Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Rumours

[LemonSauceD]

JT Miller (a 1st and a prospect or a younger player equivalent to a 1st and a prospect)

Hoglander (a 3rd/4th rounder? Genuinely don’t know what he’s worth to GM’s)

Desharnais (a late round pick)

Boeser (a 1st and a prospect)

Lankinen (a 1st or 2 2nd round picks or equivalent)

Soucy (4th rounder)

Heinen (a late round pick)

Suter (can possibly get a 2nd, probably a 3rd)

 

[Nick Lang]

Our depth players offer us surplus value but don't move the needle for contenders. We don't have a Barbashev or a Paul or an Ekholm, the type of player a contender is really going to pay for. You're getting mid round picks and then icing an AHL bottom 6. It does nothing to improve the team.

If you actually want to change the team, it'll come from gutting the top-6 and top-4 players that hold significant salaries AKA major surgery.

And then again we come back to the fact that Hughes won't be sticking around for major surgery. So worrying about mid round picks for depth players is a complete waste of time.

And no organization is going to punt on the season just to acquire mid round picks when they're in a position to quite easily make the playoffs. You have to be realistic.

Yeah, you see a lot of posters just completely frustrated and willing/trying to do anything to change it up. Sell players, rebuild, trade core pieces, and the like. Sometimes, like now, you just have to sit tight and do nothing. We aren't having the success we wanted but we also don't have many real options.

At this point it's probably best to ride it out to the TDL and then reassess. We have no one decent to trade except Boeser and maybe Suter gets us a third. Garland would be good value. Forbort maybe a fourth at TDL prices. However Boeser or Garland would then need replacing. At any rate even if we plod along we should be right there with Calgary, the Blues, and Utah for the final Wildcard spot.

While this is true, the team has not played well all season, and their top players (aside from Hughes) have not had a good season so far, it is easy to see them slide right out of the race over the next few weeks when we actually play some good teams and division rivals.

Most likely they will just plod along because "they are still in the race", but realistically there is a very real chance they won't make it (Calgary keeps winning the winnable games, Utah's D is getting healthy, there are some competitions for the last WC spot). A pro-active GM might be able to get assets (picks and/or prospects) back for their pending UFAs or players that no longer fits, and use those assets during the draft/summer to upgrade the team. An indecisive GM might sit tight, or buy, just to sneak in and get swept in the first round, or miss the playoff altogether, and lose all their UFAs for nothing. That is why some teams are asset-rich and some are asset-poor. We'll find out which side Allvin is by the TDL.

If we're close enough I can see a stopgap add to the defence for cheap. Say a third and prospect or something. This group always claims to be asset savvy. This year will be really telling if we're in the same boat come TDL. It sucks the cap space situation just gets worse next year.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

If playoffs don’t seem like it’s going to happen this year (certainly trending that way), we should be able to get some pretty solid pieces back if we trade off a lot of our guys.

Miller, Boeser, Suter, Lankinen, Hoglander, Heinen, Desharnais, Soucy (if you can get him to waive his NMC this year), could all fetch some pretty good returns.

New Jersey had a similar down year last season with all their injuries after having an incredible 2022-2023 season and they sold off a couple of guys like Marino, Toffoli, Bahl, Vanacek and Holtz and made moves to improve their roster like Markstrom, Cotter, Kovacevic, Pesce, and Dillon and are having a great rebound season.

The main difference is we actually have a lot more tradeable pieces and a lot more guys coming off the books that should net us much more assets.

I mean there’s this talk of Hughes not signing with us but it’s not like New Jersey has won a whole lot during the same amount of time he’s been with us. In fact we’ve largely had more success than NJ during Quinn’s career.

Yea but that is the past and NJ is trending upwards. Jack and Luke are studs in their early 20s, they also have prime aged players like Hischier and Bratt. Not to mention the numerous high end prospects they have accumulated, that should be graduating to the NHL roster in the near future. The future looks a lot brighter for them than us.

 

[Tinhorn1]

JT Miller (a 1st and a prospect or a younger player equivalent to a 1st and a prospect)

Hoglander (a 3rd/4th rounder? Genuinely don’t know what he’s worth to GM’s)

Desharnais (a late round pick)

Boeser (a 1st and a prospect)

Lankinen (a 1st or 2 2nd round picks or equivalent)

Soucy (4th rounder)

Heinen (a late round pick)

Suter (can possibly get a 2nd, probably a 3rd)

Seems about right. Maybe a touch high on Lankinen and Suter. With Miller I suspect you're getting pennies in the dollar. Great player when healthy, bad contract going forward. Might be better to wait and see if he can be part of a turnaround next year, but who knows.

None of it matters if Pettersson doesn't drastically improve.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Yeah, you see a lot of posters just completely frustrated and willing/trying to do anything to change it up. Sell players, rebuild, trade core pieces, and the like. Sometimes, like now, you just have to sit tight and do nothing. We aren't having the success we wanted but we also don't have many real options.

At this point it's probably best to ride it out to the TDL and then reassess. We have no one decent to trade except Boeser and maybe Suter gets us a third. Garland would be good value. Forbort maybe a fourth at TDL prices. However Boeser or Garland would then need replacing. At any rate even if we plod along we should be right there with Calgary, the Blues, and Utah for the final Wildcard spot.



If we're close enough I can see a stopgap add to the defence for cheap. Say a third and prospect or something. This group always claims to be asset savvy. This year will be really telling if we're in the same boat come TDL. It sucks the cap space situation just gets worse next year.

To me that type of player is not going to move the needle at all for this team. They aren't going anywhere unless their 2 PPG centers get their acts together and start producing near expectations. For whatever reasons (injuries, feud, etc) they haven't done so and doesn't look like they are able to turn it around this season, so any stopgap add is just wasting assets.

But I guess they can try that, say that they did something, and call it a day? Again, we will learn so much about this management group in the next few months.

 

[valkynax]

After losing the next two games, will our front office maintain their silence?

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

After losing the next two games, will our front office maintain their silence?

Yes.

I don’t think anything of substance happens for awhile.

 

[ManVanFan]

Yeah, you see a lot of posters just completely frustrated and willing/trying to do anything to change it up. Sell players, rebuild, trade core pieces, and the like. Sometimes, like now, you just have to sit tight and do nothing. We aren't having the success we wanted but we also don't have many real options.

At this point it's probably best to ride it out to the TDL and then reassess. We have no one decent to trade except Boeser and maybe Suter gets us a third. Garland would be good value. Forbort maybe a fourth at TDL prices. However Boeser or Garland would then need replacing. At any rate even if we plod along we should be right there with Calgary, the Blues, and Utah for the final Wildcard spot.

Calgary last year sold Mangiapane, Markstrom, Hanifin, Tanev, Lindholm, Zadorov, Toffoli in the summer and during the year. They ended up in 24th place last season. They are ahead of Van in the standings now, have a much better looking future.

The Blues sold Barbashev, O'Reilly, Tarasenko, Mikkola. They have a much better looking future and right with the current Canucks in the standings.

 

[Nick Lang]

JT Miller (a 1st and a prospect or a younger player equivalent to a 1st and a prospect)

Hoglander (a 3rd/4th rounder? Genuinely don’t know what he’s worth to GM’s)

Desharnais (a late round pick)

Boeser (a 1st and a prospect)

Lankinen (a 1st or 2 2nd round picks or equivalent)


Soucy (4th rounder)

Heinen (a late round pick)

Suter (can possibly get a 2nd, probably a 3rd)

I don't think there is any way we're trading Lankinen considering our goalie landscape.

I don't know if Hoglander is worth anything. Maybe to a rebuilding team but I wouldn't give up anything for him myself. He's a negative asset except he's a warm body. Expensive term contract though.

Miller ... who knows if he is still on the block. Seems hurt though.

Desharnais, maybe futures if someone's willing to eat another year, but doubtful.

Boeser is definitely a trade candidate.

Soucy has a trade clause and has struggled. Might get a fourth.

Heinen maybe gets you a 6th from someone.

Suter probably gets you a 3rd.

A first, a third, B prospect, and a couple 6ths. Better than nothing I guess and those assets could definitely be used on that D upgrade.

To me that type of player is not going to move the needle at all for this team. They aren't going anywhere unless their 2 PPG centers get their acts together and start producing near expectations. For whatever reasons (injuries, feud, etc) they haven't done so and doesn't look like they are able to turn it around this season, so any stopgap add is just wasting assets.

But I guess they can try that, say that they did something, and call it a day? Again, we will learn so much about this management group in the next few months.

Yeah I totally agree. I think that's just what they'll do to try to salvage something, put a half effort in and hope and pray, but I agree it's not going to move the needle. Hopefully it's just a more minor pick like the third I suggested. We are so done without JT and Petey playing up to expectations. Just winding down the season at this point almost. Unfortunately!

 

[dez]

Dallas could be a good destination for JT something around Bourque, conditional 1st, mid prospect.

 

[Diablo2020]

Four way deal.

To NAS - Elias Pettersson
To WAS - Ryan Orielly, NAS 1st
To NJD - TBL 1st, VGK 1st
To VAN - Ryan Leonard, Simon Nemec


Use the 11.6m in capspace on Granlund and/or Gourde to keep pushing for playoffs.

 

[kanucks25]

While this is true, the team has not played well all season, and their top players (aside from Hughes) have not had a good season so far, it is easy to see them slide right out of the race over the next few weeks when we actually play some good teams and division rivals.

Most likely they will just plod along because "they are still in the race", but realistically there is a very real chance they won't make it (Calgary keeps winning the winnable games, Utah's D is getting healthy, there are some competitions for the last WC spot). A pro-active GM might be able to get assets (picks and/or prospects) back for their pending UFAs or players that no longer fits, and use those assets during the draft/summer to upgrade the team. An indecisive GM might sit tight, or buy, just to sneak in and get swept in the first round, or miss the playoff altogether, and lose all their UFAs for nothing. That is why some teams are asset-rich and some are asset-poor. We'll find out which side Allvin is by the TDL.

I think there's a better chance we do make it than not. We have a better roster on paper than the teams we are competing with and are likely to be more aggressive to improve by the deadline than those other teams who are still young/building.

Again I'm against rentals at this point but I think we can assume management is looking to trade picks and prospects for a good player that fits the core now and going forward.

If we get to the deadline and the team is in a tailspin and looks like missing is a real possibility, then I would reassess. But to punt on this season right now does nothing except likely piss off Hughes.

They aren't improving the Canucks.

The Canucks have not worried about getting something in return for so long. The prospect pool is shallow because they are doing the buying for those mid round pick players but never selling them. Keep them and re-sign them for a larger contract that they then aren't worth anymore.

The realistic part is this group isn't going anywhere. If you are going to go full rebuild, you are going to be trading those bottom 6ers for mid round picks anyways. You're against doing it to keep them mediocre.

Yes, it's my wet dream for the Canucks to remain mediocre. You got me.

If playoffs don’t seem like it’s going to happen this year (certainly trending that way), we should be able to get some pretty solid pieces back if we trade off a lot of our guys.

Miller, Boeser, Suter, Lankinen, Hoglander, Heinen, Desharnais, Soucy (if you can get him to waive his NMC this year), could all fetch some pretty good returns.

New Jersey had a similar down year last season with all their injuries after having an incredible 2022-2023 season and they sold off a couple of guys like Marino, Toffoli, Bahl, Vanacek and Holtz and made moves to improve their roster like Markstrom, Cotter, Kovacevic, Pesce, and Dillon and are having a great rebound season.

The main difference is we actually have a lot more tradeable pieces and a lot more guys coming off the books that should net us much more assets.

I mean there’s this talk of Hughes not signing with us but it’s not like New Jersey has won a whole lot during the same amount of time he’s been with us. In fact we’ve largely had more success than NJ during Quinn’s career.

JT Miller (a 1st and a prospect or a younger player equivalent to a 1st and a prospect)

Hoglander (a 3rd/4th rounder? Genuinely don’t know what he’s worth to GM’s)

Desharnais (a late round pick)

Boeser (a 1st and a prospect)

Lankinen (a 1st or 2 2nd round picks or equivalent)

Soucy (4th rounder)

Heinen (a late round pick)

Suter (can possibly get a 2nd, probably a 3rd)

In what world is Lankinen worth anything like that? Goalies never have that kind of value, especially at the trade deadline, even more so when they are relatively unproven.

Yes you can get a decent haul of futures for Miller and Boeser but then you also have to replace a PPG center and 30+ goal winger.

I'm not opposed to trading any of the guys you mentioned but what exactly is the realistic next step?

 

[LemonSauceD]

Yea but that is the past and NJ is trending upwards. Jack and Luke are studs in their early 20s, they also have prime aged players like Hischier and Bratt. Not to mention the numerous high end prospects they have accumulated, that should be graduating to the NHL roster in the near future. The future looks a lot brighter for them than us.

The point is that with the hypothetical assets we obtain selling off the mentioned players above we should be able to acquire 1 or possibly 2 young core pieces and potentially dip our toes into getting ourselves a higher end FA with the available cap. Guys like Tkachuk/Power/Necas/Byram would be obtainable and then you sign Ehlers or something in FA.

If we do decide to sell, the next logical step would be to have guys like Raty, D-Petey, Willander etc get a couple of months of NHL experience with the hope that they’re able to establish themselves as full time NHL’ers by the start of next season.

In what world is Lankinen worth anything like that? Goalies never have that kind of value, especially at the trade deadline, even more so when they are relatively unproven.

Yes you can get a decent haul of futures for Miller and Boeser but then you also have to replace a PPG center and 30+ goal winger.

I'm not opposed to trading any of the guys you mentioned but what exactly is the realistic next step?

Lankinen’s value right now should be absurdly inflated due to several factors such as his record, his insanely cheap contract, and taking the duties of a starting goaltender and exceeding expectations.

I’m purely speculating but I think teams would much rather spend more assets to get an inexpensive quality goalie than pay less to get a more expensive goalie cap wise of the same caliber.

 

[ManVanFan]

Lankinen’s value right now should be absurdly inflated due to several factors such as his record, his insanely cheap contract, and taking the duties of a starting goaltender and exceeding expectations.

I’m purely speculating but I think teams would much rather spend more assets to get an inexpensive quality goalie than pay less to get a more expensive goalie cap wise of the same caliber.

Columbus or Detroit. Ottawa maybe wants a better back up. Columbus sucks on the road and Lankinen is/was unbeatable on the road earlier this year.

 

[wonton15]

Sell off Miller and Boeser cowards

 

[krutovsdonut]

the whole team is in a sophomore slump in terms of being a serious team. last year teams were not ready for them and the stars lined up and to the extent they didn't they had something to prove to make it work. this year teams are ready for them and the stars have not lined up and they have not had the same follow through.

so we are at the point as fans that i think management has been for a while. this is, at best, a make the playoffs and steal a round team, but more likely we will miss the playoffs or be done in six. i would limit the assets you spend this year just to be better this year to about a 4th round pick or a c prospect. the only moves we should really be making are longterm or hockey trades. those will happen when they happen and cannot be forced as i think management has found out this year.

a few contributing factors.

the goaltending is not there. lankinen saved our ass early on but he has obvious weaknesses even i can scout and will be lit up in a playoff series under sustained attack. demko is just not demko and there is nothing to discuss about the prospects of this team this year unless you have confidence that demko will round into form. i see no reason to expect that.

the defence depth is not nhl quality. what we had last year was cole and zadorov who could play top 4 quality limited minutes in the bottom six and soucy playing like a prime top 4. we now have the opposite with too many guys who are not even bottom 6 regulars. juulsen is a liability and should not be a regular nhl player. myers is a guy who adds value only if you limit his exposure and do not count on him, which the team has been unable to do. you can't win when you have to put one of the other of these guys out in key situations. those two players alone are responsible for multiple losses this year and caused the same mayhem last year.

tochett has them playing a disciplined game even when they stink, to his credit. he has held it together. otoh, he has stifled a lot of creativity and i think overcoached the offence. one reason the team struggles on offence is it has only one official way to score that is working, which is hughes walking the line and getting his shot through. garland's board game has left the building along with joshua. there is no shot from the slot strategy anymore and boeser has had to become a front of the net guy to tip hughes shots to score. pettersson is now just a place for hughes to pass the puck to get out trouble before he gets it back and shoots it. there is a little bit of jt miller shot passing still, but otherwise, the forwards are trying to score from 10 feet out. creative lateral seam passing to move goalies and really any kind of offensive creativity has gone in favour of a get pucks deep forecheck strategy (that is not working) and a get the puck to hughes on the point strategy that defaults to hughes taking a shot on net from the point. that's working even though teams know it is coming, but the lack of other looks is allowing teams to key on and wear down hughes.

pettersson i believe has been coached/teammated out of using his shot for fear it will lead to a loss of possession or a puck zone exit and is now basically a decoy. he has turned to working on defence because he's not allowed to be offensive.

miller has had no chemistry with anyone but hughes all year. he is a great player but he doesn't seem to be leading his own line at time.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Out of curiosity, I wonder if there's a graph available that demonstrates all the viewers that switched the channel (on SNP) after the 1st period of last nights Canucks/Jets game..?

 

[Bleach Clean]

JT Miller (a 1st and a prospect or a younger player equivalent to a 1st and a prospect)

Hoglander (a 3rd/4th rounder? Genuinely don’t know what he’s worth to GM’s)

Desharnais (a late round pick)

Boeser (a 1st and a prospect)

Lankinen (a 1st or 2 2nd round picks or equivalent)

Soucy (4th rounder)

Heinen (a late round pick)

Suter (can possibly get a 2nd, probably a 3rd)

That JT Miller trade would only make sense if they immediately flipped those futures for a 2C, a la Hronek deal.

They would also need a quick Boeser back up plan. (Unlikely)

Are you seriously comparing the results of a finesse winger in his prime years getting favorable deployment to when Detroit threw hilariously hard minutes (~24/g) at a kid on his ELC? deployment matters.

No, I'm clearly pointing out the weakness of the plus/minus stat. We don't say Hronek was a tire fire defensively because he was a combined -95. So I'm not sure why this is an indictment of Bjorkstrand? Especially, when he relatively outperformed Miller and Boeser last year in Ozone% to xGA/60.

 

[kanucks25]

Lankinen’s value right now should be absurdly inflated due to several factors such as his record, his insanely cheap contract, and taking the duties of a starting goaltender and exceeding expectations.

I’m purely speculating but I think teams would much rather spend more assets to get an inexpensive quality goalie than pay less to get a more expensive goalie cap wise of the same caliber.

Value is based on precedent / comparables.

Nobody is going to pay an absurd amount for no reason.

Lankinen isn't a young Carey Price or something.

Blackwood got one 2nd and he's having a better season than Lankinen, not mention he has more experience despite being younger.

 

[rypper]

Kind of feels like the Canucks thought they could limp along to around the deadline, still be in a good position for playoffs, and then weaponize the cap space they've generated.

I believe Vector (?) Has been keeping track of it, and they'd have almost $8M of space without outgoing contracts I think. That'd buy you some decent upgrades. Except it blew up in their face and it'll be a dog fight to get in now.

They kind of still are in that position. They haven't dropped out that far and everyone in the dog fight with them are pretenders.

 

[credulous]

They kind of still are in that position. They haven't dropped out that far and everyone in the dog fight with them are pretenders.

the canucks aren't really that different from the blues, kraken, flames and hockey clubians by the metrics. the kraken are probably too far back to really threaten but the canucks could easily end up behind the other three if they don't start winning some games

 

[valkynax]

Yes.

I don’t think anything of substance happens for awhile.

Sounds about right.

Well, if this is their decision, then they'll garner no sympathy from me if later down the line they showed that they had no idea how to pull the team out of their current situation and start to use injuries and other bullshit excuses.