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[brock hughes007]

Desharnais was and will be a bad contract. Allvin hasn’t been 100% on his signings and I think this will be one them.

Agreed.I think the only one I'm liking right
now is Sherwood.I think PA spent to much time and effort trying to get Guentzel he ended up with scraps.Bad off season as far as I'm concerned.

 

[TruGr1t]

Desharnais was and will be a bad contract. Allvin hasn’t been 100% on his signings and I think this will be one them.

I think the coaches to a degree wear this one as well. It sounds like he was not someone they necessarily planned to target heading into free agency, but he became available and they just sort of ad hoc jumped on it. A lot of the conversation at the time was that Tocchet and Foote thought they could work with him, and it does sound like he was sorta signed at the request of the coaches.

He doesn't really fit the profile of players Allvin has targeted generally, but I guess Forbort didn't either (though Forbort's case, I think he was just cheap).

 

[mathonwy]

If we win tonight we're on pace for 106 points after the first 10 games despite nearly everything going wrong so far. It's been a weird start to the season with a lot of weird emotions.

Or we may never win again.

 

[MS]

I think the coaches to a degree wear this one as well. It sounds like he was not someone they necessarily planned to target heading into free agency, but he became available and they just sort of ad hoc jumped on it. A lot of the conversation at the time was that Tocchet and Foote thought they could work with him, and it does sound like he was sorta signed at the request of the coaches.

He doesn't really fit the profile of players Allvin has targeted generally, but I guess Forbort didn't either (though Forbort's case, I think he was just cheap).

Yeah, I've always been a big believer in managers manage/players coach the players they're given.

I get what they were thinking with Desharnais but he's really struggling with the system and it looks like what Edmonton was doing hid his flaws better.

That said, he's played 6 games and the whole notion of the signing was that the coaches thought this was a guy they could work with and improve and we're obviously not at 'finished' yet.

 

[pitseleh]

Yeah, I don't really have any problems with Heinen.

Weird player who looks invisible but actually plays a very intelligent positional/defensive game and will end up in the right places for 30 ESP. I think he's a guy who is better than a single-game eye test picks up.

Heinen is a guy that the numbers always like better than the eye test. He doesn’t get sheltered but his teammates almost invariably do better when he is on the ice than when he is not. The same is true so far this year, albeit in small samples given how much he has bounced around lines.

 

[sting101]

Yeah, I don't really have any problems with Heinen.

Weird player who looks invisible but actually plays a very intelligent positional/defensive game and will end up in the right places for 30 ESP. I think he's a guy who is better than a single-game eye test picks up.

Right now, if I'm rating the signings :

Lankinen A+
Sherwood A+
Heinen B-/C+
Debrusk D
Desharnais F
Forbort (incomplete but looks like a poor fit)

Debrusk is a notoriously streaky player and I'm sure he'll get on a run before long.

Glad someone else sees this.

I wasn't thrilled or impressed by the signing but i've gone to 2 games live recently to add to watching every minute of this team. Seeing him off puck and lower to the ice opened my eyes to a few things.

* His skating looks upright and sluggish on TV but in actuality he covers a lot of ground and has decent speed. It's a weird style but he's efficient and smooth.
* 6'2 with long reach. Fills lanes, anticipation and defensive game are excellent. He's very good at playing a system and making it tough to get through the neutral zone and set up
* He's complemented that 3rd line really well and they have been the best line.
* While he doesn't make the boards go boom and can look sluggish/boring he's producing at both ends is a good PKer having success with Sherwood.

Not sure how it goes once Joshua is up to speed as both seem to be very good 3LWs that might be stretched as top6ers but for now he's been good

 

[VanillaCoke]

Brock Boeser is a hundred percent getting an extension, if you think there's some uncertainty there you've got worse fever hallucinations than Vector.


Boeser is playing in Vancouver or Minnesota probably his entire career.

 

[Vector]

I am down and out with one too, so wasn’t sure but assumed people would be freaking out much more if as written.

I’m legitimately surprised how people have been accepting of the mistake.

 

[credulous]

Brock Boeser is a hundred percent getting an extension, if you think there's some uncertainty there you've got worse fever hallucinations than Vector.


Boeser is playing in Vancouver or Minnesota probably his entire career.

i think they probably should extend him (unless his play craters or he's injured or something) but jr is notoriously quick to move off players he's lost interest in and to make big moves. if they don't think he's a long term fit i think they'll try to move him

 

[MS]

* His skating looks upright and sluggish on TV but in actuality he covers a lot of ground and has decent speed. It's a weird style but he's efficient smooth and covers a lot of ground.

His skating style looks absolutely identical to Peter Schaefer, and Schaefer could be described much the same way.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Heinen ??

Already calling that a miss?

Just not that big on Heinen to warrant a 2 year deal over 2 mil per, especially when you're looking down the barrel of a cap issue (assuming Boeser re-signs). Seemed like a redundant signing considering the team needs on the back end.

 

[VanillaCoke]

i think they probably should extend him (unless his play craters or he's injured or something) but jr is notoriously quick to move off players he's lost interest in and to make big moves. if they don't think he's a long term fit i think they'll try to move him

Allvin isn't notorious for that though, Brock rides shotgun on the top line with our best forward for the past few years, he's about as much of a core piece as it gets.
He's getting the full seven or eight year full no move deal and playing here or Minny, only question is if it's equal to or slightly less than Miller's aav imo.

 

[sting101]

His skating style looks absolutely identical to Peter Schaefer, and Schaefer could be described much the same way.

Oh wow Schaefer yes i can see that. Good one

Just not that big on Heinen to warrant a 2 year deal over 2 mil per, especially when you're looking down the barrel of a cap issue (assuming Boeser re-signs). Seemed like a redundant signing considering the team needs on the back end.

Fair enough. Difference between being bad vs being a bad fit due to cap allocations though

I'm on record saying i would have re signed Zadorov which would have meant we could have squeezed in Debrusk who i was also pining for but certainly Heinen Desharnais Forbort would have all not been signed. And i still would be ok with that.

Zadorov Willander on a pair would have been my long term projection.

 

[Hodgy]

i think the worst thing they could do is extend boeser and make a couple modest trade deadline moves. yeah any team can win if they get hot at the right time but continually spending assets in situations where you really have little hope is the fastest way to squander a competitive opportunity and prolong the eventual misery when you fall out entirely

I think this is probably what's going to happen in that I think management believes they can thread the needle and be bother cup contenders in the short and mid term.

Yeah, I don't really have any problems with Heinen.

Weird player who looks invisible but actually plays a very intelligent positional/defensive game and will end up in the right places for 30 ESP. I think he's a guy who is better than a single-game eye test picks up.

Right now, if I'm rating the signings :

Lankinen A+
Sherwood A+
Heinen B-/C+
Debrusk D
Desharnais F
Forbort (incomplete but looks like a poor fit)

Debrusk is a notoriously streaky player and I'm sure he'll get on a run before long.

Its all way too early, and I agree with the above, but based on contracts, it won't matter if they hit on Lankinen and Sherwood if they miss on Debrusk.

 

[kanucks25]

Yeah, not understanding the dislike for Heinen so far.

Yes he looks like he's not accomplishing much most of the time but he does all the little things coaches value / you want from players in your bottom-6 and will still end up with a decent point total. Skating style is definitely strange but he seems to always get there despite looking like he's not going to get there lol.

If we didn't have a disaster D pairing playing high leverage minutes and a superstar that's taking up over 10% of the cap gone MIA, nobody would be complaining about him. But because we're not off to a hot start, seems like unnecessary pitchforks are out.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

I think this is probably what's going to happen in that I think management believes they can thread the needle and be bother cup contenders in the short and mid term.



Its all way too early, and I agree with the above, but based on contracts, it won't matter if they hit on Lankinen and Sherwood if they miss on Debrusk.

In a vacuum extending Boeser to a fair contract is a no-brainer. However, in our situation, its not as cut and dry. With the cap penalty on OEL increasing and already retained on a couple contracts, we aren't really going to get any additional cap space even if the cap goes up next summer. Extending Boeser (to a raise obviously) just means less money for other areas. We are already weak as is on D and need to allocate some more resources there, unless you expect a rookie Willander will come in and fixes everything wrong with the bottom 4.

We aren't getting better if we take that route, and essentially just burning another one of Hughes/JTM's prime year not being a serious contender.

Everything changes if Petey rediscover his game and return to his 100 point elite 1C play, but as is, extending Boeser doesn't really do much for the team one way or another.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Yeah, not understanding the dislike for Heinen so far.

Yes he looks like he's not accomplishing much most of the time but he does all the little things coaches value / you want from players in your bottom-6 and will still end up with a decent point total. Skating style is definitely strange but he seems to always get there despite looking like he's not going to get there lol.

If we didn't have a disaster D pairing playing high leverage minutes and a superstar that's taking up over 10% of the cap gone MIA, nobody would be complaining about him. But because we're not off to a hot start, seems like unnecessary pitchforks are out.

I don't like the signing not because I don't like the player, but because I don't think we should've allocated $2.25m to more bottom 6 wingers. We have Sherwood, Sprong, Garland and Joshua, with Suter and Hoglander potentially moving up and down as the coach see fit. Granted, Garland getting bumped up and Joshua having health issue means there is a short term opening on the bottom 6, but looking at the blueline, I much rather invest that money helping out there instead.

In a vacuum Heinen's contract is fine, but when we have sufficient bottom 6 wingers as is, and has a desperate need to upgrade our D, it doesn't seem wise to spend the limited resource on a 3LW.

 

[bossram]

Heinen is a guy that the numbers always like better than the eye test. He doesn’t get sheltered but his teammates almost invariably do better when he is on the ice than when he is not. The same is true so far this year, albeit in small samples given how much he has bounced around lines.

Glad someone else sees this.

I wasn't thrilled or impressed by the signing but i've gone to 2 games live recently to add to watching every minute of this team. Seeing him off puck and lower to the ice opened my eyes to a few things.

* His skating looks upright and sluggish on TV but in actuality he covers a lot of ground and has decent speed. It's a weird style but he's efficient and smooth.
* 6'2 with long reach. Fills lanes, anticipation and defensive game are excellent. He's very good at playing a system and making it tough to get through the neutral zone and set up
* He's complemented that 3rd line really well and they have been the best line.
* While he doesn't make the boards go boom and can look sluggish/boring he's producing at both ends is a good PKer having success with Sherwood.

Not sure how it goes once Joshua is up to speed as both seem to be very good 3LWs that might be stretched as top6ers but for now he's been good

Yeah, not understanding the dislike for Heinen so far.

Yes he looks like he's not accomplishing much most of the time but he does all the little things coaches value / you want from players in your bottom-6 and will still end up with a decent point total. Skating style is definitely strange but he seems to always get there despite looking like he's not going to get there lol.

If we didn't have a disaster D pairing playing high leverage minutes and a superstar that's taking up over 10% of the cap gone MIA, nobody would be complaining about him. But because we're not off to a hot start, seems like unnecessary pitchforks are out.

100% to the above. I made the same comments a few games ago. If someone thinks Heinen has been a problem, they really don't know what they're watching.

He runs the right routes on the forecheck and backcheck. He's generally reliable positionally in the DZ and can win some wall battles and get pucks out of the zone, to avoid having shifts hemmed in. And he can chip in with some offense here and there.

The lines Heinen have been on have generally been effective. You can kinda plug him in wherever they want and not worry about "fit". That's an ideal utility player.

 

[bossram]

I don't like the signing not because I don't like the player, but because I don't think we should've allocated $2.25m to more bottom 6 wingers. We have Sherwood, Sprong, Garland and Joshua, with Suter and Hoglander potentially moving up and down as the coach see fit. Granted, Garland getting bumped up and Joshua having health issue means there is a short term opening on the bottom 6, but looking at the blueline, I much rather invest that money helping out there instead.

In a vacuum Heinen's contract is fine, but when we have sufficient bottom 6 wingers as is, and has a desperate need to upgrade our D, it doesn't seem wise to spend the limited resource on a 3LW.

I get the "cap allocation should be moved toward the blueline" argument, but I don't think Heinen is the culprit that prevented them from upgrading the back end.

The real inefficiency on the team is Myers. Myers' contract is not good (the third year especially was very unnecessary). Myers + Desharnais cap hits could have been allocated toward a more legitimate top-four player. Or Myers + Sprong ( didn't really love the Sprong signing, despite minimal risk) + Forbort.

I think Heinen provides a lot of utility to the team, that the aforementioned players above don't.

People can also point at Debrusk being inefficient. I'm willing to give him more time.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Yep. Myers, Desharnais, and Forbort represent $6.5M in cap that are going towards non-top-4 defenseman. Super inefficient, and I'm sure the team knows it.

DeBrusk early returns have been ass but long term I'm not worried.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

I get the "cap allocation should be moved toward the blueline" argument, but I don't think Heinen is the culprit that prevented them from upgrading the back end.

The real inefficiency on the team is Myers. Myers' contract is not good (the third year especially was very unnecessary). Myers + Desharnais cap hits could have been allocated toward a more legitimate top-four player. Or Myers + Sprong ( didn't really love the Sprong signing, despite minimal risk) + Forbort.

I think Heinen provides a lot of utility to the team, that the aforementioned players above don't.

People can also point at Debrusk being inefficient. I'm willing to give him more time.

Yea I'm not a fan of the Myers contract either, let me be clear on that. The amount of cap space saved from Heinen + Myers + Sprong is more than enough to extend Zadorov, which is what I would've preferred.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Anyone here familiar with Jiricek? Columbus fans are talking about possibly trading him due to all the nonsense Jarmo caused last year. Seems like a great kid to target if he does become available.