Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Rumours

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

Dhaliwal basically saying today Canucks haven't traded for a defenseman because every time they pick up the phone the counter party is asking for Willander.

I still don't think that really excuses them from not addressing depth in the summer or looking at cheaper options like Carrier, but whatever.

So, they called about Bryam and the Sabres said they wanted Willander+. The Canucks called back later and wanted Byram and they still wanted Willander+. Fascinating.

 

[Quinning]

So, they called about Bryam and the Sabres said they wanted Willander+. The Canucks called back later and wanted Byram and they still wanted Willander+. Fascinating.

Willander shouldn't be considered for anything IMO, there's a reason every team in the league is asking for him. He's about as sure a bet to be a top 4 defenceman as any drafted prospect right now.

I'd trade Lekkerimaki over Willander 9/10 times, and that's nothing against the former.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

If I had to bet today on which team makes the playoffs out of VAN, CAL, UTA, STL I'm betting on the Canucks. Perhaps it's homerism, we can agree to disagree, but I imagine most people would bet the same both inside and outside the market (well, maybe "today" isn't best day given the last game we just played but that tide will turn as it always does after the next solid win - think of how different the temperature was 2 days ago coming off that Leafs win and knowing Hronek was coming back).

IMO the Canucks are a step above these teams assuming health and by all accounts want to be involved on or before the trade deadline and are willing to sell futures. And yeah it won't be easy to find a player that is ready to fit into this core now and be a significant contributor but that's management's job. As most GM's will say, the public only becomes aware of a fraction of players/trades that are being considered.

Like Hronek, a team might not be shopping a player and then someone throws a decent package at them and they reconsider.

The bet wouldn't be on each team though, it would be one of the team vs the field, since they are all fighting for 1 WC spot. Individually the Nucks might be the favorite, but the field is the overwhelming favorite to take that last WC spot. In that sense, Van is still a long shot to make the playoff. Therefore, the optimal strategy should be to move off the pending UFAs (and JTM if possible), take the assets and cap space and try to find replacements at the draft/summer. I really doubt they would do that due to other reasons (pissing off Hughes, upsetting the fan base, etc), but in terms of team building I think that is the best course of action.

And the whole league knows the Nucks are desperate for a D, and there aren't many available to begin with, therefore any trade we make (whether a long term piece or rental) we are going to pay through the nose for it. Is that really the best way forward for the organization, to overpay and buy at the position of weakness, just to try and save this season? Even if we sneak into the playoff, we stand no chances against the top seed teams, is that really worth the assets we trade for the upgrade?

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Nonis said the same thing with teams asking for Edler, Bourdon and Kesler in every deal when looking for offensive help, then his ass got fired in the offseason. At some point you just have to do your job.

Management was praised nonstop last year for finding a way to get the job done without giving up major pieces, and deserves equal amounts of blame for sitting on their ass all year & allowing the defense + culture issues to spiral out of control.

Every contract except Hughes and Demko has been signed by these guys - no excuses for not being able to fix it. Fabbro was available for free, Carrier for peanuts, etc. Instead Juulsen is still playing hard matchup minutes for us instead of riding the bench.

It's ridiculous how this season is mirroring that 2007-2008 season.

Like, it was clear Vancouver needed secondary scoring after 2006-2007. Yet his answer was to bring in Byron Ritchie and Brad Isbister while also trading for Ryan Shannon and Matt Pettinger (would have been wise to just acquire a pick from Washington). We held onto a few trade chips at the deadline for no reason as well.

So yeah, hold onto your assets and picks. Flip Boeser and make amends this off-season and fix the f***ing defense.

 

[racerjoe]

The bet wouldn't be on each team though, it would be one of the team vs the field, since they are all fighting for 1 WC spot. Individually the Nucks might be the favorite, but the field is the overwhelming favorite to take that last WC spot. In that sense, Van is still a long shot to make the playoff. Therefore, the optimal strategy should be to move off the pending UFAs (and JTM if possible), take the assets and cap space and try to find replacements at the draft/summer. I really doubt they would do that due to other reasons (pissing off Hughes, upsetting the fan base, etc), but in terms of team building I think that is the best course of action.

And the whole league knows the Nucks are desperate for a D, and there aren't many available to begin with, therefore any trade we make (whether a long term piece or rental) we are going to pay through the nose for it. Is that really the best way forward for the organization, to overpay and buy at the position of weakness, just to try and save this season? Even if we sneak into the playoff, we stand no chances against the top seed teams, is that really worth the assets we trade for the upgrade?

I completely disagree the field is overwhelming the favourites. It seems pretty much a two horse race now with us and the flames, and I think we should have the odds provided we are finally healthy.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

I completely disagree the field is overwhelming the favourites. It seems pretty much a two horse race now with us and the flames, and I think we should have the odds provided we are finally healthy.

I wouldn't sleep on Utah, they are getting Marino and Druzi back soon. Losing Guenther hurts big time for sure, but they still have some fire power left in Keller, Cooley, Schmaltz and Sergachev , who would be 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 6th in points on the Nucks this season.

St Louis has also played better under their new coach. Fowler was a big add for them and their top 4 is very respectable. Weak up front but Kyrou would be leading the Nucks in goals, and they have 4 guys that outscore our 2nd leading scorer.

And I don't know if we are finally "healthy". JTM might be playing but he is clearly injured and is playing like it. Hughes is playing through a hand injury. I suspect Petey is still not at full health as he isn't producing like a 1C. Who knows about Demko, he might be in and out of the lineup going forward.

 

[F A N]

It's strange. JR came onboard and said all the right things. It seems like this management group intended to be proactive rather than reactive....

It was quite clear the team had already tuned out Bruce Boudreau in late 2022 (dismal start to October 2022 and a .500 team that looked dead in the water by Christmas). Everyone knew he was a dead man walking, and it took forever for management to react (possibly due to FAQ's reluctance to pay for multiple coaches).

I don't think the team tuned Boudreau out. The Canucks lost all their October games but they had second period leads (by mutiple goals even). Even in December, they won games including two 3 game winning streaks and winning in OT etc.

It was a difficult situation to operate from the start. Rutherford seemingly didn't want Boudreau back when he expressed surprise that Boudreau had an option year left on his contract. Then in early November he criticized the system and defensive structure including the team's training camp to the point he made the odd comment that it doesn't matter who was on D if you have a strong structure.

Every contract except Hughes and Demko has been signed by these guys - no excuses for not being able to fix it. Fabbro was available for free, Carrier for peanuts, etc. Instead Juulsen is still playing hard matchup minutes for us instead of riding the bench.

Garland's contract was also signed by previous management.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

So negative fellas, so negative.

#KCCO

 

[kanucks25]

The bet wouldn't be on each team though, it would be one of the team vs the field, since they are all fighting for 1 WC spot. Individually the Nucks might be the favorite, but the field is the overwhelming favorite to take that last WC spot. In that sense, Van is still a long shot to make the playoff. Therefore, the optimal strategy should be to move off the pending UFAs (and JTM if possible), take the assets and cap space and try to find replacements at the draft/summer. I really doubt they would do that due to other reasons (pissing off Hughes, upsetting the fan base, etc), but in terms of team building I think that is the best course of action.

And the whole league knows the Nucks are desperate for a D, and there aren't many available to begin with, therefore any trade we make (whether a long term piece or rental) we are going to pay through the nose for it. Is that really the best way forward for the organization, to overpay and buy at the position of weakness, just to try and save this season? Even if we sneak into the playoff, we stand no chances against the top seed teams, is that really worth the assets we trade for the upgrade?

I would bet the Canucks over the field. And I think management and perhaps more importantly ownership would, too, therefore I don't see punting as a realistic option despite it likely being the wisest course of action. I think they'll stick with their plan of continuing to add/improve with every transaction and hope for the best.

I do agree with everything you're saying. With the steps some individual players have taken back this season and even goaltending being a question mark heading into the playoffs, we're a lot further away from being a legit contender than I and probably management thought we'd be at the start of the season.

At this point, we don't have enough assets to trade to fix everything that's wrong with this team, especially because like you mention we'd be paying a premium in any trade.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Sounds about right

He's a soon to be 32 year old at the start of a retirement contract with rumored conflict with his teammates which isn't anything new for him in his career. He's proven to be a 100 pt producer and COULD age like Pavelski. But he carries massive risk due to the contract and could end up ruining the culture for another franchise. It's also well known that this franchise is itching to move on for him which further depletes his value.

It's not just this, but teams playing chicken with us. They're waiting to see if we'll blink because we're on the cusp of missing the playoffs entirely. This is, equally, why Willander+ gets mentioned for every defensemen we show interest in. I wouldn't be surprised if Pittsburgh demanded him.

This is the problem with waiting in season to make a major roster change. Granted, they didn't know this whole drama with Pettersson and Miller would get quite so bad. But they did know our defense was dogshit. It worries me a little seeing Rutherford mostly operated when there wasn't so much parity.

 

[ManVanFan]

So negative fellas, so negative.

#KCCO

Is that still a thing? Lol.

 

[VanJack]

So, they called about Bryam and the Sabres said they wanted Willander+. The Canucks called back later and wanted Byram and they still wanted Willander+. Fascinating.

The sad reality is that you can't 'trade' or 'UFA' your way to competent blueline in today's NHL. And even finding 'depth guys' is going to cost you valuable picks and prospects.

Look at the cost of acquiring Zadorov late last season as a pure rental. It was a least a first round pick; an top prospect; and some late round picks. Although they did manage to dump Kuzmenko's contract.

Is Zadorov a top four guy? Well even that's debatable. A legit top four guy is going to cost you the farm, even if one was available.

So the only options Allvin has every off-season is signing another bunch of marginal guys as UFA's. I mean look at this group. Forbort barely got on the ice in Boston last season; Desharnais wore out his welcome in Edmonton and has been scratched at least 10 times; Juulsen at his best is an AHL-NHL 'tweener; and Myers, well he's Tyler Myers. Now 34 he just can't play top minutes any more. And Brannstrom came in via the waiver wire and is now gone.

And of course Soucy, who was decent last season as an incoming UFA, has seen his game basically implode this season.

I mean outside of Hughes and Hronek, the blueline depth is a disaster. The reason of course is that outside Hughes, they have drafted a single competent d-man.

But at least there's help on the horizon with Wilander, D-Petey, and maybe Mynio and Kudryavtsev. But in fixing the blueline once and for all--patience is the only option they've got.

 

[krutovsdonut]

is it reasonable to suppose that any team interested in either pettersson or miller, and especially miller as he would be a win now move, would wait until after the four nations cup in case they got injured.

 

[kanucks25]

I really thought we were gonna add Dillion in the offseason. I wonder if they tried

Pretty sure I recall rumors about the two sides talking. I wouldn't be surprised if the Canucks didn't want to give him the 3rd year he got in NJD.

I don't think the team tuned Boudreau out. The Canucks lost all their October games but they had second period leads (by mutiple goals even). Even in December, they won games including two 3 game winning streaks and winning in OT etc.

It was a difficult situation to operate from the start. Rutherford seemingly didn't want Boudreau back when he expressed surprise that Boudreau had an option year left on his contract. Then in early November he criticized the system and defensive structure including the team's training camp to the point he made the odd comment that it doesn't matter who was on D if you have a strong structure.

Yeah I don't think the team tuned Boudreau out. I just think they played a style under him that wasn't going to lead to any long-term results.

When he was hired the team got a massive new coach bump (it was a massive breath of fresh air when previous management and coaches were fired) playing in a no-pressure environment as the season was already lost.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

I would bet the Canucks over the field. And I think management and perhaps more importantly ownership would, too, therefore I don't see punting as a realistic option despite it likely being the wisest course of action. I think they'll stick with their plan of continuing to add/improve with every transaction and hope for the best.

I do agree with everything you're saying. With the steps some individual players have taken back this season and even goaltending being a question mark heading into the playoffs, we're a lot further away from being a legit contender than I and probably management thought we'd be at the start of the season.

At this point, we don't have enough assets to trade to fix everything that's wrong with this team, especially because like you mention we'd be paying a premium in any trade.

We definitely agree on most of the points covered. To quote MS, "this isn't video game", from ownership down to management down to the coaching staff down to the players, nobody would willingly "punt" the season if there are any realistic chance of making the playoff. Even if they are totally getting slaughtered by the Jets/Knights/Oilers if they get there, they will still go for it. And I get it, its the competitiveness of sports and the "anything can happen once you get in" mentality. You also try to make the most of Hughes' Hart-worthy season. Is it worth sacrificing assets for a lost season? I don't think so, but thats not how things work.

The problem with the highlighted is that we thought going into the season we have 2 PPG centers, a 35+ goal scorer, a Vezina level starting goalie, and a Norris level D on the backend. That on paper is a legit contender. As the season unfolds, we realize we only have 1 of the 4 pillars, and it doesn't look like the other 3 pillars will be returning to form any time soon. In a totally "video game" world, there should be some re-evaluation and an adjustment to the plan. But I do get why that won't happen though.

 

[racerjoe]

I wouldn't sleep on Utah, they are getting Marino and Druzi back soon. Losing Guenther hurts big time for sure, but they still have some fire power left in Keller, Cooley, Schmaltz and Sergachev , who would be 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 6th in points on the Nucks this season.

St Louis has also played better under their new coach. Fowler was a big add for them and their top 4 is very respectable. Weak up front but Kyrou would be leading the Nucks in goals, and they have 4 guys that outscore our 2nd leading scorer.

And I don't know if we are finally "healthy". JTM might be playing but he is clearly injured and is playing like it. Hughes is playing through a hand injury. I suspect Petey is still not at full health as he isn't producing like a 1C. Who knows about Demko, he might be in and out of the lineup going forward.

Except Utah is what five points back with the same number of games played, and as you pointed out are still unhealthy. The blues have played more games and are farther back.

I don’t think we are a lock for the playoffs, but strictly speaking odds wise, it’s easily us as the favourites against the field. Finally having the full team back, time to make moves, and on paper the best roster, with a good lead in the standings except for the Flames.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Is that still a thing? Lol.

Did it ever have to stop? Is a better question. Feel like people just said the words but never felt the sentiment.

 

[Quinning]

It's not just this, but teams playing chicken with us. They're waiting to see if we'll blink because we're on the cusp of missing the playoffs entirely. This is, equally, why Willander+ gets mentioned for every defensemen we show interest in. I wouldn't be surprised if Pittsburgh demanded him.

This is the problem with waiting in season to make a major roster change. Granted, they didn't know this whole drama with Pettersson and Miller would get quite so bad. But they did know our defense was dogshit. It worries me a little seeing Rutherford mostly operated when there wasn't so much parity.

We don't have the prospects or the team quality to make a "win now" move. Other teams know that and are going to freeze us out.