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[credulous]

I think they did try to get Guentzel to fill the top line forward role, but after Tampa snatched him up, Allvin had to pivot to plan B, which is add depth. They clearly wanted to get Petey a winger, and when the best one is off the table (Guentzel), they settled for the (in their opinion) 2nd best fit in Debrusk.

Also, I don't think there were any defenseman capable of carrying a second pair available in the summer, or am I forgetting someone? Who was available, and if he is not UFA, what would it cost in terms of assets?

i realize you can't just get whoever you want and players have preferences. i'm not slighting management for not signing guentzel. he's just an example of how they should be trying to allocate cap

i think rather than sign debrusk and heinen to term they should have looked for cheaper options and kept their cap space available to go big game hunting at the deadline. vegas have added hertl, barbashev and hanifin over the last two deadlines without giving up much more than picks. vancouver added hronek themselves so they should know it's possible to land key players and keep them

 

[pitseleh]

it's very frustrating that they've committed significant cap (and term) to pieces like debrusk, heinen and myers who really don't fill key roles on the team. they've overinvested in middle six wingers and bottom pairing defenseman at the expense of a real top line forward or someone who can carry a second pairing

Yeah. There haven’t been a ton of options available but in hindsight choosing to go after Lindholm rather than Hanifin / Guentzel looks like a mistake, as the latter two would have been worth re-signing, and they would have had a leg up. Not sure if Hanifin would have re-signed here but from what we heard about Guentzel it seems they would have had a good shot.

There’s a path to a competitive team through strong depth - Carolina seems to make it work with a few top end players and no holes - but I think it’s more likely to work if you have a strong defence.

I think they did try to get Guentzel to fill the top line forward role, but after Tampa snatched him up, Allvin had to pivot to plan B, which is add depth. They clearly wanted to get Petey a winger, and when the best one is off the table (Guentzel), they settled for the (in their opinion) 2nd best fit in Debrusk.

Also, I don't think there were any defenseman capable of carrying a second pair available in the summer, or am I forgetting someone? Who was available, and if he is not UFA, what would it cost in terms of assets?

Matt Roy was the best of the lot during the offseason. But that ship probably sailed with Myers re-signing, especially with Willander coming up.

Passing on Sanheim a couple offseason ago still feels like the biggest miss.

 

[Rowlet]

Some Isles fans saying Dobson might be available... which would be a dream come true.

Top 5 RD, 24 years old, one of the few players I'd drastically overpay for.

 

[arttk]

Yeah. There haven’t been a ton of options available but in hindsight choosing to go after Lindholm rather than Hanifin / Guentzel looks like a mistake, as the latter two would have been worth re-signing, and they would have had a leg up. Not sure if Hanifin would have re-signed here but from what we heard about Guentzel it seems they would have had a good shot.

There’s a path to a competitive team through strong depth - Carolina seems to make it work with a few top end players and no holes - but I think it’s more likely to work if you have a strong defence.

Matt Roy was the best of the lot during the offseason. But that ship probably sailed with Myers re-signing, especially with Willander coming up.

Passing on Sanheim a couple offseason ago still feels like the biggest miss.

Guentzel wasn’t on the market when they went in. Holding out and hope he hits the trade market might’ve been too risky and against this management group’s ethos.

 

[Vector]

Passing on Sanheim a couple offseason ago still feels like the biggest miss.

This is the name I keep coming back to. Even then, a couple of years ago the team was in complete turmoil and still evaluating where they were at. Even only signing one of Desharnais or Forbort would have had the Canucks in a much better cap situation this season and the defence wouldn't have been any worse.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Some Isles fans saying Dobson might be available... which would be a dream come true.

Top 5 RD, 24 years old, one of the few players I'd drastically overpay for.

I saw some of this talk on the main boards. I’d sooner send Hronek the other way without question if they have a bit of Yzermanitis and don’t want to pay their top guy top money.

But since it’s Lou we’re talking about that case is moot.

 

[credulous]

This is the name I keep coming back to. Even then, a couple of years ago the team was in complete turmoil and still evaluating where they were at. Even only signing one of Desharnais or Forbort would have had the Canucks in a much better cap situation this season and the defence wouldn't have been any worse.

yeah none of the signings are outright bad to the point they really hurt the team (well, debrusk is tbd) but in the aggregate they mean adding a high price tag player will be very difficult without sacrificing

 

[pitseleh]

Guentzel wasn’t on the market when they went in. Holding out and hope he hits the trade market might’ve been too risky and against this management group’s ethos.

Guentzel was pretty clearly going to be traded. It was reported at then time they decided to prioritize a centre after their pro scouting meetings so went with Lindholm.

 

[Vector]

Guentzel was pretty clearly going to be traded. It was reported at then time they decided to prioritize a centre after their pro scouting meetings so went with Lindholm.

The Guentzel saga last year was weird. It was reported they weren't talking contract and were clearly going to trade him but wouldn't actually take calls on him. Then he got injured. Came back and still wouldn't take calls. Then decided to trade him at the last moment. It was obvious the entire season that if they weren't going to re-sign him he was getting traded but didn't actually put him on the market until too late.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

i realize you can't just get whoever you want and players have preferences. i'm not slighting management for not signing guentzel. he's just an example of how they should be trying to allocate cap

i think rather than sign debrusk and heinen to term they should have looked for cheaper options and kept their cap space available to go big game hunting at the deadline. vegas have added hertl, barbashev and hanifin over the last two deadlines without giving up much more than picks. vancouver added hronek themselves so they should know it's possible to land key players and keep them

I don't disagree with this route, but I think Allvin and JR really really want to get Petey a winger for this season. I think they know they can't go into the season and play 50ish games without giving Petey a legit top 6 winger. In hindsight it might make more sense to plug in Garland and Hoglander/Joshua on Petey's wing and save the money for a bigger upgrade, but that might've put the team in a bad spot for the first half of the season and management probably don't want to risk being outside of the playoff race by the TDL.

Yeah. There haven’t been a ton of options available but in hindsight choosing to go after Lindholm rather than Hanifin / Guentzel looks like a mistake, as the latter two would have been worth re-signing, and they would have had a leg up. Not sure if Hanifin would have re-signed here but from what we heard about Guentzel it seems they would have had a good shot.

There’s a path to a competitive team through strong depth - Carolina seems to make it work with a few top end players and no holes - but I think it’s more likely to work if you have a strong defence.

Matt Roy was the best of the lot during the offseason. But that ship probably sailed with Myers re-signing, especially with Willander coming up.

Passing on Sanheim a couple offseason ago still feels like the biggest miss.

When Sanheim was available, he was a struggling player on a $6m cap hit, it would've been a crazy gamble to take. Also I think we still have the full OEL cap on the book at that time?

Some Isles fans saying Dobson might be available... which would be a dream come true.

Top 5 RD, 24 years old, one of the few players I'd drastically overpay for.

Dobson isn't available, and if he is (not a chance), we'll be easily outbid by other teams with more and better assets. Dobson will also be commending a huge raise this coming summer, I'm not sure we can fit him in anywhere near his ask (probably $9m+).

 

[God]

Did we even have anybody to trade for Sanheim? He was getting dealt with Hayes for Krug and a 1st right? We had zero cap space to fit both.

 

[Vector]

Did we even have anybody to trade for Sanheim? He was getting dealt with Hayes for Krug and a 1st right? We had zero cap space to fit both.

Boeser at the time but I don't think either team wanted to touch the other's problem.

 

[pitseleh]

Did we even have anybody to trade for Sanheim? He was getting dealt with Hayes for Krug and a 1st right? We had zero cap space to fit both.

Hayes was traded for a sixth so had (very slightly) positive value. Sanheim for Myers and a 1st would have been less dead money for Philly than Krug.

 

[StreetHawk]

Dobson isn't available, and if he is (not a chance), we'll be easily outbid by other teams with more and better assets. Dobson will also be commending a huge raise this coming summer, I'm not sure we can fit him in anywhere near his ask (probably $9m+).

Can't see it. Isles, if season goes south, will unload Nelson/Palmeri at the TDL. Might even retain on PGP to get off the final year of his deal. But, they are kind of mid. No kids coming up and some established 30 something vets with just a couple of 20 somethings that are good.

Not unlike the Canucks, except the Canucks have more higher end talent and their group is a little younger. Limited cap room, draft capital, prospects right now.

 

[God]

Hayes was traded for a sixth so had (very slightly) positive value. Sanheim for Myers and a 1st would have been less dead money for Philly than Krug.

Philly wouldn't have wanted Myers as trading Sanheim and Provorov in one season would've reduced a lot of puck moving ability from the back (hence Krug)... and I don't think Vancouver wanted to trade Myers either.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Actually, in regards to Dobson, I wonder if there is a way to make a huge deal involving 2 struggling 1C's that need a change of scenery?

This is fantasy land but what about something like:
To Vancouver: Dobson + Barzal
To NYI: Petterson + Garland + Desharnais + Willander

Assuming Dobson gets $9m for his next contract, the salary is about even ($400k more going to NYI). Barzal has really struggled offensively again this season, him and Petey can both benefit from a change. With Dobson coming in, we can afford to move Willander (not that I want to move him but you have to give something of value back). Sucks to lose Garland but its the only way to make the cap works. Its probably a bad look to sign Desharnais and trade him 10 games in but again, has to be done to make the cap works.

Would anybody do this deal?

 

[pitseleh]

Philly wouldn't have wanted Myers as trading Sanheim and Provorov in one season would've reduced a lot of puck moving ability from the back (hence Krug)... and I don't think Vancouver wanted to trade Myers either.

They were clearly just looking to get money off their books and to buy picks. Krug was coming off an awful season and was probably one of the worst contracts in the league. Dreger also reported that summer that Philly had been trying to convince the Canucks to take Sanheim (I believe for a first and a contract) but the Canucks turned them down. They may not have wanted to trade Myers but think they were nuts not to.

 

[Big zZz]

Some Isles fans saying Dobson might be available... which would be a dream come true.

Top 5 RD, 24 years old, one of the few players I'd drastically overpay for.

Man I'd trade lekk and a boat load of picks in a heart beat.

 

[Hodgy]

If Dobson was actually available, which I doubt, then I'd tell the Islanders they can have our first in 2025 and whatever two players they want that are currently not in the NHL. They'd probably be looking for a roster player though.

 

[StickShift]

Yeah. There haven’t been a ton of options available but in hindsight choosing to go after Lindholm rather than Hanifin / Guentzel looks like a mistake, as the latter two would have been worth re-signing, and they would have had a leg up. Not sure if Hanifin would have re-signed here but from what we heard about Guentzel it seems they would have had a good shot

I think a major consideration for acquiring Lindholm was the scenario where they trade Pettersson. If they had to trade him because he wouldn’t sign—there was no guarantee that they would get a comparable center back in such a trade. This was getting ahead of that possibility.

I speculate even further that once they had Lindholm—they were actively considering Pettersson for a player like Necas AND using the acquired cap space to try and trade/extend Guentzel too.

I think they had a vision of:

Suter-Miller-Boeser​

Guentzel-Lindholm-Necas​

Joshua-Blueger-Garland​

But Pettersson’s extension changed everything. They thought that a signed Petey would be back at his A-game.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Plus one of the few teams that will actively sell players off. Although I do think they'll only trade one of their three veteran defencemen signed for next season (Walman, Ferraro, and Benning).

Damn you.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1851757239448572367

 

[Donuts]

barzal and dobson for Desharnais + EP +

ayyyy

 

[VanJack]

Some Isles fans saying Dobson might be available... which would be a dream come true.

Top 5 RD, 24 years old, one of the few players I'd drastically overpay for.

Dobson is one of a host of Islanders veterans who are seriously struggling in the early going. His last couple of outings against the Panthers and Ducks, were borderline terrible.

But he's too good a player to remain in a funk for very long. And there's not a chance in the world Lamoriello would ever trade him, unless they resolve to start a tear-down and a total rebuild.

 

[credulous]

Damn you.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1851757239448572367

this makes the maata trade look so much worse

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Isles should put Lu down before they trade Dobson.

If he's available, you throw the kitchen sink at them. But so too will basically every other team.

I like the Lilly deal for TO. Maybe that frees SJ up to trade one of their dmen.