Habs vs Wings

[SallyBalls]

They're tied in points with Montreal 1 game in hand. How much money are you willing to put down on Montreal actually finishing ahead of Detroit this season?

It should also be noted how these things aren't linear. Heck, the Canadiens themselves are a great example of this, given they made a run to the SCF in the midst of their rebuild. Not every team declines and improves along an exact linear trajectory.


Pacioretty for Suzuki? They also traded Andrew Shaw for futures along with some other minor moves.

Midst of a rebuild? Our rebuild 2 years after the SCF. Detroit has been rebuilding since 17/18.

 

[Big Ed]

Raymond has yet to record 90. So calling him a 90 pt player in disingenuous.

Demidov will outproduce Raymond in the show.

If I'm not mistaken, Demidov has yet to record 1 point.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Midst of a rebuild? Our rebuild 2 years after the SCF. Detroit has been rebuilding since 17/18.

And Montreal drafting top 3 in 2018 and trading for Suzuki in 2019 definitely weren't rebuilding.

 

[Hostile Offer]

And Montreal drafting top 3 in 2018 and trading for Suzuki in 2019 definitely weren't rebuilding.

Rebuild takes more than adding one or two young players to your roster.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Rebuild takes more than adding one or two young players to your roster.

And 1 fluke playoff run doesn't mean the rebuild ended.

 

[Crunchy]

Raymond has yet to record 90. So calling him a 90 pt player in disingenuous.

Demidov will outproduce Raymond in the show.

Hopefully Demidov knows how to play D too because I'm not sure how many more defensive liabilities the Habs can afford. The game is not all about points. Personally, I'd be very concerned projecting Hutson as a building block D and paying him 8m+. We'll see MSL seems to have a way with player development, but I'm just not sure Hutson will be able to overcome 5'8" and then slow.

Right now MTL projects as an offensive paper tiger, you are putting a lot on Reinbacher to be that defensive stud.

 

[SallyBalls]

And 1 fluke playoff run doesn't mean the rebuild ended.

Never started before the the SCF.... Silly take.

 

[SallyBalls]

Hopefully Demidov knows how to play D too because I'm not sure how many more defensive liabilities the Habs can afford. The game is not all about points. Personally, I'd be very concerned projecting Hutson as a building block D and paying him 8m+. We'll see MSL seems to have a way with player development, but I'm just not sure Hutson will be able to overcome 5'8" and then slow.

Right now MTL projects as an offensive paper tiger, you are putting a lot on Reinbacher to be that defensive stud.

Looks like ive hit a nerve with the wings fanbase.

After 8 years of the failed yzerplan id be a little snarky myself. Shitting on Hutson? Clutching at straws. Hutson is a 90 pt Dman.

 

[SallyBalls]

The Habs should act as an inspiration on how to rebuild correctly. Take some notes.

Habbers have gone past the wings.

 

[Xspyrit]

Sorry but if you dont see the difference between a team who always tried to get into the playoffs during those years to a team not trying to make them, then you have a problem.

lol you're doubling down on this but for like the 10th time, so funny.

I NEVER said the opposite of what you just said. I know the Habs were trying to compete, I live here.

Oh and even if I think they were not purely rebuilding, there was still Bergevin's "PLAN QUINQUENNAL" hahaha

One team made the playoffs twice, the other zero times.

Only reason the Habs made the playoffs is due to the global Covid pandemic, you know that, right? In 2020, they finished 24th in the standings (there was still 31 teams)

You like statistics, check the average age of montreal vs ottawa during those years :

montreal :
2017-18 : 26.14
2018-19 : 26.59
2019-20 : 26.74
2020-21 : 27.67
The trend is going up : Not a sign of a rebuild going on. They were active on the free agent market. Tried actively to make the playoffs every single years, despite their lack of success. No asset liquidation during those years except for tradin Pacioretti, who asked to be traded.

ottawa :
2017-18 : 27.49
2018-19 : 26.11
2019-20 : 26.46
2020-21 : 25.48
The trend is going down : sign of a rebuild going on. When, in a 4 years timespan, the average age of a team goes down by 2 years despite everyone getting 4 years older, that means they have been liquidating assets.

Now if you look at their draft ranks :
montreal :
2017-18 : 3
2018-19 : 15
2019-20 : 16
2020-21 : 31

1/4 of the draft picks in the top 10.

ottawa :
2017-18 : 4
2018-19 : 19
2019-20 : 3
2020-21 : 10

3/4 of the draft picks in the top 10.

Ottawa had 3 times as many top 10 picks as montreal during those years.

lol WTF does the average AGE and DRAFT POSITION have to do in this conversation? I mean, how many times do you need to be told? You are OFF TOPIC

If your whole premise is to say that Montreal sucked all those years and that they should have started their rebuild in 2017 then no, I cannot disagree with this (although the cinderalla sc final run kindda disagrees with that). But that wholllllllle argument started with some posters claiming that montreal started their rebuild in 2017. If you attempted to deflect the discussion on another subject (that they SHOULD have been rebuilding), then jokes on you. Nobody cares when they should have been rebuilding.

ok but... what does other posters narrative have to do with what I am saying? Anyone who can read can understand that I don't necessarily have the exact same narrative/opinion...

And who are you to decide where a conversation can SHIFT or not? lol!

I'm not really sure what is going on here, it is INSANITY

 

[cvaicunas]

I’m ok with your analysis except the bolded.

Montreal has Hage having a great season in NCAA. Beck overperforming Danielson in the A. Joshua Roy who did good in the NHL last year and producing well in the A although still a tweener. Engstrom and Mailloux also having good season in the A and potential NHLer.

I think in general Montreal has more « potentially coming in » in the next 3 years (let’s say B+ prospects). Laval is a good AHL team with the 20/22 years old in key spots on the team and performing.

We can’t say the same with Gran Rapids, or well from an external point of view there’s not the same pipeline there. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Grand Rapids does have Cossa in net leading the charge, Buium coming into his own (I believe he is running the PP1 there. Danielson centering one of the top lines. Mazur and Lombardi being injured might make it appear as if there is less depth there. In fairness three of the Wings more intriguing prospects are in the SHL and KHL respectively in ASP, Bulchelnikov, and MBN. And of course there is also some solid prospects further out, Augustine is still developing well at MSU, and Max Plante is having a solid freshman? year as well. Finnie has surprised many, and continues to perform well in the WHL

 

[cvaicunas]

Raymond rely a lot on the pp to get his pts this year. At even strength, he's on pace to be worse than last year. For reference, he's at 24pts this year already. Suzuki and Caufield are at 15 and 11 respectively.

Admittedly the Wings as a whole were an abomination at 5v5 under Lalonde. The new systems have absolutely enhanced play there.

 

[Xspyrit]

Thats rich coming from habs fans who are notoriously known as the most delusional fanbase on this site lol

I have been praising the Habs rebuild since last year in the "around the NHL" thread on the Sens board (while blasting Dorion's work at the same time, because it can't be said enough how bad he was as a GM) and some posters didn't like it but this thread is a quick reminder as to why lol

Demidov looks good for sure but I think it’s a bit premature saying a guy on pace to put up 90pts in the NHL should be seen as a lesser player to someone who hasn’t played a single game. Demidov isn’t some generational can’t miss talent. If he becomes a 90pt player like Raymond that would be a big win.

Even if there was a "generational" label... as of now Raymond is still quite better than Bedard. People would still pick Bedard for multiple reasons but it's not as if becoming better than Raymond was going to be a walk in the park. I was high on Raymond at the draft and was really hoping the Sens would get away from the draft with both him and Stutzle. I love Sanderson but damn (and who knows what would have happened with Chychrun in Ottawa if there was no Sanderson on LD?)

Tkachuk - Stutzle - Raymond
Giroux- Norris - Batherson
Greig - Pinto - Perron

 

[cvaicunas]

Definely agree that Montreal started with way more assets than Detroit, and it kickstarted the rebuild as a result, although Detroit also had some years of mediocrity as 1st round fodder before rebuilding after they joined the east.

Different situations but hopefully both teams can get it going and eventually meet in the playoffs, I'd absolutely love to see that rivalry spark.

1st round drafting, unfortunately faltered during those critical years. I mean the Wings drafted Rasmussen over Suzuki

 

[norrisnick]

Looks like ive hit a nerve with the wings fanbase.

After 8 years of the failed yzerplan id be a little snarky myself. Shitting on Hutson? Clutching at straws. Hutson is a 90 pt Dman.

When you're flinging shit around the room, you're bound to hit someone and they won't like it.

The bolded is precious given your post a little earlier in this thread. You need to be a bit less obvious if you want your shtick to have lasting potential.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Looks like ive hit a nerve with the wings fanbase.

After 8 years of the failed yzerplan id be a little snarky myself. Shitting on Hutson? Clutching at straws. Hutson is a 90 pt Dman.

Taken from a thread about Werenski being a Norris finalist:

Definitely a finalist along with Makar and Hutson.

I think Hutson takes it though.

LMAO.

 

[norrisnick]

Done.

 

[SallyBalls]

Taken from a thread about Werenski being a Norris finalist:



LMAO.

Appreciate the time taken to follow my work...

This aint a thread about Norris Trophies rather why the Wings are failing to deliver. 8 years into a rebuild and they are not a playoff candidate.... Yzerplan? Yzerpain!

 

[SallyBalls]

Demidov hatty. "Lucas, just put my bags next to my Hart trophy"....

 

[Golden_Jet]

Appreciate the time taken to follow my work...

This aint a thread about Norris Trophies rather why the Wings are failing to deliver. 8 years into a rebuild and they are not a playoff candidate.... Yzerplan? Yzerpain!

Hmmm same amount of time as your team

 

[SallyBalls]

Hmmm same amount of time as your team

SCF.....

"Hey Lucas, you mind polishing my Conne Smythe" - Ivan Demidov 2026

 

[Golden_Jet]

Defensively xGA/60 with 300 minutes as a pair, in last place in the league at 72nd is Matheson/Hutson.
Edvinsson/Seider 14th

NHL Lines Advanced Stats

The Best Offensive and Defensive Lines in the NHL

moneypuck.com

xGF/60 with 300 minutes they are 6th
Edvinsson/ Seider are 53rd.
So habs pair not good in their own end, but good offensively.

 

[NikolaTesla]

Facts trumps feelings.

But what facts are we talking here? You don't seem to have any idea whats going on.

Defensively xGA/60 with 300 minutes as a pair, in last place in the league at 72nd is Matheson/Hutson.
Edvinsson/Seider 14th

NHL Lines Advanced Stats

The Best Offensive and Defensive Lines in the NHL

moneypuck.com

xGF/60 with 300 minutes they are 6th
Edvinsson/ Seider are 53rd.
So habs pair not good in their own end, but good offensively.

I think thats what everyone should expect from that pair.

And Montreal drafting top 3 in 2018 and trading for Suzuki in 2019 definitely weren't rebuilding.

No they weren't. Pacioretty asked for a trade. They didn't actively want to trade him.

You don't seem to understand the level of liquidation of assets a true rebuilding team does.

 

[NikolaTesla]

And 1 fluke playoff run doesn't mean the rebuild ended.

Of course it didn't end, it had not started to begin with.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Appreciate the time taken to follow my work...

This aint a thread about Norris Trophies rather why the Wings are failing to deliver. 8 years into a rebuild and they are not a playoff candidate.... Yzerplan? Yzerpain!

They are not a playoff candidate while being tied with the Habs in points...who are playoff candidates? Man this trolling is way too transparent.