Post-Game Talk: Habs lose to the Leafs. Fail to clinch.

[MarkovsKnee]

What has Slaf who ranks TWELFTH in PP points/60 has done what to earn his spot on PP1?

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Well, we need someone at the net. Everyone can't be on the perimeter. Slafkovsky's role on the PP is to be a distraction to the D to open up ice & win board battles down low, which he largely does. It isn't a point producing role.

Laine is more of a problem because despite his size he doesn't win hardly any battles. He tends to rely on his hands to do it. He bumbles the puck a lot. One of Laine or Caufield needs to get bumped to PP2. Demidov should definitely have the left wall.

PP1: Slafkovsky
Laine/Caufield - Demidov
Hutson - Suzuki

PP2: Gallagher/Heineman
Caufield/Laine - Kapanen
Suzuki - Matheson

 

[StCaufield]

Completely disagree. He had a strong game last night and was the best forward on the ice for many if his shifts.

Absolutely zero merit to a claim that he played "lazy" in any phase of the game.

He created 2 or 3 turnovers behind our goalie, won a high % of his board battles, was first on the puck on several forechecks...

Calling out his play after a game like last night strikes me as having unrealistic expectations.

Yeah you can say that about half of the players last night. I’m pretty critical of Slaf but it was a collective of erratic play by the team

 

[OldCraig71]

Completely disagree. He had a strong game last night and was the best forward on the ice for many if his shifts.

Absolutely zero merit to a claim that he played "lazy" in any phase of the game.

He created 2 or 3 turnovers behind our goalie, won a high % of his board battles, was first on the puck on several forechecks...

Calling out his play after a game like last night strikes me as having unrealistic expectations.

When Slaf is on he's dominant; I think we can all agree on that. The problem for me is the lack of consistency of that happening. Lazy might have been harsh but he is stationary too often for my liking, using that crappy poke check move.

If you are unfamiliar with what I'm talking about, go to Youtube and rewatch the first Senators goal on Friday night. He needs to add more energy to his game. The talent is there but not enough engine. Keep those feet moving, and things will be better. As I said, if Demidov is as advertised, we will see him with Suzuki before long and someone is getting bumped from the first line.

 

[morhilane]

Team is dogmeat on paper and we are gonna make the post season i can't believe the crying here wtf. They obviously put their foot off the gas after a 6 win streak to make seperation with everyone.

I just don't understand how people can possibly be genuinely mad lol

People expected the team who won lots of games to be "the" team. Turns out, they can be a top 10 teams for like 2 weeks, then the goalies save their asses for another week and then they all collapse and turn into a bottom 3 team in the league.

People are now realizing the Habs are going to faceplant in the 1st round if they make it...and they don't like it.

Terrible conditioning (or off-ice/pre-game routines?) on this team and not enough talent, IQ or ability to share the burdens. And the coach is now coaching not to lose the next shift (which means he's out of his depth and we aren't even in the playoffs).

I personally think the best long term would be for them to get kicked out by Columbus. That would assure management focus on fixing things for long-term, instead of thinking they aren't missing too much and can go for a quick fix.

 

[HabbyGuy]

So, youre both saying a team with a secured playoff spot, 5 dman gave more of a concerted effort than a team that still needs points to secure.

You're once again sitting here saying 15 shots total for a team that needs this game is fine.

You're once again saying not being able to take the game to the opponent is fine.

Sitting there and thinking playing like that is acceptable is the insane part.

The only thing the Habs did well and they did really well was PK.

Once again, this team struggled to generate shots in the 1st.

Once again thisnteam struggled to generate shots overall.

This isn't a one and done thing, this is how the team has been playing.

Have to imagine if they give yet another piss poor performance offensively people will be there trying to defend the team again.

If they do, I'll be there laughing at you guys again.

1. Toronto wanted this game as much as we did, they're trying to win the Atlantic, last night was important for them to that end.

2. No one is saying 15 shots are ideal, just saying it wasn't lack of effort that caused that issue, Montreal actually lead in scoring chances after 2 despits only having 8 shots on net at that point.

3. The habs (two line team) tried the best they could to "take it" to the leafs but were thwarted by a team determined as a whole to collectively clog the front of the net to block shots.

4. The teams effort was commendable last night and more than acceptable. They'll need to find a way to break through, but I have no qualms whatsoever with their work effort.

5. The PK was great agreed!

6. Team was ready to go from the start, the shot totals as discussed doesn;t change that.

7. Team has a pretty stellar record since the 4 nations break, one and done indeed.

8. I will defend them if they deserve it, I won't if they don't.

9. If the team struggling gives you pleasure and desire to laugh at others because of it, than there are other issues at hand no?

Go Habs!!!

 

[Miller Time]

So, youre both saying a team with a secured playoff spot, 5 dman gave more of a concerted effort than a team that still needs points to secure.

The laffs aren't playing for regular season outcomes. I don't think you understand the mindset of pro athletes nor of contenders.

If you think any team, but especially a team coached by a guy like Berube would be content to coast into the playoffs

You're once again sitting here saying 15 shots total for a team that needs this game is fine.

I'm saying you have to watch the game, rather than read a stat line, to understand what happened. Of course, understanding what your watching is also required.

You're once again saying not being able to take the game to the opponent is fine.

Unrealistic expectations are... Unrealistic.

Sitting there and thinking playing like that is acceptable is the insane part.

Not for people who understand hockey... Including the arguably pro-leafs CBC broadcast team

The only thing the Habs did well and they did really well was PK.

We had a very good outcome on PK. But the PK time, and the laffs "taking the game to the Habs" during their PP time, was a big driver of the shot differential.

It's funny that you can't see the disconnect & incoherence in your own takes.

Once again, this team struggled to generate shots in the 1st.

Yet we had a higher % of shot attempts and high danger chances, did we not?

Cherry picking stats to complain about makes for weak arguments. Watching the game is a better starting point.

Once again thisnteam struggled to generate shots overall.

No, we didn't. We didn't have a high volume of shots on net, but we had a very respectful volume of shot attempts, and remove special teams & I believe we had a higher % of high danger shot attempts. Not all misses are the same just as not all shots on net are the same. That's why watching the game is important.

This isn't a one and done thing, this is how the team has been playing.

This was our best game in a long time. Teams can lose and play better than in a win. It's a results business, but confusing the result with level of play is a risk of stat watching.

Have to imagine if they give yet another piss poor performance offensively people will be there trying to defend the team again.

If we keep playing like we did last night, the goals will come.

If they do, I'll be there laughing at you guys again.

And I'll be there pitying you for your inability to appreciate a very positive time for fans of this organization. It must suck not to be able to enjoy the success the team has had this season. I feel for ya :hug:[/QUOTE]

 

[Miller Time]

I know the context and the problem is they couldn’t hit the net or it was blocked. That’s like playing a game of pool and leaving yourself good angles and shots to win but choking. They played good in a sense of their entries yes and passing is debatable but I see your point and it’s valid to a point but missing the net doesn’t mean they can be happy about how they played

No, a sport like hockey isn't at all comparable to pool.

Shooting at a target with a human goalie is completely different than shooting at a target without one. Deception and timing are two massively different variables. In target shooting, any degree of miss is a poor attempt. In goalie shooting, a miss an inch wide if the post is better than a shot right at the goalies chest (which would be several inches wide if an opening.

You have to understand the context.

 

[HabbyGuy]

Someone said he’s sitting if they didn’t clinch last night

Highly doubt that, they wouldn't have brought him over to sit in the pressbox. He will start Monday.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Team is dogmeat on paper and we are gonna make the post season i can't believe the crying here wtf. They obviously put their foot off the gas after a 6 win streak to make seperation with everyone.

I just don't understand how people can possibly be genuinely mad lol

They make GDTs unreadable. It becomes just a vent fest.

 

[StCaufield]

No, a sport like hockey isn't at all comparable to pool.

Shooting at a target with a human goalie is completely different than shooting at a target without one. Deception and timing are two massively different variables. In target shooting, any degree of miss is a poor attempt. In goalie shooting, a miss an inch wide if the post is better than a shot right at the goalies chest (which would be several inches wide if an opening.

You have to understand the context.

You’re saying quality over quantity. Really the context is that they were dog shit last night. I’m sure Marty wasn’t thinking that they played fine. It was embarrassing. Agree to disagree

 

[Miller Time]

When Slaf is on he's dominant; I think we can all agree on that. The problem for me is the lack of consistency of that happening. Lazy might have been harsh but he is stationary too often for my liking, using that crappy poke check move.

Was Matthews consistent every shift?
Marner?
Nylander?
Tavares?

You have to have realistic expectations for a criticism to be grounded, otherwise it's complaining for the sake of complaining.

Not picking a 21 year old player for not having perfect performances seems like a waste of time imo

If you are unfamiliar with what I'm talking about, go to Youtube and rewatch the first Senators goal on Friday night. He needs to add more energy to his game. The talent is there but not enough engine. Keep those feet moving, and things will be better. As I said, if Demidov is as advertised, we will see him with Suzuki before long and someone is getting bumped from the first line.

You could find YouTube clips of any player in the NHL having bad plays or bad shifts or bad games.

The whole is more than the sum of the parts, and the whole of Slaf's game can't be described as lazy or lacking effort...

I'm sure he, the player, is even more critical of his game and could pin point a myriad of bad decisions/moments above and beyond what we can pick up from watching the broadcast... I just don't see the value or rationale in framing relatively minor miscues and areas for improvement as more than that. On the whole, his game is damn impressive. He's progressing in every phase and building the 200ft habits of a dominant end to end player that can contribute and impact the game in all situations. Very few players do that at any age and even fewer at 21.

 

[Gustave]

6-1-1 in the last 8 games.

Read it, absorb it, enjoy it.

 

[Miller Time]

You’re saying quality over quantity. Really the context is that they were dog shit last night. I’m sure Marty wasn’t thinking that they played fine. It was embarrassing. Agree to disagree

They weren't "dog shit", to suggest that is a very weak and ungrounded assessment, that's what I'm saying.

I'm sure Marty was very pleased with how his young team competed on the tail end of a back to back, on the road against one of the best teams in the league that is fighting to secure the #2 conference seed & could finish anywhere from 4th to 10th in the standings (home ice in playoffs matters).

Again, context matters. Ignoring that leads to terrible takes.

Agree to disagree indeed.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

The laffs aren't playing for regular season outcomes. I don't think you understand the mindset of pro athletes nor of contenders.

If you think any team, but especially a team coached by a guy like Berube would be content to coast into the playoffs



I'm saying you have to watch the game, rather than read a stat line, to understand what happened. Of course, understanding what your watching is also required.



Unrealistic expectations are... Unrealistic.



Not for people who understand hockey... Including the arguably pro-leafs CBC broadcast team



We had a very good outcome on PK. But the PK time, and the laffs "taking the game to the Habs" during their PP time, was a big driver of the shot differential.

It's funny that you can't see the disconnect & incoherence in your own takes.



Yet we had a higher % of shot attempts and high danger chances, did we not?

Cherry picking stats to complain about makes for weak arguments. Watching the game is a better starting point.



No, we didn't. We didn't have a high volume of shots on net, but we had a very respectful volume of shot attempts, and remove special teams & I believe we had a higher % of high danger shot attempts. Not all misses are the same just as not all shots on net are the same. That's why watching the game is important.



This was our best game in a long time. Teams can lose and play better than in a win. It's a results business, but confusing the result with level of play is a risk of stat watching.



If we keep playing like we did last night, the goals will come.



And I'll be there pitying you for your inability to appreciate a very positive time for fans of this organization. It must suck not to be able to enjoy the success the team has had this season. I feel for ya :hug:

If you trust advanced stats, the expected goals were below 2 and the goals against was over 4.

So, you're saying the leafs took it to the Habs on the PP, but the Habs couldn't generate shit on their PP ? ( something i mentioned a while ago would happen)

The PK with Dobes kept this game close. The offense sucked.

I wanted the Habs to tank, but since they won't on a few runs and now they're right here, how about they stop showing up late and being unable to get any shots. You have to win now as you cant tank and get a high-end prospect from the get go.

This team is playing exactly like they did during their slump before the 4 nations break where they were ass.

If the "Toronto wants it just as bad" is a valid excuse, then what the f*** is this team going to do in the playoffs ? Put up 15 pathetic shots and say "yeah, at least we got here, though" ?

Maybe Demidov will be a spark, but this team, aside from Dobes needs a collective kick in the ass.

Suzuki and Hutson might be getting tired from having to carry all the offense on this team.

The team is right there and they've been coming out flat for the majority of games for a month now.

 

[Miller Time]

They make GDTs unreadable. It becomes just a vent fest.

It has become the worst I've seen it in years... There's a very vocal contingent of posters who keep polluting GDTs with non stop delusional takes... I really don't get it.

 

[HabbyGuy]

You’re saying quality over quantity. Really the context is that they were dog shit last night. I’m sure Marty wasn’t thinking that they played fine. It was embarrassing. Agree to disagree

Starting at 3:10 if you don't understand french.

Postgame @ TOR: St-Louis | Montréal Canadiens

 

[StCaufield]

Starting at 3:10 if you don't understand french.

Postgame @ TOR: St-Louis | Montréal Canadiens

Eye test says otherwise

 

[Rapala]

Dobes 2 goals against in 2 games. That's solid back up goaltending.

MSL needs to do some line up tweaks in a big way though.

Dobes and his record saved our season there isn't anyone who can say otherwise.

 

[StCaufield]

They weren't "dog shit", to suggest that is a very weak and ungrounded assessment, that's what I'm saying.

I'm sure Marty was very pleased with how his young team competed on the tail end of a back to back, on the road against one of the best teams in the league that is fighting to secure the #2 conference seed & could finish anywhere from 4th to 10th in the standings (home ice in playoffs matters).

Again, context matters. Ignoring that leads to terrible takes.

Agree to disagree indeed.

So just because they realized that they were playing a hockey game in the third period and didn’t do a thing for the first 2 is fine? Thats just a loser mentality. Pretty basic stuff. Hit the net. There was 12 newhooks last night that couldn’t hit the net

 

[HabbyGuy]

Eye test says otherwise

You should probably get a new prescription.


I was just responding to you remark about Marty. He was more than fine with the team tonight.

"I'm really proud of the way of the way the guys played tonight coming off a back to back, it's a big point for our group, and not just the way we got the point, we had to fight, I liked our attention and we played with alot of heart,"

Marty's eyes were fine.

 

[Miller Time]

If you trust advanced stats, the expected goals were below 2 and the goals against was over 4.

I trust watching the game and only glimpse at stats to add context to what I observed, or what I may have missed. If you start from the stat sheet and then try to understand the game, that's a poor approach.

So, you're saying the leafs took it to the Habs on the PP, but the Habs couldn't generate shit on their PP ? ( something i mentioned a while ago would happen)

You predicted that the #6 PP in the league would be better at generating scoring chances than the #21 PP.... Wow, what an amazing Nostradamus-like power of foresight you posses

The PK with Dobes kept this game close. The offense sucked.

1-0 loss in OT

Leafs had 18 blocked shots.

Again, you have to watch the game.

I wanted the Habs to tank, but since they won't on a few runs and now they're right here, how about they stop showing up late and being unable to get any shots. You have to win now as you cant tank and get a high-end prospect from the get go.

It is quite evident that your complaints reflect unmet expectations and disappointment.

Perhaps if you let go of your tanking desire, you'd be less negatively biased in your assessments

But I wonder if you can see how incoherent your wishes are?

"I want the team to tank"
(presumably because you don't think the roster is good enough to be in the playoffs/win in the playoffs).

"I expect the team to play better than they are"
Yet we're in a playoff spot with 3 games to go, have one of the best records in the league for over 1/4 of the toughest part of the season and we're 6-1-1 down the final stretch.

Completely inconsistent and incoherent takes, no wonder you're so frustrated :

This team is playing exactly like they did during their slump before the 4 nations break where they were ass.

Last night was one of our better performances of the season.

If the "Toronto wants it just as bad" is a valid excuse, then what the f*** is this team going to do in the playoffs ? Put up 15 pathetic shots and say "yeah, at least we got here, though" ?

That was an excellent road playoff game. If we bring that level of effort and play to the post season, we might just win a series or two.

Maybe Demidov will be a spark, but this team, aside from Dobes needs a collective kick in the ass.

Thankfully, this Therrien type of nonsense is no longer a risk for our team.

Suzuki and Hutson might be getting tired from having to carry all the offense on this team.

Suzuki was the best C on the ice last night.

Hutson gave Rielly a run for his money.

A fan of the Habs would be thrilled that our two young stars outplayed the laffs veteran stars in a game like last night...

The team is right there and they've been coming out flat for the majority of games for a month now.

Yet they came out strong last night and you're still complaining. Sucks to be you.

 

[OldCraig71]

Was Matthews consistent every shift?
Marner?
Nylander?
Tavares?

You have to have realistic expectations for a criticism to be grounded, otherwise it's complaining for the sake of complaining.

Not picking a 21 year old player for not having perfect performances seems like a waste of time imo




You could find YouTube clips of any player in the NHL having bad plays or bad shifts or bad games.

The whole is more than the sum of the parts, and the whole of Slaf's game can't be described as lazy or lacking effort...

I'm sure he, the player, is even more critical of his game and could pin point a myriad of bad decisions/moments above and beyond what we can pick up from watching the broadcast... I just don't see the value or rationale in framing relatively minor miscues and areas for improvement as more than that. On the whole, his game is damn impressive. He's progressing in every phase and building the 200ft habits of a dominant end to end player that can contribute and impact the game in all situations. Very few players do that at any age and even fewer at 21.

Why would I compare Slaf to established players in the league? A 60 goal scorer? A top 10 setup guy in the league in Marner. A star in Nylander and a proven star player in Tavares. I'm sorry but Slaffy isn't even in the same conversation as these players. When he accomplishes a bit more the comparison might be warranted.

You see what you see in Slaf and simply accused me of complaining or nitpicking, but I know what I see. I see a big man who is not currently using his size to his advantage and will need to to take the next step. I see him getting caught flat-footed way too often, and I see one of him or Caufield getting demoted from the first line.

I am not going back and forth with you for 10 replies on this, and if you want to walk away claiming I am wrong then so be it, I couldn't care less. I know what I see from him when he's struggling and I love what I see from him when he decides to show it.

 

[Miller Time]

So just because they realized that they were playing a hockey game in the third period and didn’t do a thing for the first 2 is fine? Thats just a loser mentality. Pretty basic stuff. Hit the net. There was 12 newhooks last night that couldn’t hit the net

Nope. If you watched the game you might realize that this was not the case. We played very well in the first, killed 4min of PK time in the 2nd (& navigated 1/4 of the period with our best defenseman in the box).

18 blocked shots tells a different story... As does watching the game .

 

[salbutera]

There’s no excuse. You’re giving Toronto too much credit. If that’s the case then expect 10 shots a game in the playoffs where players put their bodies on the line even more. Caufields 80 shots last night from the goal line won’t do it either. Shot attempts doesn’t mean they played good because they didn’t. Could’ve been 5-0 if it weren’t for Dobes. Absolutely abysmal effort for a team trying to clinch

“In da mix” was all about experiencing & understanding the highs & lows of high intensity late season games … like last night for 53% of this roster of young players all but Newhook, Suzuki & Caufield who’ve never experienced it at NHL level

“There’s no excuse” ?? Of course there is, where did you have this team finishing the 24-25 season prior to game 1?

Exactly..

 

[Miller Time]

Why would I compare Slaf to established players in the league? A 60 goal scorer? A top 10 setup guy in the league in Marner. A star in Nylander and a proven star player in Tavares. I'm sorry but Slaffy isn't even in the same conversation as these players. When he accomplishes a bit more the comparison might be warranted.

If Slaf was the best forward on the ice for several shifts, some of which featured those very players that you say he shouldn't be compared to because they are much better, wouldn't it stand to reason that his overall play is in a positive place?

You see what you see in Slaf and simply accused me of complaining or nitpicking, but I know what I see. I see a big man who is not currently using his size to his advantage and will need to to take the next step. I see him getting caught flat-footed way too often, and I see one of him or Caufield getting demoted from the first line.

Maybe better glasses is what's required

I am not going back and forth with you for 10 replies on this, and if you want to walk away claiming I am wrong then so be it, I couldn't care less. I know what I see from him when he's struggling and I love what I see from him when he decides to show it.

Future is bright

Enjoy (or don't lol)