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BenningHurtsMySoul
Unfair Huggy Bear
Well ultimately it's the same thing as with Dylan Guenther - not as if he was our prospect and we traded him. There's no guarantee Benning would have taken either of these players.
It's better than what you see in picks 6-10 most drafts, honestly.
Not worth talking about but the Canucks continue to send Bains and Brannstrom down to boost their accrual.
BenningHurtsMySoul
Unfair Huggy Bear
This team has had a bad stretch from 2019-2024 where they either haven't held onto their high picks or haven't managed to find impact players to insert into the lineup. The notable exceptions being Hoglander, Lekkerimaki and Willander (who haven't yet made the jump). This is always a risk when you trade picks for rentals, because unless you win it all it's not going to be worth it in the long run. Missing on Podkolzin was a huge blow to our top six, especially considering Boldy and Caufield went immediately after.
The same thing happened to the 2009-2013 era Canucks. We really felt the lack of promising ELC talent that could come in on cheap contracts and play above expectations. The only reason that team was so competitive is the Luongo cap manipulation + group discounts in bulk.
The current core of this group had their cheap years wasted by Benning's inability to run a bath, let alone a f***ing hockey team. The rest of the players were acquired or signed and haven't exactly played above their value, which is collectively what you need to win a Cup. If everyone plays at or below their cap hit, you simply can't compete in a salary cap world. If you end up with situations like Loui or OEL, you are dead to rights. No team can overcome $10+ million in dead weight.
Additionally - I don't love that since Tocchet's arrival, they have tried to brute force a completely different playing style than the core was used to. Seems like exactly what Benning tried to do in 2013 and beyond because of the loss to Boston. It worked last season because everything went our way until the All Star Break - as soon as everyone came back down to reality, productivity fell off a cliff and we haven't seen things go particularly well since.
It felt like they were on the cusp of being a truly exciting, offensive juggernaut of a team and they tried to switch gears to become a grinding, defence-first team that capitalizes on mistakes. But the problem is that we didn't actually have those types of players on our team - they have tried to force players like Pettersson, Kuzmenko, Suter etc. into being way more physical and put a leash on their offensive creativity, lest ye receive the Daniel Sprong treatment.
And when they realized they were lacking those types of players, they overpaid on the open market to bring them in. Only now, you have a bunch of players with no history of playing together mixed with a core group of players who have been forced to change what has made them successful. The result is a disjointed, dysfunctional mess. That's where we are.
I hate to say it, but I think last year was the best shot this core will ever have. The door was wide open and they blew it.
The same thing happened to the 2009-2013 era Canucks. We really felt the lack of promising ELC talent that could come in on cheap contracts and play above expectations. The only reason that team was so competitive is the Luongo cap manipulation + group discounts in bulk.
The current core of this group had their cheap years wasted by Benning's inability to run a bath, let alone a f***ing hockey team. The rest of the players were acquired or signed and haven't exactly played above their value, which is collectively what you need to win a Cup. If everyone plays at or below their cap hit, you simply can't compete in a salary cap world. If you end up with situations like Loui or OEL, you are dead to rights. No team can overcome $10+ million in dead weight.
Additionally - I don't love that since Tocchet's arrival, they have tried to brute force a completely different playing style than the core was used to. Seems like exactly what Benning tried to do in 2013 and beyond because of the loss to Boston. It worked last season because everything went our way until the All Star Break - as soon as everyone came back down to reality, productivity fell off a cliff and we haven't seen things go particularly well since.
It felt like they were on the cusp of being a truly exciting, offensive juggernaut of a team and they tried to switch gears to become a grinding, defence-first team that capitalizes on mistakes. But the problem is that we didn't actually have those types of players on our team - they have tried to force players like Pettersson, Kuzmenko, Suter etc. into being way more physical and put a leash on their offensive creativity, lest ye receive the Daniel Sprong treatment.
And when they realized they were lacking those types of players, they overpaid on the open market to bring them in. Only now, you have a bunch of players with no history of playing together mixed with a core group of players who have been forced to change what has made them successful. The result is a disjointed, dysfunctional mess. That's where we are.
I hate to say it, but I think last year was the best shot this core will ever have. The door was wide open and they blew it.
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Bourne Endeavor
Registered User
Do they actually have to report to Abbotsford or is it just a formality and they don't leave the team?
theguardianII
Registered User
- Jan 30, 2020
- 3,663
- 1,855
The previous post hit so many homeruns.
There was a change to a more defensive system but they had a pretty damn good group.
Someon really underestimated Zadorov impact on the team. He wasn't a Chara or Orr but he played both sides, was the fastest skater on the team and when he went outside ot Tocchet's guidelines he potted a couple of important goals, all by himself in the playoffs.
IMO it is possible that Tocchet tries to micro manage how a player plays and yes most on the team are his guys.
Miller is a Tocchet type guy but those named and EP aren't, they should never be shoehorned into trying to be one of those players. When that happens they might as well really over paid 4th liners.
Tocchets contract is up soon and a question might be Tocchet or the players. To me this change of direction is ALL about giving Tocchet what he wants, giving him the players he wants.
As I posted before, he has only one winning season and in Arizona, lots of trade requests from high skilled guys. Just look at how some player have flourished since he left or on other teams.
But then they really didn't have a great draft position either being one of the top teams in the easy season. Picks in the 27 to 31 spots are not the same as the top 6, 10 or 15. Two President Trophies and a cup final.
Tocchet does not seem to be flexible.
There was a change to a more defensive system but they had a pretty damn good group.
Someon really underestimated Zadorov impact on the team. He wasn't a Chara or Orr but he played both sides, was the fastest skater on the team and when he went outside ot Tocchet's guidelines he potted a couple of important goals, all by himself in the playoffs.
IMO it is possible that Tocchet tries to micro manage how a player plays and yes most on the team are his guys.
There were a couple of comments about Lindholm's game in the playoffs, like when he was hitting. Paraphrasing, "that's different for him, he usually isn't playing like that" and one of "was that Lindholm making that hit?" like a surprise.
Miller is a Tocchet type guy but those named and EP aren't, they should never be shoehorned into trying to be one of those players. When that happens they might as well really over paid 4th liners.
Tocchets contract is up soon and a question might be Tocchet or the players. To me this change of direction is ALL about giving Tocchet what he wants, giving him the players he wants.
As I posted before, he has only one winning season and in Arizona, lots of trade requests from high skilled guys. Just look at how some player have flourished since he left or on other teams.
Agreed that this simply isn't the same team as a year ago. But that's not to say that they could be, before the end of the season.
A lot of these new guys are still trying to figure out 'Tocchet hockey'. I guess there's a chance some of them can never adjust to it, and the team struggles around the playoff bubble all year.
But by the 20 game mark or U.S. Thanksgiving, we should have a much clearer picture.
Seasons are long and what is happening in October has little relevance to what will happen in April. You just don't want to be one of the teams that lose the season by starting 3-10 or whatever like we did in 2021 and 2022. And so far we haven't.
Two of the last 12 Cup winners (LA 2012, St. Louis 2019) were actually teams having crappy seasons until the right moves fell into place past the mid-way point of the season.
theguardianII
Registered User
- Jan 30, 2020
- 3,663
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November 28th, TDay in the states.
85% of teams in a playoff spot make it.
The Canucks do have a very easy schedule up to then.
This season does seem atypical in the standings as some teams wind down but still have "game" left.
Those two teams listed also had tons of cap space and had been winning teams for years before that happened.
We only have 2 regulation losses in our first 9 games and our first 25 games of the season through early December are the softest I can ever remember. We'll be fine.
oceanchild
Registered User
I mean, im just annoyed because we clearly over paid at the time and I don’t think anyone had much doubt. Not sure it matters to me that he was the result, mostly because I don’t know that we would have taken him anyhow. That said I’m sorry to hear your balls are experiencing such an extreme reaction. Make sure to use Ice.
Hoglander has value and it’s not a bad contract. I suspect some of the teams in rebuild would like his age and have the ability to give him time on the PP.
Slapshot_11
Registered User
- Aug 30, 2006
- 7,739
- 2,423
Yep.
There are flaws and criticisms of the team, to be sure. But it's a lot of handwringing over two games in October.
5 days ago the vibes were high after a win streak.
These are the ebbs and flows of a long season.
Vancouver_2010
Canucks and Oilers fan
- Jun 21, 2006
- 6,382
- 1,338
The bus that is supposed to be taking them will be suffering from the following every week
Monday would be engine failure, Tuesday would be engine oil leak, Wednesday would be missing a tire, Thursday would be reported stolen, Friday would be bus recovered with windshield missing. by the time the bus is repaired they would be recalled.
Depending on your perspective, this upcoming California road swing is coming at the best time....or the worst time.
Three 'winnable games' against the lowly Sharks and Ducks; and a wrap-up against the Kings. A 2-1 record is the bare minimum imo. Anything less, and the worry beads will be out in earnest.
Three 'winnable games' against the lowly Sharks and Ducks; and a wrap-up against the Kings. A 2-1 record is the bare minimum imo. Anything less, and the worry beads will be out in earnest.
Stupid and silly question...but let's say we still had Loui on the team. Could we keep on sending him down as well to accrue cap space? I mean no one is taking him off waivers and we would love it if someone did. I'm probably missing some big caveat here.
Benning would never have been willing to do that with Eriksson......sending a high-priced UFA to the minors is something he just couldn't bring himself to do, not matter the provocation.
The problem is if you send a prominent UFA down--even if it's only a 'paper transaction' , he still has to be placed on waivers. And it could really impact you down the road in terms of attracting other UFA's to your franchise.
It's usually preferable to pump up a guy's injury status--and then stick him on LTIR like they do in Vegas.
yeah but you'd only clear the league min plus $375k in cap (prorated per day, like usual)
You wouldn’t gain any space by doing that because when he’s in the AHL, you only clear about 1.1m of his 6m cap hit. Left with basically 5m in dead cap.
rypper
21-12-05 it's finally over.
- Dec 22, 2006
- 17,114
- 21,823
Loui had a NMC for at least part of his contract that would prevent that.
I’m not sold on this team, I would be disappointed if we started trading 1st rounders and top prospects to give this team a boost.
That wasn’t much of a win streak… it was against bottom feeder teams. The Panthers had their top line sitting out and we could barely beat them.
Diamonddog01
Diamond in the rough
My view is the Petterson trade chatter will age about as poorly as the Miller trade chatter (of which I was also guilty of). That being said - no way we would get a player like Carlsson at this point, nor would it make any sense for Anaheim to do that.
The team that probably would make the most sense is...the Minnesota Wild. 13M coming off the books with the Suter and Parise buyouts and are entering a contention window. They wouldn't trade Eriksson Ek and no interest in Rossi personally so not sure what a trade would like look like.
The team that probably would make the most sense is...the Minnesota Wild. 13M coming off the books with the Suter and Parise buyouts and are entering a contention window. They wouldn't trade Eriksson Ek and no interest in Rossi personally so not sure what a trade would like look like.
