Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | It's All Gone Pete Tong

[TruGr1t]

There is no winning a trade with Miller or Pettersson right now.

I doubt they will. Based on what Sat said they're going to ride it out and probably look at it in the summer. I'd suspect they're just taking the temperature of the market right now, and would only jump if someone blows their socks off. It also sounds like really only Miller is on the market.

I'd say this is further reinforced by the fact it looks like the club just had IMac publish a sympathetic Pettersson article. I can't believe Sat and IMac coming out with basically Pettersson defenses on the same day is coincidental.

 

[Hodgy]

i'll concede both those but i still think it was a bad trade for a 1c on an expiring contract at the deadline

Part of it, though, was a gamble on how NYI would do, and of course, they ended up doing pretty well and the pick was later than it could have been.

 

[credulous]

Part of it, though, was a gamble on how NYI would do, and of course, they ended up doing pretty well and the pick was later than it could have been.

that hope was pure fantasy tho. the islanders would have had to drop to 21st in the league (or worse) AND opted to keep the pick AND done worse the following season for the canucks to have benefitted

 

[bossram]

And I suppose you feel quite smart when you post advanced stats from easily accessible websites on here showing players’ performances with and without Hughes. Not to mention that the stats have been posted ad nauseum on here and everyone already knows how bad everyone plays without Hughes.

Of course it’s hilariously ironic that you are happy “digging” into the context of a players performance by looking at the advanced stats, and then concluding it’s impressive all the while ignoring perhaps the most crucial aspect of that context: cap hit. But I think you understand this all so I’m not sure why your post was so overly defensive.

The defensive one is you. I wasn't replying to you about Petey's scoring chance splits, yet you jump in unprompted with a snarky comment. If you're going to complain about people giving it to you, don't initiate it. Pathetic.

I mean, yes, I am looking at some data that is publicly available (some is not, I subscribe/pay for it). Maybe you should try consulting more of these free resources so you wouldn't get so many basic facts wrong. Apparently you didn't (and still don't) know that Petey isn't really bad without Hughes.

 

[ChilliBilly]

Something has obviously changed in the past 6 months or so, based on the leaks. It seems the situation has become untenable for one, or both, this season.

What has obviously changed is that they are sucking compared to last year. A lot of that has been due to injuries etc. But winning stops a lot of problems from overflowing.

 

[Quinning]

Why would they do that though? The whole point of deferring a year of NMC is to give them an out. Otherwise you might as well give him the NMC right away, or at least make it an NTC that converts to an NMC after the first year.

 

[Diablo2020]

Why would they do that though? The whole point of deferring a year of NMC is to give them an out. Otherwise you might as well give him the NMC right away, or at least make it an NTC that converts to an NMC after the first year.

I agree that was stupid but he wasnt eligible his first year I believe it was 1 RFA year and 7 UFA years as a 8 yr deal.

 

[credulous]

Why would they do that though? The whole point of deferring a year of NMC is to give them an out. Otherwise you might as well give him the NMC right away, or at least make it an NTC that converts to an NMC after the first year.

they didn't defer it. he wasn't eligible for one under the cba

 

[Quinning]

they didn't defer it. he wasn't eligible for one under the cba

Got it.

IMO with this news, if it's accurate, we're going to see Miller traded or neither of them. I don't see them breaking something like that as it will piss off the current players and scare others away from signing here. You can't do shit like that as a manager and expect to get away with it.

 

[sting101]

In a short one-on-one interview Sunday, Pettersson said he was not upset by Allvin’s comments.

“I know I can do better,” Pettersson said. “I will be the first one to say it, and I never think things will get easier.
“I haven't had the start (to the season) that I wanted to. At the end of the day, I have expectations from the club, and obviously, I haven't met them yet. But, I mean, it doesn't matter what people say. I know what I can do, and that's what I'm focussing on doing.”

“I'm aware of it, I've heard it,” Pettersson told us. “But then it's like, can I control it? No. So that's where I'm at. I'm trying not to think about it. But I'm sure it will go away if I play better and if we win.”
Does he want to remain with the Canucks?
“Yeah, of course,” he said. “That's why I signed here. Of course.”

“I'm always trying to be the best player I can be every game,” Pettersson said. “Some games are going to be better than others (but) every day is a new day and now that I'm back playing, I'm excited.
“I'm trying to not live in the past. Obviously, I wish I had played a lot better. I wished I played a lot of games better. But I've tried to learn to not play too much in the past and just try to focus on what I can do better. What's happened in the past and my play doesn't matter; I'm just trying to look forward to what's ahead.”

Canucks' Pettersson keeping focus on turning season around amid trade noise

As Elias Pettersson prepares to make his return to the lineup, the Vancouver Canucks forward addressed the ongoing tension around his struggles.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[TruGr1t]

Got it.

IMO with this news, if it's accurate, we're going to see Miller traded or neither of them. I don't see them breaking something like that as it will piss off the current players and scare others away from signing here. You can't do shit like that as a manager and expect to get away with it.

I think you can say with a fair bit of confidence that Miller is indeed getting traded at some point now.

 

[bossram]

My friend the values are all over the place its hard for me to lay out a plan wherein Vancouver trades their core 4 without knowing whats actually available out there.

But in my fantasy land,

I'd give Pius Suter 3x3 and Lankinen 5x4.

Id trade Miller for Sillinger and picks
Id trade Petey for McTavish, a D and picks
Id trade Demmer for Talbot and picks
Id trade Boeser half retained for a ELC D


I'd use that 30 mill we opened and throw 14 each at Marner and Rantanen.

If theyre already resigned or dont like Van, id do what someone else said earlier and try to pry loose a Cirelli or Wild Bill from a cap strapped team.

If there is no 2025 version of the original JT Miller trade available this offseason, id then go bargain bin shopping and try for Josh Norris types.

One way or another id aquire young NHL centerman, some ELC defenders, and open capspace to do whatever becomes available around the league.

Maybe we brick on everything and I end up with Norris #1, McTavish/Sillinger #2, Suter #3 and Blueger #4 and we're forever searching for centers.

Hopefully those trades above gave us a warchest to chase the next Necas, Cozens, Brady Tkachuk that becomes available.

Either way, im not tying the cart to the core above who is stale and signed or needing to be signed longterm.

Kudos to finally putting together some actual proposals.

IMO, the team assembled after those trades is just not good. It is not a contender, nor close to one, as is your goal.

Neither Rantanen nor Marner are going to look at that roster, in a high-tax, high-scrutiny jurisdiction, and are going to want to come here.

 

[ManVanFan]

 

[bossram]

I doubt they will. Based on what Sat said they're going to ride it out and probably look at it in the summer. I'd suspect they're just taking the temperature of the market right now, and would only jump if someone blows their socks off. It also sounds like really only Miller is on the market.

I'd say this is further reinforced by the fact it looks like the club just had IMac publish a sympathetic Pettersson article. I can't believe Sat and IMac coming out with basically Pettersson defenses on the same day is coincidental.

Yep. Sat and Imac in particular are the club's water carriers. If it's coming from Imac, it is the org's official party line and what they want out in public.

Good. Choosing Petey over Miller is the correct call.

 

[TruGr1t]

Yep. Sat and Imac in particular are the club's water carriers. If it's coming from Imac, it is the org's official party line and what they want out in public.

Good. Choosing Petey over Miller is the correct call.

Agreed, I’m relieved to hear both things. One, they are hanging with Pettersson. And two, they are basically telling these guys to cool their jets and they’ll deal with it in the summer.

My main fear is actually they do some dumb shit to try and salvage this season.

 

[ChilliBilly]

I think you can say with a fair bit of confidence that Miller is indeed getting traded at some point now.

Sadly, there is some chatter that Miller has said that he will only waive for the Rangers. That will really limit the Canucks options, if true ...

 

[Quinning]

I think you can say with a fair bit of confidence that Miller is indeed getting traded at some point now.

Not only that, I'd bet that Allvin was told he went too far in the media after his comments the other day, and the Sat update plus iMac article is a form of internal damage control. They need to focus on repairing their relationship with this player and confirm he is a big part of the team long term. What they've done recently has been reckless at best and dangerous at worst.

 

[sting101]

i'll concede both those but i still think it was a bad trade for a 1c on an expiring contract at the deadline

Some other important distinctions at the time Miller couldn't even fetch Braeden Schneider as a primary return due to his pending UFA status and being 2 yrs older and having some term and a shorter peak window that lessened his value.

Horvat's peak was a 61 pt season and had averaged 58pts per 82 excluding that season and his first 2 as a Canuck

Horvat is a bottom tier #1. A #2 on a contender

 

[kanucks25]

Does he want to remain with the Canucks?
“Yeah, of course,” he said. “That's why I signed here. Of course.”

 

[Hodgy]

The defensive one is you. I wasn't replying to you about Petey's scoring chance splits, yet you jump in unprompted with a snarky comment.

How was my comment snarky? Do you have a problem evaluating a player’s performance in the context of a player’s cap hit? My point was that Petey’s performance without Hughes actually isn’t that impressive when you consider he has the fifth highest cap hit in the league….and that’s a fair and relevant comment. Not sure why you got so defensive.

If you're going to complain about people giving it to you, don't initiate it. Pathetic.

Am I complaining? I was just questioning through sarcasm why you thought your contribution was so valuable and mine so invaluable. Seemed like arrogance to me.

I mean, yes, I am looking at some data that is publicly available (some is not, I subscribe/pay for it). Maybe you should try consulting more of these free resources so you wouldn't get so many basic facts wrong.

I have consulted the free resources before. In fact, I’ve been using advanced stats for over a decade. I remember participating in a mock salary arbitration with Gillis and Gilman back in the day and one of them at that time even stated that my arguments were overly reliant on advanced statistics!

But again, one doesn’t even need to consult any of the free websites to see the with Hughes and without Hughes splits, because again, these have been posted ad nauseum on here (and for good reason). Basically anyone whose been following this subforum with any detail knows these stats.

Apparently you didn't (and still don't) know that Petey isn't really bad without Hughes.

This just isn’t true.

 

[Quinning]

Sadly, there is some chatter that Miller has said that he will only waive for the Rangers. That will really limit the Canucks options, if true ...

NMCs are bad.

Although, Drury is a f***ing awful GM, so there's a good chance we don't get completely hosed because he really wants his guy. It's not like we're dealing with Yzerman here.

 

[TruGr1t]

NMCs are bad.

Although, Drury is a f***ing awful GM, so there's a good chance we don't get completely hosed because he really wants his guy. It's not like we're dealing with Yzerman here.

My other thought, aside from waiting until the summer, is to sell Miller at the deadline to someone. I would hope they'd be willing to take a futures package if it was sufficient enough. I don't see how relying on trade or the free agent market is any worse than taking a subpar return for Miller in a bid to get a replacement.

 

[Quinning]

Agreed, I’m relieved to hear both things. One, they are hanging with Pettersson. And two, they are basically telling these guys to cool their jets and they’ll deal with it in the summer.

My main fear is actually they do some dumb shit to try and salvage this season.

Buying at this point in any capacity is a terrible idea and will likely result in disaster. This team is about 4 or 5 pieces away from contending and they're dealing with awful injury luck, not to mention a locker room crisis. Best thing to do is to write this season off, trade their UFAs and low cost players for assets (it's a sellers market) bring up some kids, and focus on competing next year after making trades/good signings in the summer.