Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | It's All Gone Pete Tong

[bossram]

You’re speaking very authoritatively on something you are speculating about.

It's hardly speculation, given what we've found out since the leave of absence.

It would put the whole "How dare you question a player taking to sort out his personal affairs?!? We support JT and his family on his brave decision and the team's thoughts are with him. No more questions to be taken on the matter." into a whole new light though wouldn't it?

The club wouldn't allow any questions about it, yet wouldn't even say something as vague as a "personal issue" or "personal leave" that we've seen other teams announce on rare occasions.

Seems kinda obvious to me it's related to team conduct.

 

[BlueGoose27]

I really wish Ottawa was still sucking. I would feel much more comfortable with Pettersson straight across for B.Tkachuk. Just a straight up hockey trade. Tkachuk never takes a shift off and acquiring him would improve our chances of keeping Captain Canuck around since that's one of Hughes best friends.

They’ve lost 4 out of last 5…Ullmark is out, not sure on return yet. They start falling off, the BT rumors will start again…there’s still hope lol

 

[JT Milker]

It's hardly speculation, given what we've found out since the leave of absence.

The club wouldn't allow any questions about it, yet wouldn't even say something as vague as a "personal issue" or "personal leave" that we've seen other teams announce on rare occasions.

Seems kinda obvious to me it's related to team conduct.

It is definitely speculation.

 

[bossram]

I really wish Ottawa was still sucking. I would feel much more comfortable with Pettersson straight across for B.Tkachuk. Just a straight up hockey trade. Tkachuk never takes a shift off and acquiring him would improve our chances of keeping Captain Canuck around since that's one of Hughes best friends.

You really haven't seen much of Brady Tkachuk.

He's got a lot of lazy habits too and terrible DZ instincts.

 

[Hodgy]

It's hardly speculation, given what we've found out since the leave of absence.

The club wouldn't allow any questions about it, yet wouldn't even say something as vague as a "personal issue" or "personal leave" that we've seen other teams announce on rare occasions.

Seems kinda obvious to me it's related to team conduct.

It’s 100% speculation even if I tend to agree and even if there is some evidence leading credence to the speculation.

 

[LemonSauceD]

JT being put on leave by management would’ve for sure been leaked to Dhali.

 

[PavelBure10]

You really haven't seen much of Brady Tkachuk.

He's got a lot of lazy habits too and terrible DZ instincts.

You get Brady in the playoffs and I guarantee he becomes a freight train that would be hard to contain. I don't think there would be many disappearing acts. You win cups with these types of players.

 

[Vector]

It’s 100% speculation even if I tend to agree and even if there is some evidence leading credence to the speculation.

Yes, this is exactly my point.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

I don’t think it’ll happen nor do I think he’s a Tocchet player, but I like Arthur Kaliyev and wouldn’t mind us claiming him to give him a shot.

 

[Diversification]

JT being put on leave by management would’ve for sure been leaked to Dhali.

It would if JT was not okay to be put on leave. Then, yes, it would leak to the agent and then to Dhali. But if there was a precipitating incident that caused JT some remorse, it would be embarrassing all around and the cone of silence would stay in place.

That said, I agree this is all speculation and I empathize with @Vector if he doesn't feel comfortable keeping this discussion going.

 

[LemonSauceD]

It’s 100% speculation even if I tend to agree and even if there is some evidence leading credence to the speculation.

i do believe management likely offered him it. Highly doubt they forced him to it though. But I mean shit. Doesn’t seem like it’s done much of anything.

 

[Vector]

That said, I agree this is all speculation and I empathize with @Vector if he doesn't feel comfortable keeping this discussion going.

Thank you, and yes we are dangerously close to having the entire discussion shut down by forces beyond my control. There is an extremely fine line when discussing this stuff and, in my opinion, we're teetering on the wrong side of it. If I feel that way then that probably means we're actually on the wrong side of it.

 

[Diablo2020]

If you trade Petey and Miller and Demko and Boeser, there is 0% chance Quinn is sticking around long-term. That is a full rebuild. You may as well trade Quinn at that point too. That is the direction you're going.

Lekk isn't going to step in and fill Boeser's shoes. If you trade Petey, you're getting an Eichel-esque package back - which will ensure the club remains in the mediocre zone. There is zero path to contention there. Even if you get a "McTavish type" back, that calibre player is not going to be the 1C of a contender. That calibre of player is inferior to what Petey is right now, and faaaaaar inferior to what we've seen historically from Petey. Zero path to contention there either. You aren't getting a "haul" for Miller either. The best case would be clearing his cap hit for positive value.

Top UFAs aren't going to sign in VAN when they look at the roster after all the projected trades you want to make. It's laughable you think Rantanen would come here after that.

Quinn and his contract 3 years from now is the least of my concerns. Especially if the dude has to babysit these forwards for the next couple.

Heck if we dont do something NOW, ya'll should be worried about Quinn asking for NJ this offseason, forget when hes a UFA.

This is a league where Joey Daccord and Blackwood just got 5x5s. We are absolutely blessed the goalie graveyard from the 2000s somehow keeps gifting us starters YEAR after YEAR after YEAR. Its the one thing we dont have to pray for. Lankinen can absolutely be the starter and we absolutely dodged the Thatcher bullet even if his trade value is worthless today. No 10,000,000 x7's in Thatcher and Vancouver's future is a blessing.

Brock Boeser for Josh Norris.

Ottawa gets out of that longterm deal, can still push for playoffs with Brock, and can still trade him if they dont feel the cost or fit is right.

Boom, Quinn's best friend and a centerman.

This is a team that just iced Di Guiseppe, Sasson, Brisebois, Forbort, Desharnais AND Juulsen in the same game.

Maybe Lekk doesnt replace Boeser today no but there is like 10 roster spots we can upgrade on here! Lekk and a upgrade on PDG and yes I believe we can withstand the loss of Brock and even be better off.

Maybe Miller doesnt get a "haul" but having an warchest of pieces and we're right back in it and can chase the next Necas, Tkachuk, Cozens types around the league.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Quinn and his contract 3 years from now is the least of my concerns. Especially if the dude has to babysit these forwards for the next couple.

Heck if we dont do something NOW, ya'll should be worried about Quinn asking for NJ this offseason, forget when hes a UFA.

This is a league where Joey Daccord and Blackwood just got 5x5s. We are absolutely blessed the goalie graveyard from the 2000s somehow keeps gifting us starters YEAR after YEAR after YEAR. Its the one thing we dont have to pray for. Lankinen can absolutely be the starter and we absolutely dodged the Thatcher bullet even if his trade value is worthless today. No 10,000,000 x7's in Thatcher and Vancouver's future is a blessing.

Brock Boeser for Josh Norris.

Ottawa gets out of that longterm deal, can still push for playoffs with Brock, and can still trade him if they dont feel the cost or fit is right.

Boom, Quinn's best friend and a centerman.

This is a team that just iced Di Guiseppe, Sasson, Brisebois, Forbort, Desharnais AND Juulsen in the same game.

Maybe Lekk doesnt replace Boeser today no but there is like 10 roster spots we can upgrade on here! Lekk and a upgrade on PDG and yes I believe we can withstand the loss of Brock and even be better off.

Maybe Miller doesnt get a "haul" but having an warchest of pieces and we're right back in it and can chase the next Necas, Tkachuk, Cozens types around the league.

Brock Boeser for Josh Norris is interesting. Injury history though is a major concern.

 

[Szechwan]

I don’t think it’ll happen nor do I think he’s a Tocchet player, but I like Arthur Kaliyev and wouldn’t mind us claiming him to give him a shot.

I imagine Chicago will give him a shot, they need a trigger man as much as anyone

 

[Hodgy]

Brock Boeser for Josh Norris is interesting. Injury history though is a major concern.

Norris is making 8 million dollars per year long term and has 52 points in his last 88 games.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I like Norris but don't want anything to do with bionic shoulders, and nobody is trading much for Boeser knowing he's signing with Minnesota in six months if he doesn't stay here.

Nor do I think mgmt even thinks about trading him while JTM still here.

What's more interesting is what would we get from Minnesota if we traded him there...?
Won't get boldy or jeek but certainly rossi + is very intriguing.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Norris is making 8 million dollars per year long term and has 52 points in his last 88 games.

Oh shit, I for some strange reason thought he was making $6.5M. Big no ELL Oh ELL

 

[Diablo2020]

I like Norris but don't want anything to do with bionic shoulders, and nobody is trading much for Boeser knowing he's signing with Minnesota in six months if he doesn't stay here.

Nor do I think mgmt even thinks about trading him while JTM still here.

Thats why Norris for Boeser is perfect.

We add a centerman before we even ship out one.

With his shoulder and contract he doesnt have much value... yet to us, as center trade insurance and Hughes buddy insurance, he probably has the most value.

Boeser at 8x8 with his injury concerns is pretty much the same id have with Norris and his shoulder/contract truly so the positional win is key with Norris being a center.

Boeser gives them a chance to still push before they ship him at deadline to Minny for more than what Norris would fetch anyways.

What's more interesting is what would we get from Minnesota if we traded him there...?
Won't get boldy or jeek but certainly rossi + is very intriguing.

You just said no one is trading anything for Boeser since its us or Minny then two sentances later he's worth almost PPG Rossi to Minnesota themselves? Haha.

 

[Ernie]

I tend to agree in that I prefer Pettersson’s personality to Miller’s personality. But if we are being fair in our analysis of both, it must be recognized that management just called out Pettersson for his lack of preparation/compete/mental fortitude, or whatever you want to call it, so there’s clearly issues with both. Albeit Miller’s issues are more visibly noticeable. But he’s also more visibly noticeable in a positive way when he’s on the game as he a more fiery and emotional player vs. The more cerebral Pettersson.

It’s also kind of difficult to conclude exactly why he took the LOA although I’d probably lean to thinking it was team driven and may have been a result of Miller’s attitude….but that’s a ton of speculation.

Given how the season has gone, I don't know how much credit I'd give management. However, they'd be smarter to criticize the player they are hoping will improve instead of the player they'd like to trade, if they actually have any kind of coherent strategy at this point.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Thats why Norris for Boeser is perfect.

We add a centerman before we even ship out one.

With his shoulder and contract he doesnt have much value... yet to us, as center trade insurance and Hughes buddy insurance, he probably has the most value.

Boeser at 8x8 with his injury concerns is pretty much the same id have with Norris and his shoulder/contract truly so the positional win is key with Norris being a center.

Boeser gives them a chance to still push before they ship him at deadline to Minny for more than what Norris would fetch anyways.



You just said no one is trading anything for Boeser since its us or Minny then two sentances later he's worth almost PPG Rossi to Minnesota themselves? Haha.

Since it's us or Minnesota, they'd have to pay to get him, or we keep him, and we know they want him.

In the unlikely event we don't sign him, and don't move him to minny, he's more valuable and would get a better return than Norris, whom we don't want.

Pretty straightforward.

 

[Ernie]

You’re speaking very authoritatively on something you are speculating about.

It may be speculation, but it was very fishy that various hockey insiders had a good idea of the duration of his break. Mental health doesn't work that way.

On top of that, the correct protocol for this is the player assistance program. As far as I can tell, it is unprecedented for a player to be away this long without being in that program.

People who get professional help with mental health issues tend to come back with a different outlook. In Miller's case, he went straight back to a feud with his teammate with little evidence of introspection.

 

[Quinning]

I will be glad when we shift away from this core and finally get rid the Benning stink from this franchise. They are all decent players but 2018-2022 was just such a loser period for these guys and it's ultimately led to a loser mentality.

lt's a total shame the Sedin core didn't overlap with this core. This franchise really needed GOOD veteran leadership in the late 2010's. Instead, you had LOSERS or washed up veterans mentoring this group.

I knew it was always going to come to this eventually. Keeping a f***ing moron in place for as long as we did is poison. It's like ending a relationship - takes half as long as you were with the person to truly get over them. Benning's stupidity absolutely f***ed this core, and the OEL cap hit is the nail in the coffin.

All of this started when Tanev, Markstrom and Toffoli weren't offered extensions and Dumbo went to chase OEL instead.

Look, I've been saying since Allvin took over that the Canucks really don't have much of a shot at being a true contender - which is why I was more pro "reset/rebuild" when Allvin took over. But with the moves Allvin has made, he gave the Canucks a small (but real) chance of being a team that could make noise. Not a true contender, but a team that could go on a run if they get all the breaks. I was in favour of "going for it" last season because I thought that last season was likely their best chance at a Cup in the Quinn Hughes window. Demko getting injured dashed that, though.

But let's be real. You don't want a contender "every year for the next decade". What you're advocating for, in the best case, is a complete rebuild. They will have no high-end players and lose their MVP calibre captain. They won't be a contender for at least 5+ years. Probably closer to a decade. That's the bull case. The bear case is you doom the team to being the next Buffalo, just in a perpetual retool/rebuild but forever circling the drain.


100%. If you trade both you are admitting you are entering a full rebuild. There will be no hopes of being competitive for at least 5 years. Might as well trade Quinn before he walks to NJ in that scenario.

We would get an absolute haul for Hughes if we trade him, and honestly if this core collapses there's no point keeping him. He won't re-sign, and you can't build a Stanley Cup winner around one player (no matter who that player is).

 

[LemonSauceD]

Let’s see if it works this time.

Joel Eriksson Ek. Oh man I would love to trade JT Miller for Joel Eriksson Ek!

 

[Bleach Clean]

Look, I've been saying since Allvin took over that the Canucks really don't have much of a shot at being a true contender - which is why I was more pro "reset/rebuild" when Allvin took over. But with the moves Allvin has made, he gave the Canucks a small (but real) chance of being a team that could make noise. Not a true contender, but a team that could go on a run if they get all the breaks. I was in favour of "going for it" last season because I thought that last season was likely their best chance at a Cup in the Quinn Hughes window. Demko getting injured dashed that, though.

If it wasn't going to be a true contender, why re-tool so quickly? Re-tool slower. Take some time with asset accrual and development as they have with Lekkerimaki and Willander (while keeping the core4 together).

You are probably correct in your assessment. They've hit critical mass in terms of burning capital. Now, they have to hope that when all the players get back, they can right the ship. We'll know by the end of the season...

This is where I land too. I think you have to have the wool pulled over your eyes to think either player is without issue.

The Sedins show how you can be quiet leaders and there seems to be enough smoke to think that Pettersson isn’t at that level. And if he were still playing well it probably wouldn’t be a question but now that he hasn’t for about a season’s worth of games his preparation is coming into question. There may even be merit in Miller being hard on him.

But you can push hard on people if you’re Sidney Crosby or Michael Jordan. Miller can probably even get away with it when he plays like he did last year

Crosby has the character to go with his play. Miller does not, and outside of his peak, his play lags behind Pettersson. Therefore, Miller should never have been allowed to be critical of Pettersson. Least of all for 5 years (per rumour)...

I'm actually heartened by the fact that Pettersson hasn't given ground to Miller. The rift persists because Pettersson has entrenched. This far, no further. If Tocchet is looking for some 'FU', that's it right there.

They could both have issues. Both have struggled this season. But only one has chosen to bully the other toward an untenable situation. It's not Pettersson, despite outperforming Miller for the most part.