Post-Game Talk: Habs lose in Oiltown

[ChesterNimitz]

The Oilers took the night off, that wasn't them at 100 percent.

I think fans are underestimating the overall mobility of Montreal's defence. That mobility keeps us in a lot of games. If we can actually add productive, NHL level 2nd and 3rd forward lines, many of those one goal games that we are now losing, will become wins. Those 15 to 20 extra points mean the difference between making or missing the playoffs.

The loss of Dach was a crippling blow to this team's chances this year. If he returns at full strength next year, that will be a huge plus to this team, and have a far more immediate and near term positive impact than any player we will probably be drafting in the 6 OA to 9 OA range this summer. Dach, in full health, immediately gives us an effective second line, taking the pressure off the thin patina of elite players who have so admirably carried this team this season.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

We are better than we think. All these close lost games by one goal as ChesterNmintz say before me. Imagine we have a second line scoring goals, not a ton but goals with regularity. And then a good trd line. n 2 or 3 year we can dream making to the PO. Even next year with Dach healthy all year we can miss the PO by close.

 

[OldCraig71]

I think fans are underestimating the overall mobility of Montreal's defence. That mobility keeps us in a lot of games. If we can actually add productive, NHL level 2nd and 3rd forward lines, many of those one goal games that we are now losing, will become wins. Those 15 to 20 extra points mean the difference between making or missing the playoffs.

The loss of Dach was a crippling blow to this team's chances this year. If he returns at full strength next year, that will be a huge plus to this team, and have a far more immediate and near term positive impact than any player we will probably be drafting in the 6 OA to 9 OA range this summer. Dach, in full health, immediately gives us an effective second line, taking the pressure off the thin patina of elite players who have so admirably carried this team this season.

I agree with everything you said here but could have done without the first sentence. We have a good young group of defensemen but there have been games where we have been overwhelmed by opponents, especially stronger teams. The Oilers did not bring their A-game last night and we stayed close because of it.

 

[OldCraig71]

We are better than we think. All these close lost games by one goal as ChesterNmintz say before me. Imagine we have a second line scoring goals, not a ton but goals with regularity. And then a good trd line. n 2 or 3 year we can dream making to the PO. Even next year with Dach healthy all year we can miss the PO by close.

What have we shown on nights when our goalies have given us an average performance? Primeau's game in Calgary is a good example of this and on the flip side, think back to his shutout against Columbus, 40 plus saves while our team bled chances for the majority of the game but we won. We have not dominated many games this season and I have been here for all of them, there's plenty of work to do.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

I agree with everything you said here but could have done without the first sentence. We have a good young group of defensemen but there have been games where we have been overwhelmed by opponents, especially stronger teams. The Oilers did not bring their A-game last night and we stayed close because of it.

We have played 40 one goal games this year. Many against stronger opponents. Did all of those teams not bring their A-games?

Our problem isn't defence. We have one of the more mobile defences in the league. Matheson, Guhle, Struble, Harris and Barron while he was here, give us a great advantage over many teams. Particularly with the highly mobile Matheson and Guhle playing almost half the game between them. But the severe drop off in talent and effectiveness from our first line to the second, third and fourth lines is so severe it can give any Montreal fan the proverbial bends.

Until we can reconstruct our bottom three lines, we will always come up short.

 

[jrom]

I think one of the possible issues Hughes may face is that as a former agent he befriended many of the players he represented including Struble, Harris, Matheson. I wonder how difficult it will be for him to move guys he became close to.

That’s Gorton’s job right there.

 

[Runner77]

We are better than we think. All these close lost games by one goal as ChesterNmintz say before me. Imagine we have a second line scoring goals, not a ton but goals with regularity. And then a good trd line. n 2 or 3 year we can dream making to the PO. Even next year with Dach healthy all year we can miss the PO by close.

Yes and no. The team is getting points in games where there are no stakes. Let’s see what they do when there will be expectations and pressure to win — that’ll be a better litmus test in my view.

I’d say the team is better on an individual basis with notably Suzuki taking another step forward and Slaf breaking out. Roy showing promise and Ghule just scratching the surface. Monty also solidifying his grip on being a no. 1 goalie is interesting and would like to see him carry that forward to when the team will be good enough to contend.

 

[OldCraig71]

We have played 40 one goal games this year. Many against stronger opponents. Did all of those teams not bring their A-games?

Our problem isn't defence. We have one of the more mobile defences in the league. Matheson, Guhle, Struble, Harris and Barron while he was here, give us a great advantage over many teams. Particularly with the highly mobile Matheson and Guhle playing almost half the game between them. But the severe drop off in talent and effectiveness from our first line to the second, third and fourth lines is so severe it can give any Montreal fan the proverbial bends.

Until we can reconstruct our bottom three lines, we will always come up short.

I like the no-quit attitude this team has shown and that might have to do with the motivation they receive from MSL, they refuse to quit which is a very good attribute to see from a rebuilding team.

Only San Jose has given up more shots than the Montreal Canadiens, what would you say is the reason for that? You say that our problem isn't defense so why the high shot totals? We supposedly limited the Oilers last night and it had more to do with our shutting them down than them having an off night so why are we second-worst in the NHL for shots given up?

Our defense is very good at scoring goals and we are near the top of the league in that category but as I said, we give up so many shots.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

I like the no-quit attitude this team has shown and that might have to do with the motivation they receive from MSL, they refuse to quit which is a very good attribute to see from a rebuilding team.

Only San Jose has given up more shots than the Montreal Canadiens, what would you say is the reason for that? You say that our problem isn't defense so why the high shot totals? We supposedly limited the Oilers last night and it had more to do with our shutting them down than them having an off night so why are we second-worst in the NHL for shots given up?

Our defense is very good at scoring goals and we are near the top of the league in that category but as I said, we give up so many shots.

Defense is a team effort. Any breakdown in the play of the forwards, defence and goaltending is a recipe for defeat.

Half our forwards are either AHL level or NHL veterans on the decline. We are so reliant on those few NHL level forwards that they get worn down later in the game. Also, after the Suzuki line and a few spasmodic bursts by the Newhook line, our other forwards can rarely establish puck control in the opposing zone. And as most know, the best defence is a good offence.

 

[HuGort]

They lost like winners tonight, even if they had lost in regulation. They played great and went toe-to-toe with one of the league's best teams.

Shows we are close.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Yes and no. The team is getting points in games where there are no stakes. Let’s see what they do when there will be expectations and pressure to win — that’ll be a better litmus test in my view.

I’d say the team is better on an individual basis with notably Suzuki taking another step forward and Slaf breaking out. Roy showing promise and Ghule just scratching the surface. Monty also solidifying his grip on being a no. 1 goalie is interesting and would like to see him carry that forward to when the team will be good enough to contend.

I think ChesterN explained better than I can do. What I like is the young core is progressing fine. The old vets who are overpaid are costing us games and there's nothing MSL or Hughes can do when they are still under contract. Only miracles or prowess can ship those contracts away. This team still need adding talent at key positions but I think the D is filled. Having offense spots to fill is not an impossible task.

I agree we won some games with our goalies stealing games and when the hard season starts (december to feb) our team looks like they are not matching average and top teams. Habs are facing 2nd goalies and sometimes teams doesn't take us seriously. I saw some very desorganized Habs team without any system at all almost all year long and since a month there is some kind of system and sometimes games are pretty tight on the ice and on the scoreboard. So I thing it's slowly moving into the right direction.

 

[OldCraig71]

Defense is a team effort. Any breakdown in the play of the forwards, defence and goaltending is a recipe for defeat.

Half our forwards are either AHL level or NHL veterans on the decline. We are so reliant on those few NHL level forwards that they get worn down later in the game. Also, after the Suzuki line and a few spasmodic bursts by the Newhook line, our other forwards can rarely establish puck control in the opposing zone. And as most know, the best defence is a good offence.

We also have players on defense that are above their station, not their fault but it is a reality of a rebuilding team. Matheson is our number one D but you know as well as anyone that he isn't that. Savard is a reliable veteran but lacks foot speed but is a great shot blocker with limited offense. Guhle, Xhekaj and the others are learning on the job and doing well but our defense is still average at best and one of the big reasons for the high shot totals against.

I believe that one of the reasons we have been competitive in games has been to the credit of our centers winning draws at a high percentage especially before Monahan was traded. It is a contributing factor in helping our defense to score goals.

We sit 8th in the NHL in faceoff percentage at 52.2%, not a bad accomplishment and it suggests that we start more often than not with possession in all zones after a faceoff. Suzuki is our best center but the others are doing relatively well at winning pucks for their teammates.

 

[Rapala]

I don't really see why we need to even use another team or player. Caufield has already been to cup final and was either the best or 2nd best forward on that team. And he graded well league wide in those playoffs. And he's a more complete player now than he was then.

I get being realistic about players and not over-hyping guys, but if Caufield is not deemed an ideal top-line winger to the degree that it precludes looking at a guy like Zegras (especially in the context of what that has actually meant for the last 10-15 years), then Montreal might as well trade everyone older than Slafkovsky and start over again.

I have my reasons for feeling Caufield is not in the proper seat but that in and of itself it doesn't preclude us from looking at Trevor Zegras.
What it does do is make us think twice about where a Trevor Zegras would fit into this lineup.
Does he automatically replace Suzuki or Kirby Dach or are we trading one of those guys to acquire him?
If Caufield is a second line player like I believe is playing him with Zegras going to work because Zegras is not replacing our Captain.

I can't pretend to understand what exactly you're trying to say with the especially in the context of what that has meant for the last 10-15 years?
If anything the lessons of the past should alert us to what playing players in positions they are not suited for can end up costing.
Listen both guys are obviously talented but icing a top level team takes a lot more than talent alone.

 

[habbubba]

The Oilers took the night off, that wasn't them at 100 percent.

That much was obvious but if I were an Oilers fan,I would not be confident that they have the team to go all the way.

 

[OldCraig71]

That much was obvious but if I were an Oilers fan,I would not be confident that they have the team to go all the way.

It's hard to say how things will go for them this year. It's easy to react to a bad game like the one they had last night but it means nothing, the playoffs are the measuring stick. A lucky bounce here or there and they might be in the cup finals. We made it during the COVID-19 cup, a large factor in playoff success is pure luck. "When you make the playoff anyting can happen".

 

[habbubba]

It's hard to say how things will go for them this year. It's easy to react to a bad game like the one they had last night but it means nothing, the playoffs are the measuring stick. A lucky bounce here or there and they might be in the cup finals. We made it during the COVID-19 cup, a large factor in playoff success is pure luck. "When you make the playoff anyting can happen".

Naturally it's difficult to know with a 100% certainty even among the most observant. No one can foretell what will be as there are so many questions to be answered. Injuries can be a huge factor in the outcome of a game, series.

'' when you make the playoffs and anything can happen'' is not wrong. Of course you have to make it first to the playoffs and Edmonton is on their way. Not so for Montreal, they are not even trying to make the playoffs the last few seasons and who can blame them.

 

[OldCraig71]

Naturally it's difficult to know with a 100% certainty even among the most observant. No one can foretell what will be as there are so many questions to be answered. Injuries can be a huge factor in the outcome of a game, series.

'' when you make the playoffs and anything can happen'' is not wrong. Of course you have to make it first to the playoffs and Edmonton is on their way. Not so for Montreal, they are not even trying to make the playoffs the last few seasons and who can blame them.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here that hasn't already been said. We are rebuilding and instilling good habits in our young players that will take the next step when surrounded by more depth and talent.

 

[habbubba]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here that hasn't already been said. We are rebuilding and instilling good habits in our young players that will take the next step when surrounded by more depth and talent.

Gosh darn it. Sorry for causing so much confusion to everybody. I thought it was clear what I was trying to say. I'll try putting it differently and hope it clears things up.

Guess I should start at the beginning, this is about two teams, maybe that is where it got confusing? I'll separate what I say about both so as to not create more confusion.

About the Edmonton team. This is a team that is trying to make the playoffs. The team also made moves to the roster to help that and they hope that the moves they did is good enough that it will help them go deep in to the playoffs.

If you are a fan of that team, it is exciting to be a fan. Edmonton plays games that for a fan, are worth watching as the games have something on the line.

The Montreal team is not interested to even try to make the playoffs or improve the team during the season which is obvious to everyone, not the directive and why should they? there is no incentive for the time being.

As a fan, these games are not interesting to watch, nothing on the line. But many people have different criteria to watch stuff.