Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | It's All Gone Pete Tong

[Canucker]

When Miller is bad, he's bad and it stands out. You finish watching the game thinking wow Miller sucked tonight.

When EP is bad, he's just invisible and you forget he even played. He's quietly putting up a solid defensive performance, quietly driving possession and winning his matchups even without Hughes, and disappointingly not on the scoresheet at the end of the game. The most you remember from his game is the 3x he fell down on the ice for little to no reason.

I think there's way more risk with Miller than EP. EP's downside is still a ~7M player, Miller's downside is get him off the team asap.

I don't disagree with your assessment, but I would add that Miller does have a some physical attributes and drive that you don't see from EP...but when he is bad it is VERY clear and "bozoesque".

Gun to my head, between the two of them, I probably keep EP and hope he is the elite player he is paid to be...but my fear is he's a "part time elite".

 

[VanillaCoke]

Jesus Christ some ppl are softer than ep allegedly is.

This isn't high school bully level team conflicts, this is the ephin NHL.
EP is a grown man making Eleven million dollars a year.

Everyone whining about him being bullied are completely ignoring the work ethic/dedication aspects that are clearly a large factor given management's comments.

 

[LemonSauceD]

A couple people been saying this now. Was JT’s leave of absence initiated from the team or himself? I was and still currently under the assumption he took it on his own will.

 

[ManVanFan]

Jesus Christ some ppl are softer than ep allegedly is.

This isn't high school bully level team conflicts, this is the ephin NHL.
EP is a grown man making Eleven million dollars a year.

Everyone whining about him being bullied are completely ignoring the work ethic/dedication aspects that are clearly a large factor given management's comments.

Did your dad not hug you enough? Lol.

A couple people been saying this now. Was JT’s leave of absence initiated from the team or himself? I was and still currently under the assumption he took it on his own will.

“First and foremost, I'm very proud of J.T. seeking help,” -Allvin.

All that tough love Miller has received led him to seek "help". Yet Petey is soft because he doesn't wanna be yelled at all the time. The Sedin's were different.

Can't forget this quote
Over the last two years, Miller has spoken openly about the ongoing challenge to manage his emotions, and not allowing anger or frustration to affect him or his teammates.

Yet some want to lay blame on Petey for this issue that Miller has been dealing with for years.

 

[Quinning]

I have a sick feeling that this core is f***ed, they'll never win a damn thing and Hughes is probably going to walk in a couple years. This is all the result of keeping Jim Benning in power for 8 seasons.

 

[VanJack]

I have a sick feeling that this core is f***ed, they'll never win a damn thing and Hughes is probably going to walk in a couple years. This is all the result of keeping Jim Benning in power for 8 seasons.

Sad, but possibly true. A franchise can't employ someone like Benning and his regime without having a hangover that will last well into the next five or six years after his departure.

But the current braintust, while making a lot of good moves, is still hamstrung by the terrible drafting of the past. Of course since taking over, Rutherford and Allvin have worsened the situation by trading a ton of draft picks themselves.

Some of them they were forced to trade to get out from under some terrible contracts. But they've also thrown a lot of picks on the pile for deadline rentals.

The result is a hollowed-out prospect pool--especially on the blueline. Other than Hughes, not a single NHL d-man drafted in over a decade. So if Hughes wants to hit free agency and join his brothers in Jersey--there's not much the Canucks can do to prevent it.

 

[TruGr1t]

I have a sick feeling that this core is f***ed, they'll never win a damn thing and Hughes is probably going to walk in a couple years. This is all the result of keeping Jim Benning in power for 8 seasons.

I think we have the chance to retool and build out from the backend as we should probably have done already. You have Hughes/Hronek locked, Willander on the way, and a couple guys developing pretty nicely on the farm and elsewhere. They should be able to bring at least one more top-four guy this summer, if not sooner. I would wager we have a significantly better blue line next year. I'm more worried about the net, if Demko doesn't bounce back we are looking pretty damn lean in the starting goalie department organizationally.

The forwards are just a question of mix in my opinion, I think if you materially improve the blue line you can sort it out.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I have a sick feeling that this core is f***ed, they'll never win a damn thing and Hughes is probably going to walk in a couple years. This is all the result of keeping Jim Benning in power for 8 seasons.

I feel for you man. I really do.

 

[Skirbs1110]

Miller+Desharnais to NYR for Trocheck+KAM as a base makes sense to me.

Trocheck is a solid 2C and is right shot we are missing in the middle, KAM has the potential and upside we need on the 2 LD. Maybe add some picks or a prospect like Othmann into the deal.

Not the "sexiest" of a base package that people are throwing around but it does fill our needs and still keeps us competitive.

 

[quat]

Miller+Desharnais to NYR for Trocheck+KAM as a base makes sense to me.

Trocheck is a solid 2C and is right shot we are missing in the middle, KAM has the potential and upside we need on the 2 LD. Maybe add some picks or a prospect like Othmann into the deal.

Not the "sexiest" of a base package that people are throwing around but it does fill our needs and still keeps us competitive.

Was going to post that I thought you might do better for Miller, but half way through writing I wasn't so certain.

 

[vancityluongo]

Miller+Desharnais to NYR for Trocheck+KAM as a base makes sense to me.

Trocheck is a solid 2C and is right shot we are missing in the middle, KAM has the potential and upside we need on the 2 LD. Maybe add some picks or a prospect like Othmann into the deal.

Not the "sexiest" of a base package that people are throwing around but it does fill our needs and still keeps us competitive.

don't love this but also don't hate it.

the other one i've thought about a bit as a pure change of scenery deal for both - zibanejad for miller, with either nyr retention, or another piece to even it out.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

don't love this but also don't hate it.

the other one i've thought about a bit as a pure change of scenery deal for both - zibanejad for miller, with either nyr retention, or another piece to even it out.

I’d also thought of Zibanejad and Miller, but there’s a lot of bad chatter about Zibanejad being washed.

 

[Szechwan]

don't love this but also don't hate it.

the other one i've thought about a bit as a pure change of scenery deal for both - zibanejad for miller, with either nyr retention, or another piece to even it out.

I've said it before, but big no to Zib, looking like an anchor.

Trocheck would be a serviceable 2C, but I'm not sure he's 2C on a contender.

 

[Nick Lang]

So much ridiculous and toxic speculation going on around here...Miller is a bully, EP is too soft mentally, Tocchet and management bungled this relationship. Meanwhile, we've been decimated by injuries, relying on a shockingly bad defense and yet we're still clicking at a .583 winning percentage...and we have people fully on board with tanking the season....what a f***ed up fanbase we have around here.

No freaking doubt. The fabrications and assumptions are just absolutely wild around here. The conclusions people are coming to are simply conjured up out of nothing. Some of the statements and "only obvious answers" are just ludicrous. A portion of this fanbase is seriously f***ed up.

 

[Jerry the great]

Miller+Desharnais to NYR for Trocheck+KAM as a base makes sense to me.

Trocheck is a solid 2C and is right shot we are missing in the middle, KAM has the potential and upside we need on the 2 LD. Maybe add some picks or a prospect like Othmann into the deal.

Not the "sexiest" of a base package that people are throwing around but it does fill our needs and still keeps us competitive.

Trocheck + Miller in a heartbeat....but for Petterson...and Forbort (not that i want to keep VD...but I can see them wanting a LHD)

Trocheck has ++ wheels, is an outstanding 2 way player, very good on the PK and is probably the best faceoff taker in the game. He may be paid like a 2C, but he produces like a 1C. Contract is an absolute steal.

He and JTM are buddies too, so there's that.

I'd probably add if necessary.

 

[sting101]

Jesus Christ some ppl are softer than ep allegedly is.

This isn't high school bully level team conflicts, this is the ephin NHL.
EP is a grown man making Eleven million dollars a year.

Everyone whining about him being bullied are completely ignoring the work ethic/dedication aspects that are clearly a large factor given management's comments.

Other teams will help coddle our players or ease off when we try and win a seven game series against them won't they?

 

[David71]

carolina and red wings seems like the perfect potential trade candidates for ep40

 

[Canucks LB]

I just spent like 3/4 hours out of my life to figure out a way to make this team work property and fixing most of our needs WITHOUT trading JT or Petey and signing Boeser and honestly, could not do it.

I also tried to not sign Boeser and look elsewhere and it's even more difficult.
The UFA class is awful and the RHD Class is even worse.

I feel like the only thing we can honestly do is trade Petey or Miller to make any of this work.

It's wild, i tried everything, just could not make a better roster that works

 

[aight]

I just spent like 3/4 hours out of my life to figure out a way to make this team work property and fixing most of our needs WITHOUT trading JT or Petey and signing Boeser and honestly, could not do it.

I also tried to not sign Boeser and look elsewhere and it's even more difficult.
The UFA class is awful and the RHD Class is even worse.

I feel like the only thing we can honestly do is trade Petey or Miller to make any of this work.

It's wild, i tried everything, just could not make a better roster that works

Do you mean 45 minutes or between three and four hours?

 

[Canucks LB]

Do you mean 45 minutes or between three and four hours?

3 to 4 Hours.

By the way, this leaves us with 10.8m in cap space (roughly, if i did it right) without Hog and Dumping Desharnais for a pick.

And the UFA Class is BRUTAL for Wingers and RHD this year. (Outside the superstars in marner/rant)
There is no "Debrusk" That i see, unless you wanna go older in kane.
Only guy i saw that is kinda young with talent in Debrusk area is maybe Ehlers? But that's not a good fit, and hes gonna still cost more.

So if you are adamant you wanna keep Brock, you basically have to trade a Top prospect + a 1st to find a young low cap great young RHD or Winger to play.

This is why I just can't see us keeping all 3, Petey, jt and brock

 

[aight]

3 to 4 Hours.

By the way, this leaves us with 10.8m in cap space (roughly, if i did it right) without Hog and Dumping Desharnais for a pick.

View attachment 954686

And the UFA Class is BRUTAL for Wingers and RHD this year. (Outside the superstars in marner/rant)
There is no "Debrusk" That i see, unless you wanna go older in kane.
Only guy i saw that is kinda young with talent in Debrusk area is maybe Ehlers? But that's not a good fit, and hes gonna still cost more.

This is why I just can't see us keeping all 3, Petey, jt and brock

I don't even feel like saying the way again.

 

[Canucks LB]

I don't even feel like saying the way again.

I even tried to remove Boeser and target Rant or Marner and see if I can make it work going with mostly youth for rest of positions.

Just can't do it honestly, does not work, unless you do a pure futures deal and trade JT and petey and sign a big gun and maneuver, which is a crazy huge gamble.

More normal route is basically just trading Petey for a "great" package (For a 2nd line C + RHD) and save some cap, and use that cap and a draft pick to find another top 4 retained D and also sign a guy like Markus pettersson.

Overall this all just sucks ass

 

[Yossarian54]

3 to 4 Hours.

By the way, this leaves us with 10.8m in cap space (roughly, if i did it right) without Hog and Dumping Desharnais for a pick.

View attachment 954686

And the UFA Class is BRUTAL for Wingers and RHD this year. (Outside the superstars in marner/rant)
There is no "Debrusk" That i see, unless you wanna go older in kane.
Only guy i saw that is kinda young with talent in Debrusk area is maybe Ehlers? But that's not a good fit, and hes gonna still cost more.

So if you are adamant you wanna keep Brock, you basically have to trade a Top prospect + a 1st to find a young low cap great young RHD or Winger to play.

This is why I just can't see us keeping all 3, Petey, jt and brock

You can do it without trading anyone good (and actually have the roster look good) contingent on several things happening.

1. Spending 6-7m on a competent #3D which means you probably have to acquire one via trade rather than UFA as you correctly point out. Not sure LD/RD matters but just someone competent who can handle 2nd pairing minutes.

2. Lekkerimaki is at least a top-9 forward

3. At least 1, preferably 2 out of Willander, D-Petterson and Kudryatsev are able to make the NHL and not have to be totally sheltered.

4. You have to get rid of Desharnais and Hoglander's cap hits which presumably will cost a few minor picks

e.g this 23 man roster is under the predicted cap for next year (assume all names are placeholders)

If that all comes together I think you can get 2 years of contention out of this roster before it all goes sideways with the cap/aging.

 

[Diversification]

Marshall McLuhan famously said that the medium is the message, by which he meant that the mode of conveyance warrants as much scrutiny as the message conveyed. If we apply this principle to Allvin's comments re: Pettersson we have the following:

The message was conveyed at a year-end review of the Canucks that occurred on Sportsnet and was conducted by crypto-journalist and unofficial team mouthpiece, Iain MacIntyre. Allvin knew well ahead of time that there would be this scheduled interview, that it would be held on friendly ground and that the organization would a have a good deal of control over what would be discussed.

That is to say, what was divulged had been carefully vetted and was by no means off-the-cuff. It's for this reason that I don't believe what he said about Pettersson was out of frustration and a last-ditch effort to embarrass a player into getting with the program. He may genuinely feel that way but it seems too emotional and too self-indulgent for this management team to publicly blast a player they are unhappy with.

No, by them putting this out there in the public sphere in a controlled environment it seems more like a bat signal to the rest of the GMs in the league that the Canucks are open for business and that Pettersson is on the table should the right offer come along whereas Miller is not.

I think Allvin and management have already made their choice. Buckle up.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I just spent like 3/4 hours out of my life to figure out a way to make this team work property and fixing most of our needs WITHOUT trading JT or Petey and signing Boeser and honestly, could not do it.

Did you add in the cap jumping to 92M? While it's not exactly a stellar lineup, I came up with this:

We'd have 1,177M left over, which essentially covers a 13th forward. This also assumes we are able to dump Hoglander and Desharnais for, at worst, future considerations. Realistically, it's probably Brannstrom and Willander rotating the third pairing RD slot, but Soucy can play right.

If we moved out Heinen, we could possibly chase an older upgrade there like Hall who will likely be in the 3M-ish range at this stage of his career. That'd be my choice over letting Suter walk. I really hate relying on Silovs as our backup in case Demko goes down again, but we have to save money somewhere and backup goalie just isn't a priority.