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Zorro

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Aug 5, 2011
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I don’t agree with this. And the data doesn’t seem to support it.

If that were the case we’d see fewer shots and we’d see them from further away from where hes shooting. None of that lines up with what it being a size problem.

The ONLY thing wrong with his season was a horrible shot percentage. And that’s likely- at least in part - to shoulder surgery.

It will always be a risk. But you can’t attribute every mistake to size. The reality is, he had a really, really good year but just didn’t get the results that he should’ve.

Hopefully it doesn’t continue but shoulders can be tricky. Take it from someone who’s had frozen shoulder for a year and a half.

In retrospect i think that this was a great learning year for Caufield, because it showed that he's not a one-trick pony. 37 assists is nothing to sneer at, even Matthews, the current goal scoring machine, got 38 assists. I think his overall point total is awesome (considering he had surgery), and no one would have bat an eye if it would have resulted in 45 goals and 20 assists. The fact that fans are "disappointed" with his results speaks volume of what he's capable of putting out.

He plays bigger than he is and that's what counts. We've seen huge players, afraid of their own shadow so just because they are big doesn't necessarily mean they play big.
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
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One of the main reasons he dropped to 15th overall was his lack of size. I still have ptsd from the Smurf era and I look away every time Caufield goes into the corner after a puck for fear that some 200-pound player will crush him.

Ok? I get the issue of being too small as a team collectively, but there shouldn't really be an issue if the team has small players, especially when they're as effective/good as Caufield.

Like, it be one thing if management picked Cooley and Mitchkov (both of whom are more wiry than Caufield) along with Hutson, but they didn't.

Size also means different things when looking at weight or height, but TOI adjusted, Montreal isn't even that small, more short.
 

OldCraig71

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It’s not about “deserve.” The underlying numbers are there. A player with 314 shots ‘should’ score more than 28 goals, especially when it’s from as in close as he is. Most likely the surgery affected his shooting.

Hopefully he can fully heal and quickly. That’s something I can’t answer.

If teams had adjusted to him he wouldn’t have the shots he does. He wouldn’t be shooting from in close as he is. That’s not the problem. Teams haven’t been effective at containing him, his shot just isn’t as good as it was.

He was actually more successful at getting in close this year. All but eight of his goals this year came from in close. The biggest difference Is from the midrange of the ice. Last season his bread and butter was from the midrange of the ice. From there, he shot at 18 percent. This year he put up 160 shots from that area and… shot at a putrid five percent. That is abysmal, almost impossibly bad. And it really suggests that his shot lost some zip. It has nothing to do with teams “adjusting” to him. He was more effective at creating chances in close this year than last. The problem was that his shot simply wasn’t as effective from the midrange of the ice.

That was the big difference from one season to the next. Normally that’d be his office that he could score a ton from. But that fell way off. Fortunately, he made adjustments to shoot from in closer than he normally does. It’d be one thing if he didn’t have the chances he does or if his shots fell off… that’s not happening. The chances are there. He’s been more effective at penetrating opposing defenses. He just didn’t convert this year.
If he lost shot velocity due to the lingering effects of surgery he wouldn't be at the WC right now, he would be taking a vacation and getting back to work with a physio team trying to get ready for next season.

You also suggested that "adjusting" couldn't be a reason for his lack of success only to suggest that his shot lost some zip. That's a head-scratcher for me, unless you have the stats that measured his shot velocity from one year to the next. Seriously though, is that something that is even tracked? If not, it is a baseless claim to suggest that his shot has dropped several mph because of shoulder surgery.

It is very plausible that goalies have the book on him based on his tendencies as a shooter, teams do watch the tape and will make every attempt to shut down a goal scorer. I watched all of the games and yes, his shot totals were high but quite a few of them came from ridiculous angles with a 1 in 50 chance of beating an NHL goalie.

Ok? I get the issue of being too small as a team collectively, but there shouldn't really be an issue if the team has small players, especially when they're as effective/good as Caufield.

Like, it be one thing if management picked Cooley and Mitchkov (both of whom are more wiry than Caufield) along with Hutson, but they didn't.

Size also means different things when looking at weight or height, but TOI adjusted, Montreal isn't even that small, more short.
If Caufield was 6 feet tall and 200 pounds with the goal-scoring ability he showed in College hockey do you think that he drops to 15th overall?
 

Lafleurs Guy

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If he lost shot velocity due to the lingering effects of surgery he wouldn't be at the WC right now, he would be taking a vacation and getting back to work with a physio team trying to get ready for next season.
Atheletes who get this surgery generally have poor performance results the first year they get it.

He just played a full season of hockey. I’m not sure how you jump to the conclusion that he should be doing 24 hour a day physio now that he season’s over.
You also suggested that "adjusting" couldn't be a reason for his lack of success only to suggest that his shot lost some zip. That's a head-scratcher for me, unless you have the stats that measured his shot velocity from one year to the next. Seriously though, is that something that is even tracked? If not, it is a baseless claim to suggest that his shot has dropped several mph because of shoulder surgery.
What I’m saying is that the numbers don’t support your argument that teams adjusted to him. If that were the case he wouldn’t have had the scoring chances he did from where he did. Teams weren’t successful at limiting him from that perspective.

The numbers tell us that from midrange in the ice, his shooting percentage dropped by almost 80 percent. That suggests that something was wrong with his shot.

Now, I can’t say for certain what happened. And I wasn’t sitting there with a radar on his shots. But all of a sudden he can’t score from where he’s had success his whole life… and this happens right after shoulder surgery. Yeah, I think it has something to do with it.
It is very plausible that goalies have the book on him based on his tendencies as a shooter, teams do watch the tape and will make every attempt to shut down a goal scorer. I watched all of the games and yes, his shot totals were high but quite a few of them came from ridiculous angles with a 1 in 50 chance of beating an NHL goalie.
In your previous post, you said teams have adjusted. That doesn’t seem to be the case so now it’s the goalies? Suddenly they have this particular shooter all figured out?

Isn’t it more likely that surgery explains the difference? If goalies had him figured out then why can’t they stop him in close?

I find it really hard to believe that the goalies from 31 different teams suddenly figured out to stop CC from the slot all at once.
If Caufield was 6 feet tall and 200 pounds with the goal-scoring ability he showed in College hockey do you think that he drops to 15th overall?
I think I had misread your original post or it was edited.

I agree, size is why he was drafted so late. I thought you had said size was why his scoring dropped.

And yeah, he went 15th because he was small. He wouldn’t go 15th in a redraft though. He’d be top five for sure. Has the 2nd most goals from that draft and tons of upside. I think he’ll be the 2nd best player in that draft by the time it’s all said and done.
 
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Lafleurs Guy

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In retrospect i think that this was a great learning year for Caufield, because it showed that he's not a one-trick pony. 37 assists is nothing to sneer at, even Matthews, the current goal scoring machine, got 38 assists. I think his overall point total is awesome (considering he had surgery), and no one would have bat an eye if it would have resulted in 45 goals and 20 assists. The fact that fans are "disappointed" with his results speaks volume of what he's capable of putting out.

He plays bigger than he is and that's what counts. We've seen huge players, afraid of their own shadow so just because they are big doesn't necessarily mean they play big.
On a normal year it would’ve been a great season. How much of his passing would’ve happened if his shot was firing I don’t know. Maybe he would’ve played like this anyway but had 50 goals to go along with it.

Maybe not though. Maybe it forced him to pass a little more and I agree his game is more well rounded because of it. MSL has been preaching to him to go to the net more. We saw that happen more often as well. That will definitely serve him in the future, particularly the playoffs.

The crappy thing about that surgery is that it can take up to three years to see a player return to baseline. Hopefully that’s not the case.
 
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OldCraig71

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Atheletes who get this surgery generally have poor performance results the first year they get it.

He just played a full season of hockey. I’m not sure how you jump to the conclusion that he should be doing 24 hour a day physio now that he season’s over.

What I’m saying is that the numbers don’t support your argument that teams adjusted to him. If that were the case he wouldn’t have had the scoring chances he did from where he did. Teams weren’t successful at limiting him from that perspective.

The numbers tell us that from midrange in the ice, his shooting percentage dropped by almost 80 percent. That suggests that something was wrong with his shot.

Now, I can’t say for certain what happened. And I wasn’t sitting there with a radar on his shots. But all of a sudden he can’t score from where he’s had success his whole life… and this happens right after shoulder surgery. Yeah, I think it has something to do with it.

In your previous post, you said teams have adjusted. That doesn’t seem to be the case so now it’s the goalies? Suddenly they have this particular shooter all figured out?

Isn’t it more likely that surgery explains the difference? If goalies had him figured out then why can’t they stop him in close?

I find it really hard to believe that the goalies from 31 different teams suddenly figured out to stop CC from the slot all at once.

I think I had misread your original post or it was edited.

I agree, size is why he was drafted so late. I thought you had said size was why his scoring dropped.

And yeah, he went 15th because he was small. He wouldn’t go 15th in a redraft though. He’d be top five for sure. Has the 2nd most goals from that draft and tons of upside. I think he’ll be the 2nd best player in that draft by the time it’s all said and done.
I didn't suggest 24 hours of physio but if there were concerns post surgery I wouldn't expect to see him at the World Championship.

I didn't edit my post, it's not hard to misread things here especially when responding to multiple people, I do it all the time.

I don't see him in the same light that most of you do, I see more of a Cammalleri/Hoffman type of goal producer but with that said, I would love to be proven wrong.

If this season was a bump in the road and he scores 40 next year it will be fine by me.
 
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Lafleurs Guy

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I didn't suggest 24 hours of physio but if there were concerns post surgery I wouldn't expect to see him at the World Championship.
The point is though that he played a full season. Clearly it's not so bad that he can't be an effective player. Why wouldn't he play in the worlds? Esp since he seemed to catch fire at the end of the year.

He'll have four months to heal/physio/work out...
I didn't edit my post, it's not hard to misread things here especially when responding to multiple people, I do it all the time.
Yeah, I think I just misread it. My mistake.
I don't see him in the same light that most of you do, I see more of a Cammalleri/Hoffman type of goal producer but with that said, I would love to be proven wrong.

If this season was a bump in the road and he scores 40 next year it will be fine by me.
He has a significantly better resume than either of those players coming in. And he had 48 in 82 right off the bat. That's incredible for any player.

Unfortunately, the injury seems to have stunted him this year. And it may stunt him going forward... Normally, I'd say he was a shoe in for 50 goals. But now? I think 40 next season is a good target.

He will never be the player Slaf is. That's not his game. His game is to act as a finisher. Nobody would disagree that a finisher who finishes with a shooting percentage under 10 isn't going to be as effective as he otherwise would be. If we were basing things off of this year, then sure... I'd say maybe he's a really good second liner. But if he finished as he normally has (as he has his whole life) then we'd have seen a 50 goal year already. Goals are the most valuable contribution a player can make. Any player who can put up 50 is at minimum a star player if not a superstar.

It sucks that we have to now wait on this shoulder thing to see what he'll do. 40 goals is great. Hopefully he gets there next year. 50 is elite. I still think he can get there, but there's doubt that wasn't there before. And that sucks.

Maybe it's just a Canadiens curse. Maybe we're just not allowed to have 50 goal players anymore.
 

Habano

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Hey guys, I just tuned in, how are Rohrer and Guhle looking
 

le_sean

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A little surprised Reinbacher isn’t there for Austria. Was he hurt? I forget
 

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