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Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | It's All Gone Pete Tong

Peen said:
I don't touch Robertson with a ten foot pole.. never been enamoured with him. If people in this market can't stomach EP, wait til they see Robertson
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Robertson is not someone I'd be interested in. Given he's not a centre, Canucks probably don't view him as a replacement either. Hintz, though, he'd be an interesting bet. Hintz has a full NMC, though.
 
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bossram said:
I mean, I don't know. Your "plan" (insofar as anyone can call it that) is not much more than "trade Petey and Miller and magically be a better team after". You don't have any realistic proposals that improve the team in that scenario.

And Norris is a vastly inferior player. If you want to disagree, feel free. But he is.
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I mean, we've iced Juulsen, Desharnais, Brisebois, Brannstrom, Forbort, Di Guiseppe and Sasson in the last couple games.

Hogs hasnt scored in forever.

I can think of 8 different ways we could upgrade and maybe make this team better yeah.

Im not sure of the exact value in a Pettersson or Miller or Boeser or Demko trade and I understand once we trade one, we're immedietly searching for that player again.

Thats fine.

I believe we could chop up all 4 and come out a better team, yes.

Norris was just one quick example I wanted to show of a player on pace for 25+ who takes faceoffs and happens to be Quinns bestie.

He'd need some support being one of our top centers but hes not some scrub like you seem to think he is.
 
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Bleach Clean said:
I'm not sure how aware Miller is of his own limitations? Or his play relative to Pettersson? I think Tocchet has exacerbated the issue by continuing to deploy Miller with Hughes. Flip this around and he gets humbled.

Barring a trade request, I keep both of them though. In season, there's not a lot you can do. In the offseason, Miller opens up his NTC and you resolve it then. For now, no movement.

Here I thought I was on an island when advocating for the slow re-tool? Bossram with the correct call again. At the time, it was a choice between what they chose to do and a full rebuild, and nothing else... Black and white. Everything to the contrary was 'delusional'. Yeah, not the case at all.

That's an astute point about Allvin. His competence grants us a rare glimpse into assessing the probability of that quick re-tool based upon what they had (without the variable of incompetent management).
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A lot of us wanted the slow re-tool. I don't remember anyone wanting a rebuild (EP+Hughes traded). The "compete immediately" crowd was very loud but they weren't actually arguing against people who wanted to rebuild, just against people who believed a turnaround in less than two years was impossible so we should act according to that timeline.

Allvin's plan is crumbling around his inability to fix the d. I agree with you that we should keep both JT/EP unless forced to move one.

Other than the weirdness around JT, I think the entire conversation around our forwards is nonsense and we're getting victimized by the complete lack of a 2nd pairing and injuries.

Hughes is incredible but even so, there shouldn't be a gap of contender while he's on the ice, bottom feeder when he's not, it's a massively exaggerated deficit because of how bad the d is and it's a marked failure by PA that we're 3 years into his tenure with a pile of futures and buyouts used up and still only have two legitimate top 4 d.
 
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mriswith said:
A lot of us wanted the slow re-tool. I don't remember anyone wanting a rebuild (EP+Hughes traded). The "compete immediately" crowd was very loud but they weren't actually arguing against people who wanted to rebuild, just against people who believed a turnaround in less than two years was impossible so we should act according to that timeline.

Allvin's plan is crumbling around his inability to fix the d. I agree with you that we should keep both JT/EP unless forced to move one.

Other than the weirdness around JT, I think the entire conversation around our forwards is nonsense and we're getting victimized by the complete lack of a 2nd pairing and injuries.

Hughes is incredible but even so, there shouldn't be a gap of contender while he's on the ice, bottom feeder when he's not, it's a massively exaggerated deficit because of how bad the d is and it's a marked failure by PA that we're 3 years into his tenure with a pile of futures and buyouts used up and still only have two legitimate top 4 d.
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Don't you remember those who were livid we hired Tocchet, livid we traded for Hronek, etc etc because they wanted us to absolutely bottom out?
Hell, there was a point where the patron saint of floor hockey takes, Thomas Drance, was calling for all of that.
 
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some people (myself included) wanted some combination of miller, horvat and kuzmenko moved for futures and were in favour of trying to stockpile assets and cap space for later moves but i don't think anyone really was for a scorched earth rebuild where pettersson and hughes (and demko altho in retrospect that probably would have been a good move) were moved

some people catastrophized that pettersson and hughes would both immediately demand trades if they made those kinds of moves though
 
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Posted this in the Pettersson thread:

Saw trade proposal on Facebook of alll places. NYI - we get Noah Dobson Danny Nelson and a 1st for EP.

Highly amused.
 
bossram said:
His results are entirely propped up by Quinn Hughes.

JT Miller scoring chance percentage w/ Hughes: 62%
JT MIller w/o Hughes: 38%

He's horrible in the minutes Quinn isn't strapped to him.
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This is an indictment of how bad the defense is beyond Hughes/Hronek, not JT Miller....
 
mriswith said:
A lot of us wanted the slow re-tool. I don't remember anyone wanting a rebuild (EP+Hughes traded). The "compete immediately" crowd was very loud but they weren't actually arguing against people who wanted to rebuild, just against people who believed a turnaround in less than two years was impossible so we should act according to that timeline.

Allvin's plan is crumbling around his inability to fix the d. I agree with you that we should keep both JT/EP unless forced to move one.

Other than the weirdness around JT, I think the entire conversation around our forwards is nonsense and we're getting victimized by the complete lack of a 2nd pairing and injuries.

Hughes is incredible but even so, there shouldn't be a gap of contender while he's on the ice, bottom feeder when he's not, it's a massively exaggerated deficit because of how bad the d is and it's a marked failure by PA that we're 3 years into his tenure with a pile of futures and buyouts used up and still only have two legitimate top 4 d.
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Rutherford still going for it the same way Benning was. 18 out of 21 allotted picks in 3 drafts. 2 first round picks in 3 years and no second round picks.
 
rypper said:
Perpetual rebuild of course.
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I was fully on board with a stripped down rebuild when they first brought in JR/PA and was quite annoyed when they went the other direction...but it had worked out well and the suggestions of a rebuild now are stupid...we have all the requisite core pieces to have a contending team, we have good goaltending, we have a Norris level defenseman, 2 top quality centers, some good forward depth and a reasonable pipeline of prospects...we're 1 top 4 defenseman and maybe 1 scoring winger away from really being a force to be reckoned with...yet we're quibbling over using draft picks and equating it to the disastrous Benning regime? I mean I've got a morbid curiosity about seeing how this whole Miller/EP thing plays out and what kind of returns we could get, but I'd much rather see this move forward with them both than tearing it up and starting over, spend a few assets to get the pieces we actually need and keep pushing to be a contender.
 
Another JTM to the Rangers proposal:

To Rangers: JT Miller, Forbort
To Canucks: K’Andre Miller, Ryan Lindgren and NYR 2026 1st

The thinking is that we acquire a young LHS RFA dman on the cheap, an expiring contract and a 1st that we can parlay into a younger 2C. Drury gets his guy, bets on a quick turnaround and he can deal Zib separately.

Some similarities to Horvat trade with K’AM having upside like Raty, Lindgren as a cap dump and the 1st as a potentially high upside mystery box with appeal to a team with center men and a need for draft capital.

Thoughts?
 
Rutherford and Allvin usually try to keep transactions and activities tight to their chest.

Then things come out of nowhere.

But in the cases where they were out in the open (Kuz) or vocal (Beaudrou) it was clear it was just a matter of time before they moved on.

Personally, I think this will be the case with EP. They have been very vocal about his need to step up (atleast in their view) and there just doesn’t seem to be an alignment on how to be a “professional”.

I’d be shocked if he’s not moved.
 
Diversification said:
Another JTM to the Rangers proposal:

To Rangers: JT Miller, Forbort
To Canucks: K’Andre Miller, Ryan Lindgren and NYR 2026 1st

The thinking is that we acquire a young LHS RFA dman on the cheap, an expiring contract and a 1st that we can parlay into a younger 2C. Drury gets his guy, bets on a quick turnaround and he can deal Zib separately.

Some similarities to Horvat trade with K’AM having upside like Raty, Lindgren as a cap dump and the 1st as a potentially high upside mystery box with appeal to a team with center men and a need for draft capital.

Thoughts?
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I think given his age and name value, KAM carries enough value to make this trade even but it'd be an extremely risky trade.

Rangers fans hate Lindgren more than Canucks fans hate Myers, he's probably not even an upgrade on Soucy. And over the last 1.5 seasons KAM has looked like he's becoming the next Myers: incredible physical tools but not physical enough for his size and perhaps doesn't have the hockey IQ to legitimately hold down a top-4 pairing.

Maybe with better coaching / in a better system he can flourish, I haven't watched him closely enough to know that unfortunately. I think you'd get a lot of mixed reviews from Rangers fans - some wanting to sell high on him before other teams find out and others wanting to stick it out with him because of his potential.

And then there's the question of his next contract as he's an upcoming RFA this summer with 2 years of control left before UFA.
 
From what is being leaked at this stage, I think the only common sense conclusion is that one of Miller or Pettersson (I would wager it's Pettersson) has now said the situation is untenable, and though there may not be a firm trade request, someone has said they will not continue with the status quo. Basically, even if management wants to keep both ... their hand may be being forced on some level.

 
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Canucker said:
What are you suggesting they should be doing instead? Hording picks? Not supporting the team on the ice?
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Why does it have to be one or the other? People talk about Yzerman's time in TB, what I liked most was the in and out of assets. 5 times since 2010 draft that they have 6 picks or less and once out of that with 5 picks. 8 times since 2010 draft has Van had 6 picks or less. 4 times with 5 picks only.

They were much better at drafting but they also had a lot more chances.
 
Diversification said:
Another JTM to the Rangers proposal:

To Rangers: JT Miller, Forbort
To Canucks: K’Andre Miller, Ryan Lindgren and NYR 2026 1st

The thinking is that we acquire a young LHS RFA dman on the cheap, an expiring contract and a 1st that we can parlay into a younger 2C. Drury gets his guy, bets on a quick turnaround and he can deal Zib separately.

Some similarities to Horvat trade with K’AM having upside like Raty, Lindgren as a cap dump and the 1st as a potentially high upside mystery box with appeal to a team with center men and a need for draft capital.

Thoughts?
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My hope is that we don't need to trade either, but if thats not possible, my hope is that there are better options than what the New York Rangers have to offer...if KAM is the best we can do, then I guess...certainly wouldn't feel good about it, KAM seems like another Myers to me, a tree who can skate but is defensively suspect....Lindgren is not anything I'd be interested in keeping around and a 1st would be mid range but welcome...not particularly enthused at the deal, but wouldn't be surprised if we were looking at a deal like that.
 
TruGr1t said:
From what is being leaked at this stage, I think the only common sense conclusion is that one of Miller or Pettersson (I would wager it's Pettersson) has now said the situation is untenable, and though there may not be a firm trade request, someone has said they will not continue with the status quo. Basically, even if management wants to keep both ... their hand may being forced on some level.

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That's the scenario I imagine too. Pettersson has probably said something along the lines of "either he goes or I do."

Which is an interesting tactic to play when you are still 6-months shy of your NMC and haven't been playing great since signing your big extension.
 
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TruGr1t said:
From what is being leaked at this stage, I think the only common sense conclusion is that one of Miller or Pettersson (I would wager it's Pettersson) has now said the situation is untenable, and though there may not be a firm trade request, someone has said they will not continue with the status quo. Basically, even if management wants to keep both ... their hand may be being forced on some level.

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Gets within 1 game of a WCF.

"Let's just piss away a season by hating other."

Only could happen to this franchise.
 
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