Gretzky's Difficulties In Scoring Goals Against Good Defenses, After The Mid-1980s.

[buffalowing88]

Just to clarify, this forum Is designed for discussion but if you try and discuss something against the consensus, it's wrong?

 

[Michael Farkas]

But you did say that in your original comment, where you stated that Gretzky was never once the best scorer at any point in his career.

That is quite the statement and you should probably do more work to show how you conclude that.

Did I? I have two posts in this particular thread. One says, "anyone can count" and the other one says, "counting isn't talent evaluation, even if the count is high".

 

[McPoyle]

Did I? I have two posts in this particular thread. One says, "anyone can count" and the other one says, "counting isn't talent evaluation, even if the count is high".

Ah sorry, I mixed up your comments with another who was responding to me.

 

[Minar]

He simply became more focused on playmaking as he got older. When he was a young gun he was going to the net alot more. He mellowed with age probably to self preserve, amd focused more and more playmaking which was his biggest strength.

 

[Dallas Winston]

Slap shots from the blue line stopped going in 85% of the time

 

[Sheppy]

I also think it helped that the goalies weren't all 5'7'' as well. Seemed like being 6 foot in the 80's put you at giant status.

 

[The Panther]

I also think it helped that the goalies weren't all 5'7'' as well. Seemed like being 6 foot in the 80's put you at giant status.

One thing I could never figure out was why goalies were generally short-to-mid-sized in the 1970s-to-mid(?)-1980s. But I guess it was just hard to find big men who had the reflexes to play goal. There was Pete Peeters and Ron Hextall... any other biggies?

But, you know, did size of goalies really affect Gretzky much? I would say no. From 1988-89 to 1990-91, his shooting percentage is still higher than Fleury, Sakic, Lafontaine, Yzerman, etc, and equal to Brett Hull's.

 

[MadLuke]

any other biggies?

Dryden ?

 

[Michael Farkas]

Liut

 

[Staniowski]

Slap shots from the blue line stopped going in 85% of the time

Gretzky wasn't taking many slappers from the business anyway. Most of his slapshots were from the slot. He'd walk in pretty close and take the big windup.

He simply became more focused on playmaking as he got older. When he was a young gun he was going to the net alot more. He mellowed with age probably to self preserve, amd focused more and more playmaking which was his biggest strength.

He went to the net when he was younger because it was easier to do so in the early '80s. More time and space.

 

[Staniowski]

Ah yes, another round of the league somehow got better the instant Lemieux was drafted argument...

The league got better over a period of many years. Defense really started to significantly improve around the mid-'80s. It didn't become great all at once, but it continued to improve for the next decade.

 

[authentic]

The knee injury in 1987 is a big part of the decrease. It impacted his edge work and ability to drive the net.

He still lead the league in goals in 1986-87. When he got hurt in 1987-88 he was 1 goal behind Lemieux for lead and on pace for 63 goals.

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He only scored 10 goals on his last 26 games post return (32 goal pace).

He basically lost 10 goals/season with that injury. He had played at a ~62 goal pace for 110ish games, then instantly became a ~51 goal pace guy for the next 110ish games.

The 1991 Suter hit rightfully gets blamed for abruptly ending his prime. But the 1987 knee injury is the second most impactful of his career.

Did this knee injury take place before or after the 1987 Canada Cup?

 

[authentic]

This is a fact that gretzky fans like to throw in the rug. While lemieux was scoring 69 in 70 in similar scoring leagues as today. I think with the time the truth will come out

I have always trusted what I saw with my own eyes. The main reason I believe Gretzky did not appear as good as Lemieux is simply because he wasn’t. He was more dominant against an inferior league and far more healthy. I don’t think there’s any chance prime Gretzky outscores a prime Lemieux in post 1995 NHL, goals or points.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

The league got better over a period of many years. Defense really started to significantly improve around the mid-'80s. It didn't become great all at once, but it continued to improve for the next decade.

The league has consistently gotten better over time in the sense that athletes overall have gotten better through better nutrition, more professional training regimes etc.

But you need to actually point at specifics to prove a large jump year to year though. Like I find it credible to say that expansion diluted the talented pool, I also find it credible to say that the influx of European (specifically Soviet bloc) talent post-1990 helped fill those holes in rosters again, I'll even buy that increased participation in the U.S. improved the talent pool from the mid 00s onward. But what exactly is supposed to have happened in the mid 1980s?