Habs Record Since Clearing House in 2012

[BLNY]

Stephane Waite's work with Price has more to do with where they are than anything else. IMO, our forwards would be more successful, and our power play hugely improved if Hartley and 'anyone but Lacroix' were behind the bench.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Seriously.

THese people are so ****ing enveloped by their Therrien hate that they cant see just how ridiculous the statements they're making sound.

Right, 'cause the standings...

 

[montreal]

We're still looking at a very small window of time.

As mentioned, we're looking post-2007. And it's tough to look at drafts after 2011ish, since those players would just be taking in their first pro season.

Meaning we're really looking at 2008-2011.

Of the top 2 round picks:

Kristo: never spent time in Hamilton
Leblanc: bust, but development spun off course pre-AHL
Tinordi: defenseman drafted as a longer-term project, more defensively inclined
Beaulieu: developing beautifully, in my view

So out of 4 draft picks that ought to be closing in on being in the NHL and being productive, 1 never spent time in Hamilton (not much, anyway); 1 bust that was already looking off-track pre-AHL; 1 success; and, 1 project that is developing as a project does: slowly.

I think it's tough to look at the lack of NHL production from these 4 draft years and look to the AHL coaching staff/development process as the reason why they haven't been scoring goals in the NHL.

...

If we expand beyond the top two rounds, and look at 3rd rounders: who would you have expected more from? Or that has stalled under the AHL development system? I can't point to any player and say: hey, that player was drafted with some offensive talent, and it's being squandered in the AHL.

As for 10 of the 15 callups being top 3 round selections: the list is as follows ... Bournival, Beaulieu, Tinordi, DLR, Andrighetto, Thomas, Leblanc, Nattinen (omitted the vets like Blunden).

Thomas was traded for an equally struggling/longer-shot prospect -- one that wasn't under Hamilton's development thumb.

I don't see anything alarming about any of the other individual cases, though. Beaulieu and DLR look good to me. Tinordi looks roughly on track with expectations. Bournival, I would've preferred he stay in the AHL. Nattinen, Leblanc just didn't seem like great picks. Andrighetto's young and just starting his pro-NA career (and progressing).

From that list, it's tough to have any takeaways that fault the AHL development staff, I'd say.

3 years at least seems like a long time to have such little to show for from our call ups when we have one of the top scouts in the NHL. The fact that all 3 first round picks have struggled with their development at least to me is cause for concern but it only matters what management thinks and does about the situation.

As for Leblanc, he seemed to be doing fine before the AHL since he was the USHL rookie of the year, followed that up by leading his team in scoring as a Freshman and then led his team in the Q in ppg while looking decent for Team Canada as he was moved around the lineup. Then he looked good as a rookie in Hamilton where he led the team in scoring before his call up, and at least to some he seemed to do ok in the NHL. The problems for him imo started in his 2nd year under a new coach in Hamilton.

Kristo was the 2nd best player in the NCAA in his Senior year, not sure I would call him;

equally struggling/longer-shot prospect

, keep hearing good things about him in the AHL this year and last.

As for who I expected more from, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Leblanc, since it's normal to expect more from 1st round picks. Thomas was a former 50 goal scorer so I did expect more then 1 point. It wouldn't be a big deal if this team wasn't so starved for goals as imo it sticks out more that we are getting so little production from our Hamilton call ups over the last 3 years outside of Gallagher and a hot month and a half for Bournival.

 

[Sorinth]

We can argue all we want about Therrien and "da system", but in the end, this management team and coaching staff has been getting results since they took over. Their record since 2012-2013 season is 121-62-20= 262 points. That is freaking impressive considering they had the 3rd worst record the year before.

In comparison, here are the records of some of the best teams in the league the last three season:

Anaheim: 130-52-21= 281 points
Chicago: 125-50-26= 276 points
Pittsburgh: 127-58-17= 271 points
St Louis: 126-61-15= 267 points
Boston: 118-57-27= 263 points
Montreal: 121-62-20= 262 points

Now I calculated quickly so there may be another team ahead of them, but I think this is pretty much it. Pretty damn impressive.

Without a doubt the Habs have been among the league's best point-wise over the past 3 years. Which is partly why people crap on Therrien and the system, despite being a top team we get consistently outplayed by other teams, even the average ones.

I would also point out in the 5 years before Bergevin & company took over when Markov was in the lineup we were 122-71-32 which is 101 points over 82 games. So not that big a difference. It seems much more likely that a healthy Markov turned this team around moreso than anything Bergevin or Therrien did.

 

[S Bah]

Without a doubt the Habs have been among the league's best point-wise over the past 3 years. Which is partly why people crap on Therrien and the system, despite being a top team we get consistently outplayed by other teams, even the average ones.

I would also point out in the 5 years before Bergevin & company took over when Markov was in the lineup we were 122-71-32 which is 101 points over 82 games. So not that big a difference. It seems much more likely that a healthy Markov turned this team around moreso than anything Bergevin or Therrien did.

It's a team game, do you realize that or are you just being facetious?

 

[dmanfish90]

Yeah. If only we had a coach that would have taken the team from the basement of the NHL to the top.

Oh wait...

So first off, the team that finished 28th in the NHL and 15th in the East was not actually that bad. We had the most man-games lost to injury, we had a ****storm that was the controversial Randy Cunneyworth hiring (which I feel so bad for him). So we were extremely fortunate to have a top 3 pick and be fortunate enough to have AG.

We played really well in 2013. We were top 10 in S/G and I believe SA/G as well (although i'm not too sure about this one, off hand). Then we fizzled out of the playoffs due to a lot of things (injuries, a hot opposing goalie, terrible coaching tactics in the playoffs, etc.)

Last year and this year, we've finished near the top. Coaching was not the primary reasons why we finished so high in the standings, it was mostly the play of our goalie and the defensive ability of our defensemen and two-way forwards.

Michel Therrien is not really helping this team win. He's kind of just there. Jacques Martin had a boring system as well, and had as much to do with us finishing near the middle of the pack as Therrien has us finishing near the top. The only difference is our team is a little older, a little bit better and our top guys (Price, Subban and Patches) are all either in their prime or reaching their prime playing years.

Nothing else more to say.

That'd be asking too much. Habs fans have the least amount of common sense possible.

The team is at the top of the entire league and people complain nonstop. Gets annoying and is why I've largely stopped posting.

Sometimes, I imagine the team dwelling into the basement once again just to give these people reasons to complain.

Like was posted earlier, I and many other fans are allowed to be critical of our organization, winning or losing. If you (and by you, I mean everyone) only criticize when we lose, that just shows how much of a Kool-Aid drinker a lot of our fans are.

 

[bsl]

We can argue all we want about Therrien and "da system", but in the end, this management team and coaching staff has been getting results since they took over. Their record since 2012-2013 season is 121-62-20= 262 points. That is freaking impressive considering they had the 3rd worst record the year before.

In comparison, here are the records of some of the best teams in the league the last three season:

Anaheim: 130-52-21= 281 points
Chicago: 125-50-26= 276 points
Pittsburgh: 127-58-17= 271 points
St Louis: 126-61-15= 267 points
Boston: 118-57-27= 263 points
Montreal: 121-62-20= 262 points

Now I calculated quickly so there may be another team ahead of them, but I think this is pretty much it. Pretty damn impressive.

This is one summer premature. Come back in October.

 

[bsl]

What clearing house? It's the same core that was already in place that's winning us games. It's only the role players that keep changing every year (and the hole in the Top 6 RW position)

-And the hole in the top 6 LW position.
-And the hole in the top 4 D position. (We will see if he signs Petry)
-And the Hole in the no 1C position (By not making MT move Chucky there this year, the 'transition' year.)

Sorry, not gaga over MB just yet. And points are on the players that were already here.

 

[bsl]

This. One of MB's best move was to bring that goalie coach.

Yes, kudos to him on that. Very good move. I also think the players like him, and he is well liked and respected around the league. He also seems not to panic. All that is good, but he needs to step up this summer and fix his offense. And he has to stop wasting roster spots on a contender with players like PAP.

 

[bsl]

The role players have been a big difference. Didn't he bring in Weise, Petry, Prust, DSP, etc. What has improved the most since the Gainey years is that are stars matured, Markov came back, and our 3rd and 4th lines are actually quite good now. In the Gainey years we had very little in the bottom two lines.

Our 3rd and 4th lines have been helping us win the last few games. Don't under estimate the role players.

Our 3rd and 4th lines have been craptastically bad at offense all year. They are terrible. WTF are you talking about? DSP is a perfect example.

 

[Analyzer*]

Apparently showing how the difference from the 2011-12 season and this one is basically a better Price...

But no, continue to say how great the change is...

 

[bsl]

Yeah, take Markov out of the equation and things are a lot different.

Bergevin and Therrien inherited a great situation and have not been able to on any level improve upon it.

Meanwhile, look at ****ing Tampa. An entire top six line just ****ing appears, like magic! Luck? Don't think so.

Maybe Habs need to look a little harder at their supposed brilliant organization, because I'm not seeing it when it comes to offense.

 

[bsl]

Doesnt help that Timmins has bombed three dratfs almost consecutively in 2006, 2008, and 2009. Bergevin would have had more to work with, trade wise. and I think this is where we were supposed to be rebuild wise.(even though he has an excellent draft record, you can't catch em all. plus we were trading draft picks left and right at that time). And dont forget Gainey's waste of precious assets. So while he's taking advantage of the previous regime, he is also paying for it now, in a way.

If three or four players from those drafts had panned out, they would be regulars or call ups, at least, by now.

We have very little players of interest to trade, plus our prospect pool is not "all that". You can't trade Desharnais for O'Reilly+...

With said, Bergevin has given horrible extensions to his personnel. Starting with Therrien, Desharnais, Emelin, plus the Subban fiasco. And we cant seem to find mainstay top 6 talent at all. On the other hand, he got Pacioretty to sign one hell of a deal and Gallagher.

I wouldnt have traded a 2nd round pick on Petry, personnally. You either go for it or you don't. Trading a 2nd round pick, after advocating the youth movement, while not getting the help they needed offensively to put us over the top, is disappointing, imo.

He tried, you say. He failed though.

Good post. Giving a second for Petry and not landing a scoring forward is a bit like merging onto the highway at low speed. Likely death. Half measures. Still, if Petry is re signed it will help. To re sign him, I think both DD and PAP have to go though, as I don't want to lose Emelin.

And you are right on the draft, but be careful here on saying that. It is a combo of trading too many seconds and one first back then, and Timmins being a bit crap in round 1 that is finally catching up. Scherbak and Tinordi are Timmin's chances to make good. Tampa's success is getting a little embarrassing.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

Good post. Giving a second for Petry and not landing a scoring forward is a bit like merging onto the highway at low speed. Likely death. Half measures. Still, if Petry is re signed it will help. To re sign him, I think both DD and PAP have to go though, as I don't want to lose Emelin.

And you are right on the draft, but be careful here on saying that. It is a combo of trading too many seconds and one first back then, and Timmins being a bit crap in round 1 that is finally catching up. Scherbak and Tinordi are Timmin's chances to make good. Tampa's success is getting a little embarrassing.

They can fit in Petry and go cheap on the bottom end of the defence and they should be okay.

Deshasrnais should be moved because he isn't a logical fit on this team and he's preventing Galchenyuk from moving to where he should be playing.

But that's on the clown coach, so really he should be fired, because in a depth role Desharnais could provide value.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

-And the hole in the top 6 LW position.
-And the hole in the top 4 D position. (We will see if he signs Petry)
-And the Hole in the no 1C position (By not making MT move Chucky there this year, the 'transition' year.)

Sorry, not gaga over MB just yet. And points are on the players that were already here.

Bergevin has gotten a lot of praise, sometimes undeserved.

He's also gotten very little criticism, though in many cases it has been deserved.

I continue to feel compelled to point out he did not inherit your typical 28th place team core/roster/situation and that people are giving him WAY too much credit based on the team now compared to 2011/2012.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

A prime example of Bergevin not getting criticism where it's deserved is his work in the weeks leading up to the deadline.

The Sekac Smith Pelly trade was absurdly bad. The team had plenty of bottom 6 guys who provided no offence, and they chose to bring in one who isn't even acceptable shape?

Petry is great, but he's a pending UFA who will get 5+ and might just price himself out of the market.

Mitchell and Flynn were just not all that necessary.

This is a team getting an MVP performance in nets and they depserately need scoring, and considering the offensive black hole the fat unproductive wart hog is, they actually managed to downgrade offensively.

 

[Sorinth]

It's a team game, do you realize that or are you just being facetious?

It's a team game but not every player contributes equally. Markov will have a greater impact on the team winning than Weaver will.

People like to credit Therrien and Bergevin from turning a last place team into a top team. Yet when Markov was healthy we were winning at a similar pace before and after Therrien took over. The difference was in the 3 years before Therrien came back Markov played only 26% of the games, since then he's played 99% of them (Missed a single game).

 

[HabsDieHard*]

It's a team game but not every player contributes equally. Markov will have a greater impact on the team winning than Weaver will.

People like to credit Therrien and Bergevin from turning a last place team into a top team. Yet when Markov was healthy we were winning at a similar pace before and after Therrien took over. The difference was in the 3 years before Therrien came back Markov played only 26% of the games, since then he's played 99% of them (Missed a single game).

Yup. Yup. Yup.

Very true, and very ignored by the "Bergevin is a god" crowd.

If Markov never gets back to the form he's been at since 2012/2013 this is a middling team.

That much should be clear to anyone.

 

[Justin11]

Bergevin has gotten a lot of praise, sometimes undeserved.

He's also gotten very little criticism, though in many cases it has been deserved.

I continue to feel compelled to point out he did not inherit your typical 28th place team core/roster/situation and that people are giving him WAY too much credit based on the team now compared to 2011/2012.

I'm starting to see it this way as well. Our best players on this team are from the previous regime, like it or not, its a fact. He hired the worst coach IMO.

I was having a conversation with a friend of mine this past weekend regarding Bergevin and he asked me, has MB done anything significant besides maybe the Vanek deal? I thought about it and replied that he has not done much. If people think about it hard, most will come to the same conclusion. I also believe with a healthy Markov back in 2011/12, Habs would have made the playoffs. How many 1 goal games did we lose that season? lots from what I remember.

Also, MB/ MT inherited the best goalie in the world that is peaking at the right time.

Is the previous regime any better than this one? I say no. Does Bergevin deserve all this credit he is getting? no.

Can't wait to see Bergevin's moves this coming offseason.

 

[Moose Head]

The single best decision this team has made since MAB took over is bringing in Waite as goaltending coach. A light went on with Price once that happened. Quite easily the best goaltender in the world the last 2 years.

 

[tinyzombies]

Price was excellent in the first 35 games or so. It's when Emelin went down that the whole team started playing like ****. Notice how we got beaten to a pulp by a crappy team ? That's not on Price sucking, this needs to stop.

But they refused to put Tinordi in the lineup and only used Pateryn sporadically when Emelin went down.