkDown]

Demidov has a 1.5 ppg pace in games that he played over 14 mins. He is just starting to get his well deserved ice time. They tried to hardball him into signing a contract by giving him less than 5 mins of icetime in MANY, games. Many other games under 10 mins of icetime.

You guys picking 15th last year means you're now a bubble team. Pretty much exited the rebuild, proven by all the free agents they acquired in the summer.


None of these assets were acquired through rebuilding. How is it so damn hard to understand?

I know what you are by the way. The typical nordiques fan living in the past. I was a nordiques fan too. I just dont live in the past like you.

You know you're in a sad place when you live in montreal and choose to be a senators fan

Ok, so if we shit the bed next year let’s say, it’s year 0 of the rebuild? Jsut want to be clear here.

 

[NikolaTesla]

Ok, so if we shit the bed next year let’s say, it’s year 0 of the rebuild? Jsut want to be clear here.

According to your logic, yes! LOL.

 

[RedHawkDown]

According to your logic, yes! LOL.

Ok great! As long as our definitions are equal then fair enough.

Montreal definitely has a bright future but I think I’ve said my piece, I just have some homer confidence in our guys. I think there’s one thing we can agree on though. Ottawa is the worst. 0 prospects other than Yakemchuk - what you see is essentially what you get.

 

[norrisnick]

How long a team has or hasn't been rebuilding is probably the most pointless discussion to be had here.

Core pieces already established.
Core pieces on the way
Assets that aren't particularly part of the plan but could be moved for pieces later.

That's all that matter moving forward.

 

[Lampedampe]

Terrible take lmao, just because a team has an awful year doesn't mean they were rebuilding. That's like saying the Predators were rebuilding this season.

2018 was a tire fire of a year in which management had no intention to "rebuild" in any capacity. From 2016-17 to now they finished: 7th, 28th, 14th, 24th, 18th, 32nd, 28th, 28th. There was very clearly a point where we were trying to retool/force a competitive team and a point where management finally committed to a rebuild.

Is it the word "rebuild", that's your problem?

The outcome is the same between being "tire fire" bad and rebuilding.

 

[Lampedampe]

According to your logic, yes! LOL.

Your logic aswell, right?

 

[Lampedampe]

Nothing subtle about the wings failure. Theres no need to dress it up.



SCF = rebuilding. I've heard it all.

That Bulch guy is supposedly better than Demigod. Give me a break.

Sir, you said 8 years of rebuilding.

This is patently false, anyone who tries to even suggest that the Red Wings have been rebuilding for 8 years is crazy.

First of all, Holland wasn't intending on being bad in 2017 so that year can not count as the year that the Wings started the rebuild. Also, by bringing in Kane and many other vets last year, Yzerman signaled the end of the rebuild.

Therefore we're only looking at a 6 year rebuild.

Am i doing this right?

 

[NikolaTesla]

Your logic aswell, right?

Not at all. A rebuilding team try to draft top 10 for 3-4 years in a row at least and to do that they liquidate multiple assets for draft picks. One bad year doesn't mean that a team rebuilding. Is it that hard to understand?

 

[NikolaTesla]

Ok great! As long as our definitions are equal then fair enough.

Montreal definitely has a bright future but I think I’ve said my piece, I just have some homer confidence in our guys. I think there’s one thing we can agree on though. Ottawa is the worst. 0 prospects other than Yakemchuk - what you see is essentially what you get.

I think the wings got really good since the coach change. Im pretty convinced that they'll make the playoffs.

I think habs gets close but misses it by a few points, especially with Guhle having a long term injury.