Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | It's All Gone Pete Tong

Peen

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fwiw im team neither of them / whatever what hughes wants at this point but that isnt happening lol

if its binary then yeah ill take pettersson because of age / ceiling / defensive effort but yeah idk i also dont care just want good vibes back
 

ManVanFan

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fwiw im team neither of them / whatever what hughes wants at this point but that isnt happening lol

if its binary then yeah ill take pettersson because of age / ceiling / defensive effort but yeah idk i also dont care just want good vibes back
I'm on team both of them. Management committed to both of them. Management needs to help both players grow as people. Group therapy, counselling, sports psychologist. Not just a coach that says "toughen up" to both of them either.
 

Orr4Norris

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Reason why I had 1 or the other is both on ELC (i believe) but 1 is playing in the NHL while the other is in the AHL. I thought possibly Drury would want to keep Cuylie & might be open to moving Othmann
I think if JT goes to New York Zibanejad is the one coming back. This would likely be a trade to get both players a change of scenery. Not saying I would like that deal, just saying that it is the most likely one to be made.
 

Orr4Norris

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fwiw im team neither of them / whatever what hughes wants at this point but that isnt happening lol

if its binary then yeah ill take pettersson because of age / ceiling / defensive effort but yeah idk i also dont care just want good vibes back
All things being equal you probably want to keep Petey for all the reasons you listed. But I question whether Tocchet and this management team will ever get the best version of him. Bruce figured it out and they seem to be taking the opposite approach?? Doesn’t really make any sense.
 

Canucker

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I'm on team both of them. Management committed to both of them. Management needs to help both players grow as people. Group therapy, counselling, sports psychologist. Not just a coach that says "toughen up" to both of them either.
These are adults, not children...management committed huge amounts of money to them, if they can't act like professionals they should be traded and become someone elses problem...but it shouldn't even get to that point unless one, or both, of them are actually petulant children.
 

Kryten

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I think if JT goes to New York Zibanejad is the one coming back. This would likely be a trade to get both players a change of scenery. Not saying I would like that deal, just saying that it is the most likely one to be made.
This is what I see as well. There might be some additions from either side but the main parties being Miller and Zib make too much sense
 
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Jerry the great

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There’s holding him accountable and there’s throwing him under the bus.

They said his injury wasn’t an excuse. Given mgmts history with handling injuries (Mik, Hughes) I’d lean more towards them being completely in the wrong on that one.
They watched this player sign his extension, then completely mail it in for the balance of the season and the playoffs in a year we had a fairly good chance to make a deep run. This year he hasn't been any better. Without the benefit of knowing how the conversations behind closed doors are going, I see these comments by Alvin as a last ditch effort to get Pettersson to reengage and start playing like he's getting paid. The comments about "preparation" and expectations were like heat seeking missiles straight to the heart of the issue IMO.

We'll see how it goes once he gets back, but there is potentially a big difference in each sides sense of urgency. Pettersson gets paid regardless of whether he continues down the current road, or gets back to the one where he's a elite 2 way C. Alvin/Rutherford/Tocchet don't have that luxury. I don't see any scenario where they let this drag out beyond the trade deadline if the team is still on the wrong track.
 

Just A Bit Outside

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They watched this player sign his extension, then completely mail it in for the balance of the season and the playoffs in a year we had a fairly good chance to make a deep run. This year he hasn't been any better. Without the benefit of knowing how the conversations behind closed doors are going, I see these comments by Alvin as a last ditch effort to get Pettersson to reengage and start playing like he's getting paid. The comments about "preparation" and expectations were like heat seeking missiles straight to the heart of the issue IMO.

We'll see how it goes once he gets back, but there is potentially a big difference in each sides sense of urgency. Pettersson gets paid regardless of whether he continues down the current road, or gets back to the one where he's an elite 2 way C. Alvin/Rutherford/Tocchet don't have that luxury. I don't see any scenario where they let this drag out beyond the trade deadline if the team is still on the wrong track.
But he didn’t mail it in. He had an injury.

They expected him to play through it and be fine.

Demko had an injury too. They rushed him back and screwed him up even more.

Hughes had an injury. They rushed him back and now he’s out longer.

The way this mgmt group and coaching staff handle injuries by having the players “work through it” is extremely concerning.
 

Canucker

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But he didn’t mail it in. He had an injury.

They expected him to play through it and be fine.

Demko had an injury too. They rushed him back and screwed him up even more.

Hughes had an injury. They rushed him back and now he’s out longer.

The way this mgmt group and coaching staff handle injuries by having the players “work through it” is extremely concerning.

You're putting this all on the team and their medical staff, where is the accountability on the players themselves? Ultimately the players need to feel good about going back into the lineup, so they own this decision as well...its not like they are forced into getting back.
 

ManVanFan

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These are adults, not children...management committed huge amounts of money to them, if they can't act like professionals they should be traded and become someone elses problem...but it shouldn't even get to that point unless one, or both, of them are actually petulant children.
You don't think adults need help with their mental issues? Most adults are the ones that need it the most. Look at how many yahoo's on Wall Street are doing lines of coke during their lunch breaks. Doesn't seem like the adult thing to do. You have professional athletes on some weird pedestal. They're people, like you and me. As they say now most men mature in their late 20s.
 

arttk

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You're putting this all on the team and their medical staff, where is the accountability on the players themselves? Ultimately the players need to feel good about going back into the lineup, so they own this decision as well...its not like they are forced into getting back.
I mean hockey culture is you play even if you are injured. Hell it’s glorified to the point where you definitely play even if you are injured. The more injuries you play through the more heroic you are. It’s absolutely f***ing stupid.
 
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Canucker

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You don't think adults need help with their mental issues? Most adults are the ones that need it the most. Look at how many yahoo's on Wall Street are doing lines of coke during their lunch breaks. Doesn't seem like the adult thing to do. You have professional athletes on some weird pedestal. They're people, like you and me. As they say now most men mature in their late 20s.

I don't consider not being able to get along with a co-worker as a "mental issue"...these are well paid professionals, if they need assistance with their mental health there is a program for that given by the NHLPA.

I mean hockey culture is you play even if you are injured. Hell it’s glorified to the point where you definitely play even if you are injured. The more injuries you play through the more heroic you are. It’s absolutely f***ing stupid.

I don't disagree there, but the medical staff shouldn't be scapegoated because some players want to live the machismo life...ultimately if they can't find a reason to keep a player out, and the player says they are fine to play...what do you do? Force them to sit because you have a hunch they are faking being fine?
 

me2

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Make my day.
It still irks me that the poor guy went from a bad situation in Vancouver to a team quickly entering rebuild territory on Long Island. The guy deserves some success and a chance to play in meaningful games in the post-season.

It shouldn't. Horvat knew exactly what he was signing up for when he took the NYI offer. He could have chased better teams as a UFA but he took the biggest money deal he thought he could get. I can't blame him, he cashed in on half a year of unsustainable shooting percentage and goal scoring. He did the financially smart thing over the emotional thing.
 

ManVanFan

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I don't consider not being able to get along with a co-worker as a "mental issue"...these are well paid professionals, if they need assistance with their mental health there is a program for that given by the NHLPA.
Yes, they have helped with drug and alcohol problems for individuals. I do not know the extent of there therapy for anger issues or shutting down, anxiety or other mental health issues. The Canucks said Miller went out his self and looked for help. It wasn't announced the NHLPA was helping him do it. What a person gets paid has nothing to do with it. Jacob Markstrom in the past mentioned how he sought out help from a sports psychologist.

Players seek professionals to help themselves physically, why not mentally?
 
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Jerry the great

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But he didn’t mail it in. He had an injury.

They expected him to play through it and be fine.

Demko had an injury too. They rushed him back and screwed him up even more.

Hughes had an injury. They rushed him back and now he’s out longer.

The way this mgmt group and coaching staff handle injuries by having the players “work through it” is extremely concerning.
this is next level copium. elite even.
 

VanillaCoke

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Oct 30, 2013
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With the news the other day that Zibanejad might be willing to waive for the right environment what do we think of this trade;

NYR gets:
JT Miller
Nils Höglander
Vincent Desharnais

Van gets:
Zibanejad
Will Cuyle or Othman
Braden Schneider

Overall seems interesting for a trade but I dont think Drury takes the deal & wants to give the Rangers the full season to work out any issues they have

I think if JT goes to New York Zibanejad is the one coming back. This would likely be a trade to get both players a change of scenery. Not saying I would like that deal, just saying that it is the most likely one to be made.
Anything with Zib is a no.

A deal with NYR starts with Laf based on what we know about mgmt.
 

Canucker

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Yes, they have helped with drug and alcohol problems for individuals. I do not know the extent of there therapy for anger issues or shutting down, anxiety or other mental health issues. The Canucks said Miller went out his self and looked for help. It wasn't announced the NHLPA was helping him do it. What a person gets paid has nothing to do with it. Jacob Markstrom in the past mentioned how he sought out help from a sports psychologist.

Players seek professionals to help themselves physically, why not mentally?

They should if they feel they need help...there is nothing wrong with that. There is also nothing wrong with management expecting that their well paid employees act like professionals when in the work place...I have plenty of people I work with that I'm not a fan of, but I put feelings aside and do my work and ignore the nonsense...if I have a problem with a co-worker that goes beyond the bounds of acceptable behavior I'll go to HR and have it dealt with...but it won't change my professionalism in the work place.
 

Hodgy

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this is next level copium. elite even.
Ya, I think we can at least pretty definitively say, that management does not think Pettersson has had any injury that excuses his level of play, which is damning. Of course, there exists the possibility that management is wrong, but if that's the case, then one of two things exist:

1) Pettersson has a really bad injury but management isn't aware; or

2) Pettersson has a really bad injury and management is aware.

Neither option really makes any sense. If he is badly injured, you'd expect Pettersson to tell the trainers/doctors and management would know. And if management is aware, you wouldn't expect them to publicly call out Pettersson for essentially not trying hard enough right after essentially signing that player to the largest contract in team history (i.e., they look like morons when they could instead just signal that he's been playing through an injury).

To conclude that Pettersson's injury is the predominate cause of his poor play relies on the assumption that either Pettersson or Alvin is behaving in an entirely illogical manner.
 
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ihaveyuidonttouchme

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They need/have to keep playing through minor injuries because the moment either of them is out, we become a complete mess. We can’t afford to lose one or the other, or more, simultaneously. We don’t have the depth or high-end prospects to replace them and maintain that pace. not to mention our back end....
 

racerjoe

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Ya, I think we can at least pretty definitively say, that management does not think Pettersson has had any injury that excuses his level of play, which is damning. Of course, there exists the possibility that management is wrong, but if that's the case, then one of two things exist:

1) Pettersson has a really bad injury but management isn't aware; or

2) Pettersson has a really bad injury and management is aware.

Neither option really makes any sense. If he is badly injured, you'd expect Pettersson to tell the trainers/doctors and management would know. And if management is aware, you wouldn't expect them to publicly call out Pettersson for essentially not trying hard enough right after essentially signing that player to the largest contract in team history (i.e., they look like morons when they could instead just signal that he's been playing through an injury).

To conclude that Pettersson's injury is the predominate cause of his poor play relies on the assumption that either Pettersson or Alvin is behaving in an entirely illogical manner.

I think this was probably pretty close to what happened.

I think there is a ton of evidence now that this team has no idea what to do with injuries… at all.

I think this year is more recovery and lack of the right training as he changed how he trains in the summer because of the injury.

It also bothers me with how they are trying to light a fire under Pettersson… it’s clearly not what works with him. People can call him a baby for not responding… but I think it’s dumber and more insane to keep trying the same thing and expect a different result.
 

ManVanFan

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They should if they feel they need help...there is nothing wrong with that. There is also nothing wrong with management expecting that their well paid employees act like professionals when in the work place...I have plenty of people I work with that I'm not a fan of, but I put feelings aside and do my work and ignore the nonsense...if I have a problem with a co-worker that goes beyond the bounds of acceptable behavior I'll go to HR and have it dealt with...but it won't change my professionalism in the work place.
I don't think they are not acting like professionals. Allvin's comments were that they basically want Petey to be more like Hughes. Be consistent and answer when things aren't great.

Unless Petey is saying "I'm not doing that" then I don't see a real problem. Everybody matures in a different way and at different rates. Hell some people never mature. I work with a guy who's a decade older than me, if he doesn't like what I tell him, he will try to stop talking to me. He's almost 50.
 

supercanuck

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I despise bullies ((and that may be clouding my judgement) but it irks me that bullying that has gone on since at least 2021-2022 has been allowed to continue and the suggested solution is for EP to either just suck it up and/or grow up. It seems like classic victim blaming. Need to bring back Luke Schenn to tell JT to just back off.
 
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vancityluongo

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fwiw im team neither of them / whatever what hughes wants at this point but that isnt happening lol

if its binary then yeah ill take pettersson because of age / ceiling / defensive effort but yeah idk i also dont care just want good vibes back

ya think? i could fully see allvin/jr pull a philly richards/carter haha; probably not in-season, but at the draft before petey's nmc kicks in isn't out of the question

send miller wherever he wants to go first, take a bit of a hit with the nmc but land a u25 future core piece.

then start a bidding war on pettersson with the fully believable narrative that you don't have to move him and that lowballing won't work
 

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