Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Christmas Presents

[vancityluongo]

just for shits: what would you guys think about something around byram for demko

injury risk for injury risk

 

[MS]

I think I devalue Byram due to his concussions more than others.

He’s been fully healthy for a couple years now.

If we gave up Willander for him, sure. But Hoglander and picks? There’s not much risk there, to me.

 

[JT Milker]

just for shits: what would you guys think about something around byram for demko

injury risk for injury risk

This is probably a more interesting proposal. I could be wrong but I don’t think Buffalo is interested in Hoglander and futures.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

If we are trading with the Sabres, I hope/wish we can land McLeod as part of the deal. A 25 years old fast skating defensively responsible 3C would solidify that position for the foreseeable future.

He is actually the player I'm most interested from Buffalo (at least as a realistic target, no way they trade Dahlin or Thompson). Not at all interested in Cozens. Byram and Tuch would be good depending on the acquisition cost and their next contract. I don't think Buffalo is shopping McLeod, but I don't mind overpaying them a little bit to get it done.

 

[racerjoe]

Maybe I am miss remembering, but how often have we traded for a guy being talked about? I kind of think we will trade for a guy we don’t see coming, like the Hronek deal, or he’ll even the Lindholm deal was kind of out of the blue.

 

[Hodgy]

Dahlin is having a Hughes-like effect on Buffalo though. Byram’s running a score adjusted 57% with Dahlin, but only 47% without him, while Dahlin is at 61% without Byram.

That said, Hoglander, a first and a second is not much to give up and value-wise is good enough that you probably pull the trigger. The biggest issue is the opportunity cost of using those assets for Byram instead of a player who is a more sure-fire bet to help this year’s team.

On the flipside though, Byram is 23 years old and won't be 24 until the summer. He's a player you can expect to continue to improve, and may actually improve significantly.

 

[Rowlet]

Hopefully we see something today or tomorrow

 

[Hodgy]

He’s been fully healthy for a couple years now.

If we gave up Willander for him, sure. But Hoglander and picks? There’s not much risk there, to me.

What are the chances that Willander develops in the same manner that Byram has developed thus far ? To put it another way, what are the chances that Willander, at 23, is as valuable as Byram currently is at 23? And what are the chances that Willander is more valuable than Byram when each are age 28 for example?

I know people love Willander on here, and I haven't watched him in the NCAA so can't comment, but it needs to be recognized there is still a decent chance he busts or doesn't come anywhere close to providing the value everyone is anticipating.

 

[TruGr1t]

 

[racerjoe]

What are the chances that Willander develops in the same manner that Byram has developed thus far ? To put it another way, what are the chances that Willander, at 23, is as valuable as Byram currently is at 23? And what are the chances that Willander is more valuable than Byram when each are age 28 for example?

I know people love Willander on here, and I haven't watched him in the NCAA so can't comment, but it needs to be recognized there is still a decent chance he busts or doesn't come anywhere close to providing the value everyone is anticipating.

It’s really tough, because I see Willander closer to a Tanev type who is way u Der valued, but you need to win… so valued via trade, or contract probably not much, but valued to win…. More.

 

[Deeds26]

Doing my best Vector impression
- Canucks aggressive, looking for a winger/defence, Dhali thinking the winger is interesting and could be a replacement for Boeser if things were to go south there. Sounds like either extension or trade at deadline with Boeser.

- Agent told Dhali: Good luck getting at top 4 D, teams aren't selling just yet. Teams want top prospects and high picks, so price is high.

- Provorov/Byram: Do Canucks acquire a UFA like Provorov, just like Lindholm/Zadorov, not likely, looking for guys with term or RFA like Byram.

- Boeser talk: Working at it, trying their hardest but tough contract. Are the Canucks willing to give 8/8 to him? End of contract is worrysome with foot speed when Boeser ages.

- Hoglander only 7 minutes against Colorado, Tocchet does not like him it seems. Don says a bizarre extension and Dhali says to move on from him. Dhali wonders why Alvin give him a 3 year deal, did he even talk to Tocc?

 

[wonton15]

Dylan Coghlan on waivers. Big right shot D from Duncan. I wanted him a few years ago but I don’t think he’s better than Juulsen

 

[LemonSauceD]

yeah i agree with dhali there. extending hoglander was a terrible mistake if coach and player weren't on the same page.

 

[Jerry the great]

This is probably a more interesting proposal. I could be wrong but I don’t think Buffalo is interested in Hoglander and futures.

that may be true, but picks will always have a certain appeal just due to their liquidity/reserve currency status. Alvin clearly wanted a RHD in the Horvat deal, but he took the best deal he could at the time and then waited for the best deal he could find on a young RHD.

 

[Vector]

Tocchet elevated Hoglander to a top-6 role last season & the beginning of this one and praised him extensively during the pre-season. Canucks thought he was turning the corner.

 

[Russian_fanatic]

yeah i agree with dhali there. extending hoglander was a terrible mistake if coach and player weren't on the same page.

Thing is the Hoglander is playing nothing like he did last season.

Hoglander was a pest, forechecking, scoring goals, and making things happen. He was getting Hansen comparisions. He played up and down the line up to perfection. He had a 2:1 take away to turnover ratio, which was fantastic, this season he has more turnovers than takeaways. The Hoglander this season is floating out there.

Hoglander started the year out fine. 17 hits(he had 100 last season), 5 points in his first 10 games. Since then he has gone pointless in his last 20 games, and only mustering 17 hits. This isn't a skill issue, it's an effort issue. Shit like that doesn't fly with Tocc.

 

[Wisp]

It’s really tough, because I see Willander closer to a Tanev type who is way u Der valued, but you need to win… so valued via trade, or contract probably not much, but valued to win…. More.

there's no such thing as a tanev type. there is no other defensemen in this mold.

 

[MS]

What are the chances that Willander develops in the same manner that Byram has developed thus far ? To put it another way, what are the chances that Willander, at 23, is as valuable as Byram currently is at 23? And what are the chances that Willander is more valuable than Byram when each are age 28 for example?

I know people love Willander on here, and I haven't watched him in the NCAA so can't comment, but it needs to be recognized there is still a decent chance he busts or doesn't come anywhere close to providing the value everyone is anticipating.

The two issues would be losing the ELC years on Willander and the concussion risk on Byram.

 

[RobsonStreet]

His 'pre-concussion' results were also in a 30-game sample size of the softest/fewest minutes he's received in his career.

I don't see the red flags. He's pulling positive goal differentials this year and a positive Corsi from 23 minutes/game of mid-leverage on that Buffalo tire fire with a PDO of 100.

It depends on how we rate the impact of Rasmus Dahlin and (to a lesser extent) Owen Power and how much we buy into the with/without you data. I don’t know what to think.

Byram with Dahlin is +7 in goal differential, 57% Corsi, PDO of 104 in about 220 minutes

Byram with Power is +3 in goals, 51% Corsi, PDO of 107 in about 180 minutes

Byram apart is -5 in goals, 44% Corsi, PDO of .970 in about 200 minutes

Neither Dahlin nor Power see the same swings when apart from Byram.

 

[credulous]

Dylan Coghlan on waivers. Big right shot D from Duncan. I wanted him a few years ago but I don’t think he’s better than Juulsen

i think he's worth a look but yeah, probably not really an upgrade on juulsen

 

[Tact]

Hoglander was healthy scratched in the playoffs but then had a great summer and went into training camp in excellent condition.

So Tocchet must of been on board in some way regarding contract extension.

 

[Hodgy]

The two issues would be losing the ELC years on Willander and the concussion risk on Byram.

Doesn't really answer my question though, although I acknowledge both.

But the ELC years may or may not provide much value, and as you know and have stated in the past, ELCs rarely provide much value to contenders.

And in Willander's case, he's likely to burn one year this year and he may only be a depth defensemen. Next year he may be a bottom pairing defensemen? And perhaps a second pairing defensemenin the third year? So if all things going reasonably well and he's a second pairing defensemen in 2026-27, then we are really only getting cap savings of a few million dollars or whatever in 2026-27.

 

[valkynax]

Doing my best Vector impression
- Canucks aggressive, looking for a winger/defence, Dhali thinking the winger is interesting and could be a replacement for Boeser if things were to go south there. Sounds like either extension or trade at deadline with Boeser.

- Agent told Dhali: Good luck getting at top 4 D, teams aren't selling just yet. Teams want top prospects and high picks, so price is high.

- Provorov/Byram: Do Canucks acquire a UFA like Provorov, just like Lindholm/Zadorov, not likely, looking for guys with term or RFA like Byram.

- Boeser talk: Working at it, trying their hardest but tough contract. Are the Canucks willing to give 8/8 to him? End of contract is worrysome with foot speed when Boeser ages.

- Hoglander only 7 minutes against Colorado, Tocchet does not like him it seems. Don says a bizarre extension and Dhali says to move on from him. Dhali wonders why Alvin give him a 3 year deal, did he even talk to Tocc?

If it was not clear already I'll just make it official: Vector is Lyle Lanley.

 

[Jerry the great]

Doesn't really answer my question though, although I acknowledge both.

But the ELC years may or may not provide much value, and as you know and have stated in the past, ELCs rarely provide much value to contenders.

And in Willander's case, he's likely to burn one year this year and he may only be a depth defensemen. Next year he may be a bottom pairing defensemen? And perhaps a second pairing defensemenin the third year? So if all things going reasonably well and he's a second pairing defensemen in 2026-27, then we are really only getting cap savings of a few million dollars or whatever in 2026-27.

If he has top 4 impact, from a bottom pair deployment, he's going to be worth a ton to our game and likely won't generate the numbers he would need to get a big contract coming off his ELC.

Brock Faber (similar skill set) got paid because he went from the NCAA to playing 25min/g beside Brodin and put up a ton of points at ES.

Hughes Hronek
Byram Myers
Soucy Willander

 

[Ernie]

Tocchet elevated Hoglander to a top-6 role last season & the beginning of this one and praised him extensively during the pre-season. Canucks thought he was turning the corner.

Really unfortunate season. Previous to this season he's always generated chances in the offensive zone despite his defensive issues. This season even that has mostly dried up.