Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Rumour Has It

[Just A Bit Outside]

The fun part is anything seems to be on the table with Rutherford, this could be a smokescreen attempt to get the Miller offers up, but I feel like Rutherford is also the type of guy to actually turn the smokescreen into reality if everyone tries to call his bluff.

Rutherford is Dracula and Allvin is Renfield.

Don’t wake Dracula up from his nap unless it’s feeding time.

Dracula also doesn’t put up with any shit.

 

[Szechwan]

Good lord this is exhausting, just every day more bullshit

 

[Snatcher Demko]

Keep in mind, plugs like Seravalli and Dhaliwal are fed misinformation (or partially true info) just to influence opinion, gauge reaction, and probably for shits and giggles too.

 

[iceburg]

Why the heck would they want to trade Hoglander right now? If he has any value at all, it is miniscule. We have seen what he can do in the past. If they are trading others, the team will have plenty of cap space. The Canucks should keep Hoglander. With the season going down the crapper, give him a chance to either rebuild his value or become an important piece for this team.

Fair enough. I've always advocated to keep Hoglander. He's young enough to be part of a rebuild. That said, I was at the Buffalo game and I thought Hoglander was really strong. He was apparently a healthy scratch the next game. Not sure where the organization sees him.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Good lord this is exhausting, just every day more bullshit

I measure time by "Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM" threads now.

Just 2 more pages until bedtime!
1 more thread until the start of next week!

 

[arttk]

It was also reported Carolina wanted another forward coming back if they were making the trade.

can we introduce them to Heinen

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Good lord this is exhausting, just every day more bullshit

But what about the Canucks?

 

[Hodgy]

I am not convinced Miller's value is going to skyrocket in the offseason as many think. He is still an expensive, older player with character questions and trade protection, and there are still only so many places that could take him on, let alone that he would agree to go to.

On top of that, they'd be getting him for one fewer playoff run than if he were traded now.

Between the team needing a shakeup on the ice, and the clear misery of the current locker room, I think holding out for a mystery deal that may never even materialize is not the best choice. I would just take what you can get now.

I think there are a couple reasons why Miller's value may increase in the summer, although I agree his value is never going to be as high as some think or or hoping for.

1) I think there is a pretty good chance that Miller has requested a trade and is a pretty significant driver of this whole thing. My theory is that he pissed off management/coaching too much which led to the benching that then led to him blowing up which led to the LOA, and I think he's mad and is angry at the organization, and its probably mutual. But anyway, the key is, that since he has a NMC, I think he's both trying to get traded and trying to dictate where he goes, and is currently only agreeing to waive for two or three teams. And if I am the Canucks, I tell him that I won't trade him except for market value, and that if none of the teams he is willing to go to are willing to pay market value, then he can remain a Canuck or add more teams he is willing to go to.

2) Its been discussed tons, but in the summer teams will have expiring contracts and can more easily make room for his contract.

Big difference between 11 and 12 haha:

View attachment 966435

I like the idea at $11.45M, but wonder if NJ just matches at that. While above that is terrifying - four years of picks from this team that we're seeing such a year over year decline from could just be Phil Kessel - Tyler Seguin part 2... and up to x4

Why would anyone want to pay 9-11 million for Luke Hughes, and why would this team want to give up 2 first round picks when they are on the precipice of potentially being a lottery team for the next couple of seasons?

I don't fully agree with Cam Robinson's theory that they may pivot to Pettersson if they can't get value for Miller. I agree there is some logic to it, and indeed, that's what happened with Luongo. But the Luongo situation was much different. Schneider hadn't been terrible for an entire year.

Pettersson has been like a 50 point player for the last calendar year, and has been publicly called out by the GM, and is making 11.6 million long term. You can ignore the Miller situation entirely and there would still be rumours that the Canucks are looking to trade him before his trade protection kicks in because he has performed so poorly,

We all know that Pettersson and Miller don't get along, and it seems to be pretty clear that Miller is a bozo and both him and the team are done with the situation. But the hilariously sad thing is that even if Miller and Petterssson were great friends, or didn't hate each other, or whatever, we'd still be here talking about whether we should trade one or both. I think the fact that we aren't talking about trading both is mostly because teams just don't trade two star players in a short period of time unless they are unequivocally tanking, which I don't think the Canucks intend to do.

It's seemingly becoming more likely they won't even have to make the choice, he may just walk in the summer. Again, though, I'd put coaching concerns at least 4th on my list of current Canucks concerns. Well behind the composition of the defense, the attitude of the star players, and the absolutely crap prospect pipeline.

I guess replacing the coach for the infinite time is the easiest and makes it actually look like you're doing something though.

For me, you can only have Tochett as a coach and Petey at 11.6 million scoring at a 50 point clip for so long. I don't really know for how long, but I know its not tenable.

32, hard-to-integrate-contract, NMC, toxic malcontent.

It's not a mystery why he doesn't have much trade value.

You mean he's not worth Heiskanen?

The key thing for this management team is not to overreact to half season samples. The entire team is playing badly. Hughes excelling is because Hughes is amazing. Judging players in this context is very, very difficult.

To be fair, it has been a calendar year for Pettersson.

 

[NYVanfan]

What an unmitigated disaster. I’m a lifelong fan and live in NYC – last year I went to all three of those games here and it was awesome. What a difference a year makes. Now I’m looking at the road swing and I think I’m not even going to buy tickets. this team has lost its heart and I’m sorry, but it starts and ends with their two supposedly best forwards. I think Miller is great when the going is good, but I think he’s toxic when it’s not. I think he’s been riding Petey ever since he signed the big ticket and Petey has responded like a snowflake. It’s a completely bad look on the leadership core of this team, outside of Hughes (poor guy.). I suppose still possible they could go on a heater and win eight out of 10, but they’ve looked like crap for too many games – I think the ship is sailed maybe the best course of action to trade all of the top guys and UFAs but Hughes. I suppose I’m saying nothing that hasn’t been said ad nauseum on this thread. I was just struck by receiving a StubHub email reminding me it’s time to buy tickets for the tri-state swing …..and what a difference a year makes…

 

[krutovsdonut]

this discussion is complete chaos. i think we need to reset and start over.

let's review what we know.

the team started off confident, shrugged off problems, mostly rallied from mistakes or tried, but now has gradually sunk into hopelessness. is back in boudreau era of inconsistent effort, dumb mistakes and glum faces.

the goaltending is not good. lankinen is better but they are trying to get demko into form on the fly. the team has zero confidence in front of demko. it is a little better with lankonen.

the defence is not good. it was under stress and basically broke when hronek went down and has not recovered.

hughes is still good but having trouble lately. seems like he wants to win.

hronek now looking better. one of few players having normal season.

miller is switched off half the time at least. has regressed to bubble season play.

pettersson shows some signs of life but refuses to focus on delivering offence. instead he does things like hipcheck large defenders in the neutral zone. emphasis seems to be on playing on his terms, not winning hockey games.

boeser appears mad and is trying and still wants to win.

blueger appears mad and is trying and still wants to win

garland competing hard but missing something compared to early part of season.

debrusk is a ghost unless he has a chance to score. looks lost.

suter is a ghost and seems like he is hurt.

hoglander is getting worse all the time.

sherwood now maybe hurt and, while playing hard when not hurt, is a limited player. still has been a bright spot.

our ahl callups are all outmatched at nhl level and can barely tread water.

juulsen and myers trying hard but making terrible mistakes. have caused numerous losses.

forbert actually okay but bring zero edge.

soucy not the steady physical presence hoped for. a little too chippy and scrambly without just hitting guys or fighting. seems a little cocky and annoying without backing it up.

management has made no moves to fix any of this. none. not even waiver pick ups. has put petterssons's name and miller's name out there as trade candidates, and now allowed discussion to mostly settle on miller. these moves are not normally how you handle these situations and seem to have done no good.

rumours around tochett walking away starting to gather steam. he looks detached. apart from one game where he used a timeout, he mostly seems very calm for a guy whose team is slowly giving up on his system. he has made very few adjustments.

aquaman is back in the news as being involved in hockey decisions. he supposedly accidentally ran into biz and they proceeded to discuss keeping miller as if it was aquaman's decision.

what am i missing?

 

[Breakers]

I know it is absolutely dreaming

but islander fans are literally certain Dobson is gone at the deadline

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

I know it is absolutely dreaming

but islander fans are literally certain Dobson is gone at the deadline

Hopefully Lou thinks the same and Allvin can pounce.

 

[Chockey22]

I know it is absolutely dreaming

but islander fans are literally certain Dobson is gone at the deadline

even before Dobon's injury, I am not sure that many Islanders fans felt Dobson would be traded. Now that he's out for weeks, there's almost no chance he'll be moved at the deadline. Maybe in the offseason?

 

[racerjoe]

For the record, the trading Pettersson thing is pure posturing. It’s clear Miller needs to be moved, and that has nothing to do with Pettersson. Maybe you still move Pettersson, but that should have nothing to do with moving miller.

 

[Lupuls Grit]

You should still go to at least one of the games. You may not have many opportunities to watch dominant Captain Quinn - he is worth the price of admission in a Canucks uniform! The Canucks have had a crappy season but it was money well spent to watch them trounce the Leafs here in Toronto!

What an unmitigated disaster. I’m a lifelong fan and live in NYC – last year I went to all three of those games here and it was awesome. What a difference a year makes. Now I’m looking at the road swing and I think I’m not even going to buy tickets. this team has lost its heart and I’m sorry, but it starts and ends with their two supposedly best forwards. I think Miller is great when the going is good, but I think he’s toxic when it’s not. I think he’s been riding Petey ever since he signed the big ticket and Petey has responded like a snowflake. It’s a completely bad look on the leadership core of this team, outside of Hughes (poor guy.). I suppose still possible they could go on a heater and win eight out of 10, but they’ve looked like crap for too many games – I think the ship is sailed maybe the best course of action to trade all of the top guys and UFAs but Hughes. I suppose I’m saying nothing that hasn’t been said ad nauseum on this thread. I was just struck by receiving a StubHub email reminding me it’s time to buy tickets for the tri-state swing …..and what a difference a year makes…

 

[Curm]

I'm just relieved the Canucks didn't sign Tony DeAngelo, and I can't believe the possibility even entered my mind, but here we are. What a timeline this is turning out to be.

 

[credulous]

I'm just relieved the Canucks didn't sign Tony DeAngelo, and I can't believe the possibility even entered my mind, but here we are. What a timeline this is turning out to be.

it's not over yet, they could still claim him on waivers

 

[bossram]

I think Jamie Dodd's rant here is mostly correct. It's why I thought there was a very narrow path for Allvin to turn the team into a contender when he took over (and I think he's largely done a solid job). It was just a tough job to begin with given the dearth of prospects, cap liabilities, etc. But it also was possible that this core...just ain't it. And there was no combination of moves that could put them over the top.

 

[wonton15]

Pettersson and Miller for Barzal and Dobson. The deal is 2 for 2.

I’m just bored and want some action now.

 

[TruGr1t]

I think Jamie Dodd's rant here is mostly correct. It's why I thought there was a very narrow path for Allvin to turn the team into a contender when he took over (and I think he's largely done a solid job). It was just a tough job to begin with given the dearth of prospects, cap liabilities, etc. But it also was possible that this core...just ain't it. And there was no combination of moves that could put them over the top.

We have agreed on this for a long time. I never really believed the "short window" concept when it was first floated due to a bunch of confounding factors mostly related to the cap (ie. recapture, trying to build largely through FA and trade, the wide range of assumptions needed for it to work etc.).

I will say, however, where we are today is totally insane and I did not see this happening. To go from the high of last year to an absolute disaster was not on my bingo card. I would have proposed more of a gradual improvement (with a notable ceiling) following by a decline forcing a rebuild. Where we are today was completely outside consideration when this strategy was initially proposed.

You could argue the strategy wasn't entirely wrong based on last year, but we've arrived at a far worse spot than I ever imagined.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

BOS would have to retain. That's non-negotiable (or should be).

The funny thing is that Zadorov still had a worse cap efficiency rating per Dom's Model going into the season, and Lindholm broke the bank!


I didn't realize he had found his stride? Here are some of the latest comments on him in their player discussion thread:

"He makes a few blatant easily correctable mistakes every game. He does not seem to care about zone defense."

"His hockey processing time is extremely slow for this level."

"His main issue is inconsistent reads defensively"

"Like others I notice he is somewhat lost defensively and makes some questionable decisions."

It is funny how that worked out. Both deals never made sense for Boston, but for whatever reason Lindholm is getting far more of the blame.

As for Zadorov. I was only basing that on the last time I checked the Bruins forum. They had moved him up to first pairing minutes due to injuries and weren't shitting him for the first time in a while. So it may have just been a good game or two.

 

[brock hughes007]

What did Perry do when Friedman challenged him? Nothing.

Zadorov is the rough equivalent of Myers on a poison pill contract. He'd be on the bottom pair here.

I'd still take him over anyone not named Hughes or Hronek. He hits and is not scared of taking on anyone and has that grit this team is lacking that Tocchet wants them to play.

 

[xtr3m]

 

[Breakers]

St Louis interested

Imagine getting Lindstein from them

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I think Jamie Dodd's rant here is mostly correct. It's why I thought there was a very narrow path for Allvin to turn the team into a contender when he took over (and I think he's largely done a solid job). It was just a tough job to begin with given the dearth of prospects, cap liabilities, etc. But it also was possible that this core...just ain't it. And there was no combination of moves that could put them over the top.

My rebuttal to his rant on losing the Miller trade. Right now, the Rangers want a sweetener on top of essentially offering us scrap. So if we just sucked it up and moved him, we're losing Sasson/Ratu or adding another 1-2 to the 5.4M of dead cap next season. All for the privilege of making the Rangers better.

Waiting until the summer possibly opens the door to offers that don't completely screw us over. They probably won't be good, but it's better than anything New York wants to do. At least right now.