Toggle sidebar

Habs vs Wings

  • Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it. Click Here for Updates

Which team is currently in better shape moving forward?

  • Total voters
    272
Pavels Dog said:
One game doesn’t dictate a rebuild. Montreal needs to do something about #48 on defense though, he was a liability all game.
Click to expand...
Yeah Hutson was absolutely manhandled last night by the forecheck for turnovers and goals against. Color me skeptical playing him for 20+ mpg is going to work out in the playoffs.
 
NikolaTesla said:
My point, which you can't seem to grasp, is that out of alllllllll these assets that you named and whom contributed to accelerate their rebuild, none of them are a top 10 picks. All of these assets comes from draft picks ranked in a range that a team trying to compete for a playoff spot every year gets.

If the habs sucked as much as the other rebuilding teams during these year (as you falsely claim), then certainly they would have obtained a few picks in the top 10? Not just one that they lost to an hostile offer, right?

So your premise, which seem to be that "Habs weren't rebuilding but they sucked so much that they gathered assets just like they were a rebuilding team" is just a load of crap.

It's really not that complicated. The more times I have to explain it to you and the silliest you look. I'll keep going because I'm sure people find it hilarious.
Click to expand...

1737852030693.png


ok be a homer all you want then lmao. Facts don't lie.
 
Yzerman is too much of a two way queen i was huge fan of picking Raymond and Pelikka, but overall his drafting has been pretty underwhelming, not a fan of signing washed out stars either. Habs are aiming for offensive upside with their drafting and it´s paying off. Like how the f are you not going for Hage when your C depth suck, wtf?!
 
Wings fan; I like Montreal's outlook somewhat better, and Demidov is the difference-maker for me.
 
NikolaTesla said:
What facts?
Click to expand...

I said I would repeat just once but changed my mind, here you go :

They did well (average) in 2018-19 but the outlook is this :

2017–18 : 28th in P% (4th worst team)
2018–19 : 14th in P%
2019–20 : 24th in P% (8th worst team)
2020–21 : 18th in P%

21st overall for these 4 seasons

For Ottawa, which was a rebuilding team :

2020-21 : 23rd in P%
2021-22 : 26th in P%
2022-23 : 21st in P%
2023-24 : 26th in P%

24th overall for these 4 seasons

So you understand that outside of that average season, it looks pretty similar to Ottawa during their rebuild and overall just 3 spots above in the standings with one team less (31 teams)

So the point people are making. Habs have been a well below average team since 2017-18, that they delayed their needed rebuild to 2021 or not...

Oh and do you remember Bergevin's "plan quinquennal"? I do


My posts had nothing to do with "draft position" but yet, you coming back with this, absolutely hilarious.
 
Xspyrit said:
I said I would repeat just once but changed my mind, here you go :

They did well (average) in 2018-19 but the outlook is this :

2017–18 : 28th in P% (4th worst team)
2018–19 : 14th in P%
2019–20 : 24th in P% (8th worst team)
2020–21 : 18th in P%

21st overall for these 4 seasons

For Ottawa, which was a rebuilding team :

2020-21 : 23rd in P%
2021-22 : 26th in P%
2022-23 : 21st in P%
2023-24 : 26th in P%

24th overall for these 4 seasons

So you understand that outside of that average season, it looks pretty similar to Ottawa during their rebuild and overall just 3 spots above in the standings with one team less (31 teams)

So the point people are making. Habs have been a well below average team since 2017-18, that they delayed their needed rebuild to 2021 or not...

Oh and do you remember Bergevin's "plan quinquennal"? I do


My posts had nothing to do with "draft position" but yet, you coming back with this, absolutely hilarious.
Click to expand...
So you're telling that you cant see the difference between those records?
 
NikolaTesla said:
So you're telling that you cant see the difference between those records?
Click to expand...

The difference is absolutely negligible. During those 4 years, Montreal had 128 wins in 291 games (43.98 W%) and Ottawa had 132 wins in 302 games (43.71 W%)

There was another fact I brought :

This is the overall NHL ranking in P% from 2017-18 to 2023-24 :

32nd : Chicago Blackhawks
31st : Detroit Red Wings
30th : Ottawa Senators
29th : Anaheim Ducks
28th : Arizona Coyotes
27th : Buffalo Sabres
26th : Montréal Canadiens
25th : San Jose Sharks

26th overall in the last 7 seasons is the shit team the other poster was referring too.

Their playoffs run in 2021 was fantastic but outside of that, Montreal has been just as bad OVERALL as any other team since 2017-18, which was always the point (not the various draft positions or the average season in 2018-19)
 
  • Like
Reactions: RedHawkDown
Xspyrit said:
The difference is absolutely negligible. During those 4 years, Montreal had 128 wins in 291 games (43.98 W%) and Ottawa had 132 wins in 302 games (43.71 W%)

There was another fact I brought :

This is the overall NHL ranking in P% from 2017-18 to 2023-24 :

32nd : Chicago Blackhawks
31st : Detroit Red Wings
30th : Ottawa Senators
29th : Anaheim Ducks
28th : Arizona Coyotes
27th : Buffalo Sabres
26th : Montréal Canadiens
25th : San Jose Sharks

26th overall in the last 7 seasons is the shit team the other poster was referring too.

Their playoffs run in 2021 was fantastic but outside of that, Montreal has been just as bad OVERALL as any other team since 2017-18, which was always the point (not the various draft positions or the average season in 2018-19)
Click to expand...
The rebuild started in 2021-22. You can't rebuild picking 11th-16th. Rebuilding means a concerted effort towards bottoming out and finishing as low as possible, preferably bottom 5. Completely disingenuous to describe it otherwise, we know what a rebuild is. From 2017-18 to 20-21 the habs were 11th worst in pts%, they weren't even a bottom 10 team during that period nor did the team ever claim they were rebuilding. Humour me how a team not in the bottom 10 was rebuilding, that's laughable. During this same period you know who the bottom 2 teams are? Detroit and Ottawa. So according to you the 11th worse team is in the same situation as the 2 worst.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Golden_Jet
GettingYourMoms said:
Yzerman is too much of a two way queen i was huge fan of picking Raymond and Pelikka, but overall his drafting has been pretty underwhelming, not a fan of signing washed out stars either. Habs are aiming for offensive upside with their drafting and it´s paying off. Like how the f are you not going for Hage when your C depth suck, wtf?!
Click to expand...
We have a ton of center depth lol clueless post.
 
HabsMD97 said:
Rebuilding means a concerted effort towards bottoming out and finishing as low as possible, preferably bottom 5.
Click to expand...
There's no definition that says that.

In fact, what you're describing would more accurately be labeled "tanking".

HabsMD97 said:
Humour me how a team not in the bottom 10 was rebuilding, that's laughable.
Click to expand...
They drafted top 3 in 2018 and traded established NHL players for future assets. That's rebuilding.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RedHawkDown
HabsMD97 said:
The rebuild started in 2021-22. You can't rebuild picking 11th-16th. Rebuilding means a concerted effort towards bottoming out and finishing as low as possible, preferably bottom 5. Completely disingenuous to describe it otherwise, we know what a rebuild is. From 2017-18 to 20-21 the habs were 11th worst in pts%, they weren't even a bottom 10 team during that period nor did the team ever claim they were rebuilding. Humour me how a team not in the bottom 10 was rebuilding, that's laughable. During this same period you know who the bottom 2 teams are? Detroit and Ottawa. So according to you the 11th worse team is in the same situation as the 2 worst.
Click to expand...

The "argument" has been going on for a while and I'm just continuing because that other poster is basically a meme at this point so if you're too lazy to actually look at the whole conversation, why even bother trying to get in?

- It was never about draft positions

- I never said the rebuild didn't start in 2021

- I live 15 mins away from the Bell Center and I am perfectly informed of pretty much whatever happens with the Habs

- The facts you are bringing, I brought them up myself many moons ago but you're lacking the whole context.

All that said, you guys have to learn English for CS
 
Xspyrit said:
The difference is absolutely negligible. During those 4 years, Montreal had 128 wins in 291 games (43.98 W%) and Ottawa had 132 wins in 302 games (43.71 W%)

There was another fact I brought :

This is the overall NHL ranking in P% from 2017-18 to 2023-24 :

32nd : Chicago Blackhawks
31st : Detroit Red Wings
30th : Ottawa Senators
29th : Anaheim Ducks
28th : Arizona Coyotes
27th : Buffalo Sabres
26th : Montréal Canadiens
25th : San Jose Sharks

26th overall in the last 7 seasons is the shit team the other poster was referring too.

Their playoffs run in 2021 was fantastic but outside of that, Montreal has been just as bad OVERALL as any other team since 2017-18, which was always the point (not the various draft positions or the average season in 2018-19)
Click to expand...
Sorry but if you dont see the difference between a team who always tried to get into the playoffs during those years to a team not trying to make them, then you have a problem.

One team made the playoffs twice, the other zero times.

You like statistics, check the average age of montreal vs ottawa during those years :

montreal :
2017-18 : 26.14
2018-19 : 26.59
2019-20 : 26.74
2020-21 : 27.67
The trend is going up : Not a sign of a rebuild going on. They were active on the free agent market. Tried actively to make the playoffs every single years, despite their lack of success. No asset liquidation during those years except for tradin Pacioretti, who asked to be traded.

ottawa :
2017-18 : 27.49
2018-19 : 26.11
2019-20 : 26.46
2020-21 : 25.48
The trend is going down : sign of a rebuild going on. When, in a 4 years timespan, the average age of a team goes down by 2 years despite everyone getting 4 years older, that means they have been liquidating assets.

Now if you look at their draft ranks :
montreal :
2017-18 : 3
2018-19 : 15
2019-20 : 16
2020-21 : 31

1/4 of the draft picks in the top 10.

ottawa :
2017-18 : 4
2018-19 : 19
2019-20 : 3
2020-21 : 10

3/4 of the draft picks in the top 10.

Ottawa had 3 times as many top 10 picks as montreal during those years.

If your whole premise is to say that Montreal sucked all those years and that they should have started their rebuild in 2017 then no, I cannot disagree with this (although the cinderalla sc final run kindda disagrees with that). But that wholllllllle argument started with some posters claiming that montreal started their rebuild in 2017. If you attempted to deflect the discussion on another subject (that they SHOULD have been rebuilding), then jokes on you. Nobody cares when they should have been rebuilding.
Pavels Dog said:
There's no definition that says that.

In fact, what you're describing would more accurately be labeled "tanking".


They drafted top 3 in 2018 and traded established NHL players for future assets. That's rebuilding.
Click to expand...
Care to elaborate on this : "traded established NHL players for future assets". You don't seem to know what you're talking about.
 
Last edited:
  • Haha
Reactions: Xspyrit and Golden_Jet
Xspyrit said:
The "argument" has been going on for a while and I'm just continuing because that other poster is basically a meme at this point so if you're too lazy to actually look at the whole conversation, why even bother trying to get in?

- It was never about draft positions

- I never said the rebuild didn't start in 2021

- I live 15 mins away from the Bell Center and I am perfectly informed of pretty much whatever happens with the Habs

- The facts you are bringing, I brought them up myself many moons ago but you're lacking the whole context.

All that said, you guys have to learn English for CS
Click to expand...
You’ve owned the poster over and over with facts, it’s just a meme now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Xspyrit
SallyBalls said:
Habs have Demidov. Raymond should be carrying his bag to and from the rink.....

Some of the wings fanbase aint playing with a full deck.
Click to expand...
Demidov looks good for sure but I think it’s a bit premature saying a guy on pace to put up 90pts in the NHL should be seen as a lesser player to someone who hasn’t played a single game. Demidov isn’t some generational can’t miss talent. If he becomes a 90pt player like Raymond that would be a big win.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RedHawkDown
SallyBalls said:
Habs are 3 years behind in the rebuild and already have a better team than them. With a lot more to come.....
Click to expand...
They're tied in points with Montreal 1 game in hand. How much money are you willing to put down on Montreal actually finishing ahead of Detroit this season?

It should also be noted how these things aren't linear. Heck, the Canadiens themselves are a great example of this, given they made a run to the SCF in the midst of their rebuild. Not every team declines and improves along an exact linear trajectory.

NikolaTesla said:
Care to elaborate on this : "traded established NHL players for future assets". You don't seem to know what you're talking about.
Click to expand...
Pacioretty for Suzuki? They also traded Andrew Shaw for futures along with some other minor moves.
 
Last edited:
FissionFire said:
Demidov looks good for sure but I think it’s a bit premature saying a guy on pace to put up 90pts in the NHL should be seen as a lesser player to someone who hasn’t played a single game. Demidov isn’t some generational can’t miss talent. If he becomes a 90pt player like Raymond that would be a big win.
Click to expand...

Raymond has yet to record 90. So calling him a 90 pt player in disingenuous.

Demidov will outproduce Raymond in the show.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom