Post-Game Talk: Habs defeat the Jets in OT

[Paddy17]

Scoring by committee.............maybe? Bruins, in 2011 did it.
Top scoring forward, had 65pts? Something like that................

Although that was then........................elite talent has to be drafted, or at least found via trade when young, and potential gets missed by the GM.


Ylonen has been sent to that line.............sad.

The fact that Armia plays higher in the lineup than Ylonen makes me mad.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Scoring by committee.............maybe? Bruins, in 2011 did it.
Top scoring forward, had 65pts? Something like that................

Although that was then........................elite talent has to be drafted, or at least found via trade when young, and potential gets missed by the GM.


Ylonen has been sent to that line.............sad.

And he spent the entire game (like 7 minutes) chasing pucks sent flying to no one in particular by Pezz and Stephens unfortunately

 

[Rapala]

When Struble starts playing 25+ minutes a night every night, maybe you’d have a point. Mistakes are guaranteed.

I feel like you’ve just glossed over my point so it’s not very interesting to discuss how a guy looks good for the 12 minutes he’s on the ice.

Struble has done everything asked for and more. Put it this way if I'm looking to close out a game I'm currently more comfortable with Struble. Nobody claims he possesses the talent Matheson has on offense but he is clearly a far better defender able to win one on one battles. His strengths are Matheson's weaknesses including decision making. So no people don't need to tone down their approval of Struble's game. When and if it wavers sure. When Suzuki started on a fourth line were we supposed to tone down our appreciation of his game? Matheson playing more minutes doesn't absolve him and it's a very poor argument. He's a seasoned veteran you are comparing to a raw rookie. We can only comment on what is playing out in front of us. Claiming it's easy to play 12:00 minutes of very solid defending is a terrible take I wasn't seeing either Harris or Xhekaj being that effective. The natural progression is to continue giving Struble more minutes until we do find a point where he becmes unstable.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Struble has done everything asked for and more. Put it this way if I'm looking to close out a game I'm currently more comfortable with Struble. Nobody claims he possesses the talent Matheson has on offense but he is clearly a far better defender able to win one on one battles. His strengths are Matheson's weaknesses including decision making. So no people don't need to tone down their approval of Struble's game. When and if it wavers sure. When Suzuki started on a fourth line were we supposed to tone down our appreciation of his game? Matheson playing more minutes doesn't absolve him and it's a very poor argument. He's a seasoned veteran you are comparing to a raw rookie. We can only comment on what is playing out in front of us. Claiming it's easy to play 12:00 minutes of very solid defending is a terrible take I wasn't seeing either Harris or Xhekaj being that effective. The natural progression is to continue giving Struble more minutes until we do find a point where he becmes unstable.

Rapala, you’re basing this off of seeing him play very limited minutes. I’m not saying he’s not looking good, but how will he look after playing 28 minutes? You’re noticing the mistakes of a player playing half the game because he’s playing half the game. It’s easier to play 12 sheltered minutes well.

Saying Struble’s strengths are Matheson’s weaknesses makes no sense.

 

[Rapala]

We got him for Petry….he’s actually surpassed what I was expecting out of him.

If he were our 3 he’d be sitting in the right chair!

Does that absolve him from the continual unforced errors?
I get it he's in over his head.
Maybe he needs to take a step back and realize he's far more effective when he tries to do less.

 

[Rapala]

No, he’s not perfect. But for a player who plays 26 minutes a night, in all game situations; is third in team scoring; provides elite skating, is a respected team leader; is an important reason why this talent challenged team is still in the playoff picture and is paid a modest $4.5 million salary, he receives a lot of knee jerk, if not predictably monotonous criticism.

For those here who incessantly clamour for the team to trade him I would remind and caution them of that all too accurate adage: be careful of what you wish for.

Sorry. We have to be satisfied with what he brings to the O side of the game even if his decisions can be suspect on occasion. He is in a wrong chair but I feel we can come out much further ahead on the ledger. Elite skating sure yet loses an edge at the most inopportune moments. What you call knee jerk is simply a reaction to needless attempts at playmaking. Someone pointed out in the GDT if there s a more complicated way of proceeding Matheson will likely find it. I'm hard on him because he can be so much better. At the same time I'm not clamouring to trade him. Harder puck movement and less attempts at finesse in the D zone will work wonders for him. We know he's hung out to dry in many instances but firing pucks off the glass and re-setting is far better than the turning back into trouble or the soft pass attempts the opposition love to jump on.. These aren't huge adjustments.

Rapala, you’re basing this off of seeing him play very limited minutes. I’m not saying he’s not looking good, but how will he look after playing 28 minutes? You’re noticing the mistakes of a player playing half the game because he’s playing half the game. It’s easier to play 12 sheltered minutes well.

Saying Struble’s strengths are Matheson’s weaknesses makes no sense.

And you are putting assumed mistakes on his plate he hasn't made yet is all I'm saying.

 

[jrom]

The fourth line doesn’t have the talent to complete passes.

I think it will help to get out from under the injuries with RHP and Newhook back.

Stephens I’m surprised he’s that ineffective. At the AHL level he is an effective C and strong on the faceoffs but we’re not seeing that.

Ylonen deserves better then the 4th line

 

[bonneaug]

I hope Heineman gets the nod in for Pezz next game. The fourth line can’t create anything right now, and to be honest, Pezz is riding on last year’s accomplishments. The boys like him, but he hasn’t produced much of anything this season.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

I don't get the criticism of Mike Matheson. He may not be Rod Langway defensively but he is asked to eat 25+ minutes per night and he does a pretty damn good job.
He has never played #1 D type of minutes and I appreciate what he brings.

As far as Barron and his whole 74 games of NHL experience folks need to not be so hard on him as well.
Yes he has some challenges at times with his defensive game but can we at least allow him to develop a bit more before hammering him at every turn?
He was the 7th D when the year started and now he plays 20+ minutes per night. Also he is barely 22.

The PP hate doesn't make sense either. He's not perfect, but people are acting like we have way better options than him for pp1.

The only defensemen with more pp points than him in the nhl are Hughes, Fox, Makar, Bouchard, and Ghostibehere. He has more pp points than Dahlin and Karlsson. He's also only 1 goal behind the pp goalscoring leader among dmen.
And it's not like Matheson is putting up numbers playing on a good pp team.

Barron, Xhekaj, or Guhle wouldn't be much of an upgrade on Matheson on the pp, if they were to even be an upgrade.

We have to wait until Hutson or Mailloux to possibly see a significant upgrade.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Sorry. We have to be satisfied with what he brings to the O side of the game even if his decisions can be suspect on occasion. He is in a wrong chair but I feel we can come out much further ahead on the ledger. Elite skating sure yet loses an edge at the most inopportune moments. What you call knee jerk is simply a reaction to needless attempts at playmaking. Someone pointed out in the GDT if there s a more complicated way of proceeding Matheson will likely find it. I'm hard on him because he can be so much better. At the same time I'm not clamouring to trade him. Harder puck movement and less attempts at finesse in the D zone will work wonders for him. We know he's hung out to dry in many instances but firing pucks off the glass and re-setting is far better than the turning back into trouble or the soft pass attempts the opposition love to jump on.. These aren't huge adjustments.


And you are putting assumed mistakes on his plate he hasn't made yet is all I'm saying.

When one looks at the holes in our current roster: a largely AHL level 4th line; a plethora of inexperienced defencemen; underperforming veterans and less than elite goaltending and then realize that we are still on the cusp of a playoff spot, some acknowledgement and credit has to be given to those players who are carrying the burden of the team's limited success. And who carries the largest burden? Matheson, who plays the most minutes and in all high leveraged situations.

One has to assume that there is a modicum of competence behind our bench. Do you really think MSL and company would continue to play Matheson the grotesque amount of minutes per game if they thought we had better options? We don't. Maybe within year or so, when Guhle, Barron and Struble gain more experience and some of the promising defensive prospects arrive, we can lighten Matheson's role. Until then, Matheson provides us with the greatest chance of winning. It’s obvious our coaching staff thinks so. And in this observer's opinion, they are correct in that determination. Mistakes or otherwise.

 

[GrandBison]

We're 27th in GF/gp and 24th in GA/gp, 25th in SF/gp and 29th in SA/gp... and dead last in Regular Time wins.

This team would bankrupt a lot of bookies if it won a playoff round, I can tell you that.

We've seen that happen before

 

[HabbyGuy]

If we want that elite scoring forward, I don’t know that you can get him if he’s not drafted. Most teams tend to hold on to that type of player.

Maybe we can win without one?

Yeah I dunno, it seems Hughes hinted at that before about not necessarily needing a "superstar' to win. All I know is this fanbase deserves one. One that's not a goalie anyway. It's sad how long it's been for this proud franchise to have gone as long as it has without a genuine star forward.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Only geezers are going to get that one,and I qualify. lol

I've passed 'geezerness' and quickly approaching 'former'.

 

[Habnot]

Matheson is quickly becoming the next scapegoat on this team but I don't get the hate. He is being paid as a second pair guy but:

- He averages over 25+ minutes a game
- Third in team scoring - tied for 14th in D scoring in NHL
- Plays PP and PK

These are all traits of a quality first pairing D in the NHL.

Would he benefit playing less? Yes but clearly no one else is ready to assume more minutes. As we are noticing with Guhle, adding minutes really impacted the quality of his play.

Is he sometimes mistake prone - absolutely - but so the majority of D's playing enhanced minutes. Sooner or later it catches up to you.

I don't see the necessity of trading Matheson and hope he plays out his contract and maybe signs on to finish his career, playing a lesser role. You need a mix of vets and young players and from all account, he is a truly respected vet in the room. Possibly the hardest working player on the team and a face of the franchise in communicating with the press and fan base.

 

[HabbyGuy]

Matheson is quickly becoming the next scapegoat on this team but I don't get the hate. He is being paid as a second pair guy but:

- He averages over 25+ minutes a game
- Third in team scoring - tied for 14th in D scoring in NHL
- Plays PP and PK

These are all traits of a quality first pairing D in the NHL.

Would he benefit playing less? Yes but clearly no one else is ready to assume more minutes. As we are noticing with Guhle, adding minutes really impacted the quality of his play.

Is he sometimes mistake prone - absolutely - but so the majority of D's playing enhanced minutes. Sooner or later it catches up to you.

I don't see the necessity of trading Matheson and hope he plays out his contract and maybe signs on to finish his career, playing a lesser role. You need a mix of vets and young players and from all account, he is a truly respected vet in the room. Possibly the hardest working player on the team and a face of the franchise in communicating with the press and fan base.

I like Matheson, he's a very fun player to watch, frustrating at times too. He's just asked to do too much, that's not his fault, it's just where this team is at right now.

 

[Habssince89]

The bottom Six needs to be sorted for sure. Heinemen will help but I'm hoping he's good enough to stay up and we can get Pearson back at least in Jan(?) and roll out a better second line

 

[RabbleMasterBlaster]

We’re dead last in the league in regulation wins with 6. These overtime games are inflating our record.

I was thinking about this. You aren't the first one to point this out. But...never really expand on why that matters? For tie breakers? Is that it? Is there no OT in playoffs now? Winning a lot of games in OT isn't necessarily bad imo. Just shows that the team can close. I exclude SO from this question.

Is there a stat that shows teams with more OT wins either don't make the playoffs or do poorly in them? Can you explain why this record is a net negative to you and then why it is for the team?

 

[ReHabs]

I was thinking about this. You aren't the first one to point this out. But...never really expand on why that matters? For tie breakers? Is that it? Is there no OT in playoffs now? Winning a lot of games in OT isn't necessarily bad imo. Just shows that the team can close. I exclude SO from this question.

Is there a stat that shows teams with more OT wins either don't make the playoffs or do poorly in them? Can you explain why this record is a net negative to you and then why it is for the team?

You mean other than the fact that 3-on-3 hockey and shootouts are not found at any time in the playoffs?

 

[Rapala]

When one looks at the holes in our current roster: a largely AHL level 4th line; a plethora of inexperienced defencemen; underperforming veterans and less than elite goaltending and then realize that we are still on the cusp of a playoff spot, some acknowledgement and credit has to be given to those players who are carrying the burden of the team's limited success. And who carries the largest burden? Matheson, who plays the most minutes and in all high leveraged situations.

One has to assume that there is a modicum of competence behind our bench. Do you really think MSL and company would continue to play Matheson the grotesque amount of minutes per game if they thought we had better options? We don't. Maybe within in year or so, when Guhle, Barron and Struble gain more experience and some of the promising defensive prospects arrive , we can lighten Matheson's role. Until then, Matheson provides us with the greatest chance of winning. Its obvious our coaching staff thinks so. And in this observer's opinion, they are correct in that determination. Mistakes or otherwise.

I think we will see Struble getting more minutes starting with the PK as the easiest way to take some of the burden off Matheson.
Not a huge risk given our numbers.

 

[JianYang]

I was thinking about this. You aren't the first one to point this out. But...never really expand on why that matters? For tie breakers? Is that it? Is there no OT in playoffs now? Winning a lot of games in OT isn't necessarily bad imo. Just shows that the team can close. I exclude SO from this question.

Is there a stat that shows teams with more OT wins either don't make the playoffs or do poorly in them? Can you explain why this record is a net negative to you and then why it is for the team?

Well, I do recall the Habs in 2020-2021 were awful at 3 on 3. At one point, they had lost 10 straight OT games. They became a bit better when they focused on puck possession, but they were so cautious that it was awful to watch.

Then the playoffs rolled around and we went to 5 on 5 OT. I don't recall the Habs exact record, but it was a good record. I'm thinking off the top of my head but I think they went 2-0 against Toronto, 1-0 against the jets, then 2-1 against the Knights followed by 1-0 against the lightning.

That makes the Habs 6-1 in 5 on 5 playoff ot which was night and day to the struggles they had in 3 on 3 OT that year.

 

[RabbleMasterBlaster]

Well, I do recall the Habs in 2020-2021 were awful at 3 on 3. At one point, they had lost 10 straight OT games. They became a bit better when they focused on puck possession, but they were so cautious that it was awful to watch.

Then the playoffs rolled around and we went to 5 on 5 OT. I don't recall the Habs exact record, but it was a good record. I'm thinking off the top of my head but I think they went 2-0 against Toronto, 1-0 against the jets, then 2-1 against the Knights followed by 1-0 against the lightning.

That makes the Habs 6-1 in 5 on 5 playoff ot which was night and day to the struggles they had in 3 on 3 OT that year.

Well all that does is say Habs have benefited from OT. Still doesn't explain why a poster paints the stat in a negative light. It's not like having the best 5 on 5 record means a cup *cough* Bruins *cough*.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

When one looks at the holes in our current roster: a largely AHL level 4th line; a plethora of inexperienced defencemen; underperforming veterans and less than elite goaltending and then realize that we are still on the cusp of a playoff spot, some acknowledgement and credit has to be given to those players who are carrying the burden of the team's limited success. And who carries the largest burden? Matheson, who plays the most minutes and in all high leveraged situations.

One has to assume that there is a modicum of competence behind our bench. Do you really think MSL and company would continue to play Matheson the grotesque amount of minutes per game if they thought we had better options? We don't. Maybe within in year or so, when Guhle, Barron and Struble gain more experience and some of the promising defensive prospects arrive , we can lighten Matheson's role. Until then, Matheson provides us with the greatest chance of winning. Its obvious our coaching staff thinks so. And in this observer's opinion, they are correct in that determination. Mistakes or otherwise.

Exactly. We’re rebuilding. Plenty of injuries. The youngest team in the league (I think?) and we’re playing .500 hockey.

Yet people are acting like it’s never been worse. Still plenty of work to do but I don’t understand how we could be reasonably expected to do better at this point.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Exactly. We’re rebuilding. Plenty of injuries. The youngest team in the league (I think?) and we’re playing .500 hockey.

Yet people are acting like it’s never been worse. Still plenty of work to do but I don’t understand how we could be reasonably expected to do better at this point.

The operative word in your response is reasonable. An approach that some here cannot adopt.

 

[rik schau]

I've passed 'geezerness' and quickly approaching 'former'.

Well Mr. Button, or can I call you Benjamin? it is rather curious how you look so young beyond your years, isn't that right Nancy?

I know, that's a terrible President Reagan impersonation, sounded better in my head. lol

 

[JianYang]

Scoring by committee.............maybe? Bruins, in 2011 did it.
Top scoring forward, had 65pts? Something like that................

Although that was then........................elite talent has to be drafted, or at least found via trade when young, and potential gets missed by the GM.


Ylonen has been sent to that line.............sad.

The bruins had Bergeron and krejci down the middle.

The Habs have Suzuki and dach. This is the area that I pay attention to first and foremost when building the foundations of a cup winner.

If dach becomes better than Suzuki, then I think we can say that the center position has a set foundation, then you can build around that.

I like dach, but I can't make a reasonable prediction of where he will end up because he's always hurt. I think it's a huge blow that he misses this year both for his development and for the team.