Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Rumour Has It

[bossram]

I don't like the NYR because of the significant risk in Chytil and the rumblings about them wanting retention and draft protection.

Same, I'd rather take extra value on the pick/prospect side, and shop for something better down the road. Retention in a deal like that, and conditions on the pick, should just be off the table unless it's quite rich.

Chytil's injury risk is definitely worrisome. But I am personally high on the player.

Agreed with both of you on retention issues. I think a "final" deal with the Rangers would not include retention, I don't see Allvin caving on that.

The pick protection is a non-factor to me. If you trade Miller to a true contender, the pick would be late 20s. Even if NYR insisted on like top-10 protection, you could still end up with a pick in the teens. That's a better selection than trading him to like Dallas or Carolina.

While I agree Miller won't get the value he should, what the Rangers offered is just insultingly low.

Chytil is 25, can't stay healthy and hasn't managed to be anything more than a middle six forward. He's not bad per se, but hardly a "main" piece. Lindgren is near negative value. UFA with abysmal analytics this season. Yes, he's been better in the past, but he's our version of Hoglander. "Include him if you want, but he's worth nothing."

The fact they wanted us to retain on top of that is laughable.

We need one of Schneider or KAM coming back.

I don't think it's insultingly low. Miller has a ton of value detractors (will be 32 soon, NMC, hard-to-integrate contract, and he's a known toxic malcontent).

@Vector's research showed what a roughly comparable trade would be and it's not really different.

 

[credulous]

Like Vector said, Miller is also a substantially better player than Hertl. So that kind of evens it out.

i dunno, i think the off ice stuff makes them relatively equal

 

[Nick Lang]

I don't think he's getting premium first-line value in relation to his production, but at the same time Miller's "value" is directly correlated to the Canucks ask. They have been trying to trade him for effectively a younger 1/2C (or probably a top-four D) plus spare parts. As has become exceptionally obvious, this is not a good strategy and these 1-for-1 hockey trades are going the way of the Dodo bird in a cap system wherein mid-20s, controlled players are basically the premium asset on the market. Contenders interested in Miller will simply not make this deal, and even teams in the upper trajectory of a rebuild will not want to part with such players who are likely part of their core.

Your prime audience is mature teams looking to add the piece that puts them over the top over the next 2-3 years. These teams also, obviously, do not want to give up younger parts of their core because that defeats the purpose of the trade for them, but will be more incentivized to make more future-rich offers in a bid to "win now".

If you really want to realize Miller's value you need to do it under conditions that make sense, otherwise you're shooting yourself in the foot.

I would argue, if you really want to see Miller's value, trade him around the deadline for a futures package, maybe with a bit of retention depending on the return. Especially if all you want to do is "get rid of him".

Yeah, this I agree on a lot. Teams attitudes will change as they near the post season and the playoff hype gets more tangible. At that point depending on what else is available he starts to look like he's a pretty tempting option, especially if you're only giving up futures. Even if they are high grade prospects the here and now hope/lure in hockey and all sport is very real.

Oh yeah, I agree with @bossram that that retention if pretty iffy. That's a long time and they have been very hesitant in the past.

 

[Orr4Norris]

I feel like we will all be blindsided and Petey to NYI for Barzal +? will be announced…

Kinda like when they suddenly pivoted from signing Bo to signing Miller.

 

[Vector]

i dunno, i think the off ice stuff makes them relatively equal

I don't think any of the off-ice stuff actually matters that much. There's risk but he's extremely highly thought of by pretty much every playoff team. Was an immediate, no-debate, selection to Team USA. It lowers his value due to posturing but teams don't actually care when it comes down to it.

 

[credulous]

I don't think any of the off-ice stuff actually matters that much. There's risk but he's extremely highly thought of by pretty much every playoff team. Was an immediate, no-debate, selection to Team USA. It lowers his value due to posturing but teams don't actually care when it comes down to it.

this isn't true at all. there's definitely teams that just won't touch him

 

[theguardianII]

It is not even necessarily rebuilding, it's maximizing asset value. You absolutely reserve the right to take said futures and use them to retool the roster in the summer around Hughes and a different "core" group. Trading Miller, or Boeser, for futures today does not even mean you are rebuilding. It is just adjusting cap optionality and giving you a larger war chest to make moves.

Frankly, it seems fairly obvious to me the best course of action at this point is to basically "sell" at the deadline, and use those assets to retool during the summer and especially around the draft.

I think Allvin thinks players this good will never happen again. In doing that he isn't watching this team now that he still thinks is good. His high priced players must be good right? Just because they have big pay checks. Forget the actual point productions.
Would a Necas getting 50 pts be such a bad thing? That more than anyone but Hughes on this team or Lafreniere with 28pts that much worse than Petterron's 32pts?

Yes they can start in the summer to build around Hughes but I think they can use the added pressures or making the playoffs for some teams and pressure to make sure an impact player doesn't go to a rival before teams have sorted themselves out will get better returns.

If they do make those players go away even with the 5.5 million they pay to other players to play against them the added cap space will let them really compete for really good FAs or use it to take on a bad contract plus, plus, plsu

 

[wonton15]

Yeah, the offers are definitely much lower than desired and it’s not too surprising. I think management is trying to do JT a solid and trade him to NYR or Carolina which doesn’t help as they’re already lowballing us.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Ryan Dixon weighing in:

Five potential landing spots for Canucks star J.T. Miller

J.T. Miller's departure from the Canucks feels more like a when than an if, and the market is sure to be robust. Ryan Dixon examines some of the potential landing spots for the difference-maker.

www.sportsnet.ca

The usual suspects:

• Rangers
• Canes
• Devils
• Stars
• Blue Jackets

I still like the Devils if they really come to the table.

 

[Bgav]

I feel like we will all be blindsided and Petey to NYI for Barzal +? will be announced…

Kinda like when they suddenly pivoted from signing Bo to signing Miller.

After letting teams talk to JT. Would look awful on this management team. They made their decision, keeping a 32 year old player with problems with more then one player is quite the choice.

 

[vancityluongo]

no one has really mentioned them as a possibility, but wonder if washington could be persuaded in any way to enter the process

they have a bunch of u25 assets - mcmichael is probably out of the question, but vector's fav prospect iorio would be a nice center piece as a return. they also have surplus picks, and a real incentive to go all in with ovi, and with guys like chychrun and thompson heading into UFA and needing raises if they're to stay.

miller makes them the hands down best team in east this season, and trading for him keeps him away from their biggest divisional competitors in nj, carolina, and the rangers (possibly columbus too).

without looking too deep into it, the only issue i could see is them figuring out how to fit miller going forward and who they'd send back this season to fit him.

 

[Vector]

this isn't true at all. there's definitely teams that just won't touch him

Hurricanes, Rangers, Stars, Devils, Golden Knights, etc. all have inquired. At least two and definitely more have permission to talk to his agent. All it takes is two or three teams not to care.

 

[ChilliBilly]

I would like it if we get a protected 1st from someone, we tell them if they keep the pick, we get the 1st next year unprotected and a 3rd this year as well. It increases the value of a protected 1st to near the value of an unprotected 1st.

 

[arttk]

If we get ripped off I rather we get ripped off by the Canes than the Rangers.

 

[ChilliBilly]

Would anyone do BB Miller and Hronek to NJ for the Hughes brothers?

 

[sting101]

i feel like some people are forgetting what they got with they got with the Horvat trade and what they did with the assets they got back.

can do a lot with capspace and a pick that would currently be in the top 10.

You mean like a overpaid 2/3 D and a million for Forbort

 

[credulous]

Hurricanes, Rangers, Stars, Devils, Golden Knights, etc. all have inquired. At least two and definitely more have permission to talk to his agent. All it takes is two or three teams not to care.

i don't think the devils or knights will touch him, but we'll see

 

[Vector]

Would anyone do BB Miller and Hronek to NJ for the Hughes brothers?

The Devils wouldn't.

 

[Bgav]

Would anyone do BB Miller and Hronek to NJ for the Hughes brothers?

Why would the devils do that lol

 

[sting101]

I like how some of you equate picks to being able to reload. Reload for what?

Boeser UFA Demko Garland 1yr Hughes 2 yrs

So far the 3 of the 4 long term commits are a disaster

Unless by reload you mean tear it down and rebuild

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Why would the devils do that lol

Same reason why they would do Timo Meier, Dougie Hamilton, and Ondrej Palat for Quinn Hughes and Tom Willander.

To totally bend the other team over.

 

[wonton15]

Would anyone do BB Miller and Hronek to NJ for the Hughes brothers?

Doesn’t even get you one Hughes brother, cap aside lol

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Hurricanes, Rangers, Stars, Devils, Golden Knights, etc. all have inquired. At least two and definitely more have permission to talk to his agent. All it takes is two or three teams not to care.

If it takes a strong leadership group/coaching staff/locker room to keep JTM in line, as rumored, then I don't really see the Stars nor Devils as interested parties. Teams with younger talents as their core (NJ, Dal, CBJ) probably wouldn't want to risk putting their young kids through what Petey had (allegedly) gone through. At least, if I am the GM, I wouldn't want to take that risk, you don't want your Jack Hughes/Hischier, Robertson/Johnston, Fantilli/KJ (potentially) to go from 100 pts players to 50 pts players like it happened to Petey.

 

[Vector]

If it takes a strong leadership group/coaching staff/locker room to keep JTM in line, as rumored, then I don't really see the Stars nor Devils as interested parties. Teams with younger talents as their core (NJ, Dal, CBJ) probably wouldn't want to risk putting their young kids through what Petey had (allegedly) gone through. At least, if I am the GM, I wouldn't want to take that risk, you don't want your Jack Hughes/Hischier, Robertson/Johnston, Fantilli/KJ (potentially) to go from 100 pts players to 50 pts players like it happened to Petey.

JT Miller didn't cause Pettersson to slow down and become a 50 point player. That's a ridiculous thing to say.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

The most ideal partner is CBJ.

Has always made the most sense for Van whether it be trading JT or EP.

Fantastic young NHL players, NHL ready prospects, draft capital and cap space.

There's zero issue around retention and goes to a team that won't "bite you in the ass" in the future.

They could absolutely use someone like JT to take the next step with their young core.

Real question is how they view him. Is it positively or negatively?

I think if it's before the season, it's positively. Now? Very hard to say.

He could conceivably be viewed as someone who may do more harm than good.