Gretzky as the Coyotes' Coach 2005-2009

[Pablo El Perro]

Pat Riley as well.

Riley wasn't a good player, really. Larry Brown had a better career as a player.

 

[Brodeur]

Across the four major sports, the best players I can think of who are / were good coaches are

Larry Bird
Don Mattingly
Doc Rivers
Rick Tocchet
Larry Robinson

It's kinda funny in retrospect, but Larry Robinson didn't love being a head coach. He was much happier being an assistant coach and just teaching players. Head coach has to be more of a disciplinarian and motivator which Larry admitted wasn't his strong suit. Larry had a rough go of it in his first head coaching gig with LA. The Devils got a bit lazy in 2001-02 which led to Larry being let go and then awkwardly he agreed to almost immediately come back as an assistant. Larry had a brief second stint as Devils head coach followed by another stint as an assistant.

 

[mouser]

I don’t think most people realize that Gretzky didn’t even try. He was rarely ever at practice, or with the team in general, and only showed up to “coach” the games.

Yup, well earned reputation as the first “country club” NHL head coach.

Frequently absent from practice, show up to “coach” game days.

 

[odin1981]

How many elite players in any sport became good coaches? Off the top of my head, only two come to mind.

Going way way back. I would say Bill Russell from basketball. He also won two finals in the NBA during the Celtics dynasty as a assistant coach and player at the time. But I agree that it is very rare.

 

[mouser]

His team sucked.
No other team ever offered him a coaching job other than the team he partially owned

And even more damning, the Coyotes replaced Gretzky with Dave Tippett in 2009—who then took the team to three straight playoff appearances, including a conference final with much of the same roster Gretzky “coached” to futility.

There was a popular narrative back in the day that it wasn’t Gretzky’s fault he failed as the Coyotes head coach because the team was so bad. Tippett killed that myth.

Tippett has his own coaching warts, but he was able to extract far more production from the Arizona roster than Gretzky ever came close to.

 

[Sniper99]

Bad coach and even worse Canadian.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

And even more damning, the Coyotes replaced Gretzky with Dave Tippett in 2009—who then took the team to three straight playoff appearances, including a conference final with much of the same roster Gretzky “coached” to futility.

There was a popular narrative back in the day that it wasn’t Gretzky’s fault he failed as the Coyotes head coach because the team was so bad. Tippett killed that myth.

Tippett has his own coaching warts, but he was able to extract far more production from the Arizona roster than Gretzky ever came close to.

This basically comes down to Tippett being an actual coach. Gretzky had no coaching experience and was in over his head.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Too Americanized

 

[Acallabeth]

Yeah, Olli Jokinen once explained this.
He was coached by the Great One, moving up the ice in practice, head on a swivel, looking to pass to a teammate.
Afterwards Gretzky asked him, why didn‘t pass to the 4th guy who just stepped on the ice and was out of sight, exactly behind him crossing the blue line.
“Coach, I didn’t see him, even if I tried.”
Gretzky looked puzzled…”Yeah, but didn’t you KNOW where he was?”
It was OJ’s turn to look puzzled. But at least he realised that Gretzky has an otherworldly vision and IQ.
You just can’t teach it. And if you are not able to understand the limitations of your players, you become a shitty coach.

I played hockey with a guy whose brother played for him. He said Gretzky would say to his brother (a fourth line mostly AHL guy) things about certain plays like “when that guy does this and the puck goes here you have to do this and go here” and his brother would basically be thinking “how the hell am i going to process all that that quick”. Basically Gretzky thought the game at too advanced a level for it to translate to normies.

While these anecdotes point towards a woeful lack of teaching skills, I think the concept that Gretzky couldn't comprehend his players' limitations is somewhat overblown. I'm sure he could figure out that he wasn't coaching a roster full of 200-point players

But I have said before that the NHL coaching doesn't seem to be very professional. To become a coach in European football, even superstars need to obtain a license, and a Pro license requires coaching experience in minor leagues. Even Zidane worked for Real Madrid for several years as the team's sporting director before becoming an assistant to a great manager Ancelotti, then coaching their minor team and eventually becoming the big team coach. Gretzky just stepped into the head coach role right away with no training (and, I suspect, having experienced little coaching as a player).

He couldn't relate to players if I had to guess, that's most elite level players who become coaches. There's more 4th liners + plugs who become better coaches than the elite talent that's played the game. You need to be relatable to the 13th forward as much as you are to the franchise forward.

I think there's more to it. Tampa's players doesn't seem to be bothered that Cooper wasn't even a pro player.
Maybe the reason for star players rarely becoming great coaches isn't the matter of them not being able to do so, but rather not having a need or desire to be a great coach. Stars are wealthy, successful and have a great reputation. Why would they keep making sacrifices for a new career that is stressful and very likely to tarnish their image?

 

[Voight]

Going way way back. I would say Bill Russell from basketball. He also won two finals in the NBA during the Celtics dynasty as a assistant coach and player at the time. But I agree that it is very rare.

Red was still pulling the strings then so even tho Russell was "head coach" he didn't have the same authority or power the other coaches had.

 

[SirKillalot]

And even more damning, the Coyotes replaced Gretzky with Dave Tippett in 2009—who then took the team to three straight playoff appearances, including a conference final with much of the same roster Gretzky “coached” to futility.

There was a popular narrative back in the day that it wasn’t Gretzky’s fault he failed as the Coyotes head coach because the team was so bad. Tippett killed that myth.

Tippett has his own coaching warts, but he was able to extract far more production from the Arizona roster than Gretzky ever came close to.

Well players developed over the tenure as well.

But, Arizona under Tippett even though made the playoffs weren't exactly "fun" to watch.

 

[Machinehead]

Same reason a lot of greats don't make good coaches. He read the game in a way that you could never translate to other people.

 

[Deux de Coeurs]

Georges Laraque host a radio show in Quebec, he talked about that few years ago. Said when Gretz was coach it was a total country club, guys were more interested in next the tee time than the games.

 

[Foppberg]

Truth hurts. f*** Wayne.

 

[mouser]

Also, FWIW, rumblings at the time were the Coyotes owner Jerry Moyes essentially forced Gretzky to stay as head coach to keep his lucrative private services contract with Moyes. It wasn't Gretzky's idea.

Moyes, like Gretzky, was also in over his head.

 

[daver]

I think he had issues with be able to read a room.

 

[Stringer Bell]

Dude has no Rizz. Stone cold as a block. Same reason why Crosby or McDavid would make terrible coaches.

Someone post a clip of his acting in that soap opera.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Well he had 0 coaching experience. It was his first coaching gig, and the first gig was Head Coach of an NHL team. He probably should've spent some time as an assistant or a junior coach first before jumping right into a head coaching job.

 

[johan f]

I do not think it had something to do with how he coached, tactics etc. More that he is not suited being in charge for people.

 

[bossram]

A lot people seem to think being a great player and great coach have overlapping skillsets. They really don't.

Gretzky had a level of hockey IQ and vision that no other player has. That can't be "coached". Gretzky was born with it. Other players do not have it. When the basis of how you play the game is something all your players can't understand, you're not going to be successful.

A lot of NHL coaches are ex-journeyman type pros. That makes intuitive sense to me. Those guys weren't especially talented. They only way they were going to make it was doing what the coach tells them, understanding the systems thoroughly, and executing them. Things that you would want your players doing as a coach.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The idea that somebody with zero coaching experience at any level is the right person to be the head coach of an NHL team because he was a great player is pure folly. They're different things.

 

[Slapshot Sultan]

He was telling players to make plays that only he could make

 

[RickyLafleur]

most great coaches were fringe NHLrs, or didnt even quite make it.

Id say that those guys would likely largely be star centers as kids, 2nd liners as juniors, and role players in the league they got to. They would have run the gamut, able to relate to any player.

Superstars only ever do superstar things. And they cant relate to what normal people struggle with.

Gretzky isnt the only example of a superstar player who didnt make it as a coach

in fact.... i cant think of one.

Patrick Roy, Rod Brindamour & MSL aren't too bad albeit no cups as coaches so far.

 

[surixon]

I have to wonder if it's more due to the fact that superstars have generally made a crap tonne of cash over their careers and might be far less inclined to put in the leg work to become a good NHL coach. That usually involves riding the busses as a junior coach and then applying your trade in the AHL.

To me it seems the preferred role of the superstar these days is to take a management role and grow into a hockey opps role that way. That way they avoid riding the busses.

 

[Stive Morgan]

Don’t think it has anything to do with “being too good so he can’t explain it to the players”. He just sucked at teaching. Being good at something and being good at coaching or teaching it are completely different and completely unrelated skills.

I agree. I had a professor in college who was one of the most intelligent people I've ever met, but man, did he ever suck at lecturing/teaching. But it wasn't because he was "too smart," it was because he spoke like Ben Stein and refused to follow-up on further questions.